Reverting back to Original Rule 21

[Arckas]

Player reports (from what I've seen) has been a bottleneck for people to get reported for, warned, and even banned from. After rule 21 was implemented, people had complained and it was agreed that a few exceptions would be posted. Its become clear that with these amendments their are people abusing and/or borderline making their post valid enough to be considered.

I want to get an idea for what people believe should be done. Wether we should revert or keep the current rules. Getting rid of the rule entirely is out of the option as of right now, as that would allow people to post as they have done unwarranted.

[TwitchCattz]

I voted No, because some people actually have very valid points and should be able to freely express them, albeit in a more moderated way, rather than losing the ability to all together.

[Mroz4k]

The initial post about this done by me revealed people wanted this to be up to Trusted Users. I dissagree with that because sometimes, it was Trusted Users who acted like barbarians on the report.

Personally Id say allow posting of opinions but the quality needs to be at least medium, meaning they have to explain their reasoning behind the opinion, not just the opinion itself.

Sometimes a deduction made by a forumer may help solve the issue, cause Staff cant be perfect. Mistakes happen.

[deferentsheep]

I agree that, Rule 21 is good at preventing shitposts. But we really need hard crackdown on soft moderation, because it`s making a bad community for the Veteran Players who remember the old days.

Example, you ban alcohol in prohibitism (1700`s American Laws), people just buy alcohol on the "black market". It`s a similar situation like that except, Alcohol is instead posting on certain forums.

[gorilla578]

Example, you ban alcohol in prohibitism (1700`s American Laws), people just buy alcohol on the "black market". It`s a similar situation like that except, Alcohol is instead posting on certain forums.

Your history sucks.

I say it's a good rule to have right now. It's how the replies should be used instead of:

John: Reporting Jack for hacking finding out all the Mafia.
Jack: Lol it was obvious.
John: You were an Escort. How was it obvious. I shot you at night because I thought you were bussing the Mafia.
Jack: Your stupidity costed us the game. idiot casual.
Deleter: Keep crying John. Fucking subhuman.
John: Deleter, stop insulting me. You weren't in the game anyway.
Deleter: Just go die in a hole. You won't be missed for your obvious retardedness.
John: Just why are you like this?
Deleter: I'm a god.
SecondClass: Deleter trolling as usual.
Gobln: lelgiqerjgqierjgceur
Nellyfox: This thread is now locked. Waiting for Brandon to give his verdict.

When Trials is out, we won't need this subforum ever again.

[Nellyfox]

I like how I'm mentioned. <3

Sticking with the notification for now, it's still fairly new.

[Gobln]

my replies were way better, i only started spamming recently gorilla.

[NFaker]

There is usually nothing additional to be said on forum reports, so just not allowing posts would probably not change if the report is acted upon or not.
I think Shapesifters opinion on this would be quite valuable, if not the deciding factor, considering how he is the only one actually going through the forum reports.

[shapesifter13]

The initial post about this done by me revealed people wanted this to be up to Trusted Users. I dissagree with that because sometimes, it was Trusted Users who acted like barbarians on the report.

Personally Id say allow posting of opinions but the quality needs to be at least medium, meaning they have to explain their reasoning behind the opinion, not just the opinion itself.

Sometimes a deduction made by a forumer may help solve the issue, cause Staff cant be perfect. Mistakes happen.

I personally like this idea, but I would love to hear more suggestions as well.

[shelboo]

I wouldn't mind if it was just the moderators/person reporting/person being reported commenting. It's crazy the things people are saying under a lot of the reports recently made.
Everyone loves discussions but too many people go off in a whole different direction.

[CarmenK74]

John: Reporting Jack for hacking finding out all the Mafia.
Jack: Lol it was obvious.
John: You were an Escort. How was it obvious. I shot you at night because I thought you were bussing the Mafia.
Jack: Your stupidity costed us the game. idiot casual.
Deleter: Keep crying John. Fucking subhuman.
John: Deleter, stop insulting me. You weren't in the game anyway.
Deleter: Just go die in a hole. You won't be missed for your obvious retardedness.
John: Just why are you like this?
Deleter: I'm a god.
SecondClass: Deleter trolling as usual.
Gobln: lelgiqerjgqierjgceur
Nellyfox: This thread is now locked. Waiting for Brandon to give his verdict.

lmao this is spot on

OT, I don't know why someone with an informed, relevant opinion shouldn't be able to give her two cents on a report unrelated to her. I wouldn't mind limiting it to trusted users, though.

[orangeandblack5]

What is the difference between the current Rule 21 and the previous Rule 21?

[gorilla578]

What is the difference between the current Rule 21 and the previous Rule 21?

Original: You are not allowed to post in Appeals unless you hold a position of power or the one appealing said ban.

Current: Same thing but restrictions are added to Report Players board.

[NFaker]

What is the difference between the current Rule 21 and the previous Rule 21?

Original: You are not allowed to post in Appeals unless you hold a position of power or the one appealing said ban.

Current: Same thing but restrictions are added to Report Players board.

The Appeals section has never been open to anyone other than staff.
The difference is that 21 didn't include the exceptions: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=27635#p801464

With that said, here are acceptable reasons to post on reports:

You are reporting the same person someone else did. This is allowed for obvious reasons, we don't like duplicate threads for reports. It's just going to end up merged, anyway.
You are a witness and can verify if a report is truthful or false. More voices always help, and maybe if you know something not shown in the report you can clear up confusion in case someone is innocent. For example, someone suspects a vigilante who shot all their mafia was Skyping with one of them, but you were a Sheriff in that game that teamed with the Vigilante and gave them targets based on your night results.
You are the reported player. Always nice to see another side of the story.
You are verifying something as legal or not. Now I'd prefer if you left this one to the mods, but if you're here to just say something like "the admins have stated that you can't spam even as jester", that's acceptable.

[Mroz4k]

To be honest, Player Reports are not the only section that is met with this type of commenting and just general disrespect, the same can be seen in various depth around the whole Forums.

Its just more likely to happen on the Player Reports due to the nature of that whole sub-forum.

Actual fix to this issue, as well as this issue around the whole Forums, would be strictier approach from Global Moderators, who would be given new tools with which to punish people misbehaving.

As of right now, there is huge vacuum in the punishment sphere of Forums. The mildiest are PM warnings from the GMods, followed with the actual warning that displays on the status of a players as a number. Next punishment is ban from Forums.

Now, as you can see, this is quite insufficient. Banning is resolved for non-stop spammers and rulebreakers, and average Forum punk only gets warnings, but since those dont do anything, he is just continuing about his day, being a punk, getting unlimited amount of warnings.

Naturally, the incensives for these would require a lot of thought, as there is not too many things that can be done for incensive. I thought of few ideas, will create a separate thread on this.
_________
I say that all comments that are not strictly on topic and done with proffesional approach, regardless if its Trusted User, or person related to the Report in any way (reported player, reporter, withness...)
As I have mentioned, nobody is perfect, and if people were to be given ability to contribute to the report by pointing out aspects around it, there is way lesser chance of a mistake happening, in fact, if at least two people conpare the report the chance of mistake is almost zero.

Here is my opinion on what should be tolerated and what should not be tolerated in the Player Reports: Spoiler: This type of comment should be allowed:

As you can see on the screenshot two, reporting player (Potato) is clearly provoking the reported player (Apple) further, so its understandable that the reported Apple is offensive towards the reporting Potato. Based on screenshots 1 to 4, it seems that reported Apple is only reacting in such way towards the reporting player. Based on the story of reporting player, it seems that the reported Apple was actually not skype-cheating with other Mafia members, but revealed that the reporting Potato was Mafia through scumtelling, as it seems that the reported Apple didnt know any other Mafia member IGNs then the Potato. Despite being a role that is not investigative, it seems from the screenshot 5 that the Potato did a major game mistake - as you can see, they always end their sentences with : 3 which was also smiley present in Mafia Death Note (based on the story of Apple, defending the report against him). This on its own is good enough clue to suspect scumtelling was the reason behind this, I´d say.

Based on these screenshots, I doubt reported player was skype-cheating with another Mafia members and selling out Mafia. They simply revealed Potato through scum telling.
As for the accusation of strong language, it appears that Potato was rude as well and aggravated Apple with accusations of cheating, and overal rude manners.
However, this should be fairly obvious from the in-game chat log.

These type of comments should not be tolerated, and should be removed with initially PM warning from Mods, then warning from Mods if the person continuously comments in this way:

thank you for report.

This is game-throwing and will be bannable.

You suck, go fuck yourself for reporting me I did nothing wrong.

lol. (I shitpost all over because I am a punk and am untouchable, suck it.)

Today I had sandwich for lunch and a d*ck for supper.

Report accepted , the thread will be locked soon after. Thanks for reporting.

Personally, I´d say that all low quality posts, even if they are on topic, should be removed as well. Report Players should stay proffesional, and if you cant take time to make proffesional comment with pointing something out AND explaining your point, then you should not be posting at all.

Meaning only Medium and higher quality of posts should be tolerated, based on this comment quality ladder:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=28790#p835259

[Nellyfox]

Mroz all those "invalid" posts are already invalid.

[Mroz4k]

Mroz all those "invalid" posts are already invalid.

I realize that.

It was what I was suggesting, thats why I made the comment.
As of right now I dont have issue with invalid comments rule on Reports.