Slight change to Survivor

Leave your suggestions about the game here!

Slight change to Survivor

Postby Jesmurf » Fri May 16, 2014 4:16 pm

I like the survivor, or at least I like the idea of it. It's fun to have a neutral role that isn't causing chaos in any way, but purely on his own trying to survive. The problem with it is that it's too easy, no one has any reason to want you dead, and as soon as you announce you're survivor you usually have a problem-free game. After all, a survivor won't try to kill or bother anyone, and when you try to shoot it you even have a good chance of failing at it. The only time you're going to have a problem surviving is if the town doesn't believe you are a survivor, and this is rare and usually not backed up with evidence.

As such I feel like a slight change should be made, the goal and abilities could remain the same, but there should be some sort of reward for killing a survivor, or the survivor needs to be able to pose some sort of threat to the people in the game.

I think the reward might be something like giving 1 bulletproof vest to the person that takes out a survivor, and if the town lynches the survivor the survivor can choose someone to give a vest to, kinda like jester but with a vest instead of murder. If the survivor refuses to then a vest will be given to someone at random. Note that this doesn't completely make the survivor a target for everyone, because especially in late-game there might be only immune killing roles left that don't have need for an extra vest, or the town might prefer to have an extra vote to lynch an evildoer then they want to lynch a survivor for an extra vest.

If this reward is for some reason not in agreement with the creators then perhaps the survivor could pose a threat somehow. Because right now the survivor is the only role where right from the start you can state you are survivor, and it's not a bad move by any means. Everyone else will have a reason to not state their role for fear of their own life, but the irony of survivor is that he's the only role that no one has any business in killing, taking out all the challenge of winning as survivor. I guess what I'm saying is that really all that needs to change is the survivor being able to simply state that he's a survivor. I gave an option for that in the comment up here, but maybe someone else has a better suggestion.

Let me know what you think.
Jesmurf
Amnesiac
Amnesiac
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:33 am

Re: Slight change to Survivor

Postby Dwern » Fri May 16, 2014 9:46 pm

The survivor IS infact a neutral role, and no one has any reason to kill it. But at the same time, it is purely random whether he is chosen or not. Not every person who claims survivor is infact a survivor.

Also, if i hang you forcefully and end your life, will you be thankful, even though you wanted to survive, and out of happiness and thankfulness, you give me a vest? If you aren't some kind of good-willed philanthropist, that's the most absurd thing I've ever heard.

Posing a threat is one way, but it doesn't fit the name "survivor".
Also the lynch + giving vest is flawed since if an inv finds the survivor, they will lynch him on purpose, and it might happen a LOT of times. Trust me, you'd be depressed if I told you how many selfish people I run into in-game.

Overall survivor is a pretty good role, since it does give a more realistic feel to the game. Not to mention the tactical thinking of WHEN to use a vest? Will you use it first night? Will you use it the night after you told everyone you were survivor? will they test if you are by killing you? will they wait the first 3 nights for you to use up your vests? etc etc
I generally go by "Dwern" in games too. So say Hi if you see me ^_^

Image
User avatar
Dwern
Medium
Medium
 
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:15 am
Location: Behind your Toilet Paper

Re: Slight change to Survivor

Postby UnknownFox » Fri May 16, 2014 10:58 pm

Perhaps the vest could be rewarded between those who vote Innocent, much in the way the Jester only punishes those who vote guilty?
User avatar
UnknownFox
Civilian
Civilian
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 10:25 pm

Re: Slight change to Survivor

Postby Dwern » Sat May 17, 2014 12:49 am

UnknownFox wrote:Perhaps the vest could be rewarded between those who vote Innocent, much in the way the Jester only punishes those who vote guilty?


That could be a possibility, but would you rather punish the guilty or reward the innocent?

I know which one I would pick :twisted:
I generally go by "Dwern" in games too. So say Hi if you see me ^_^

Image
User avatar
Dwern
Medium
Medium
 
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:15 am
Location: Behind your Toilet Paper

Re: Slight change to Survivor

Postby mouthyexpert » Sat May 17, 2014 8:50 pm

There...there are people who like survivor? Sorry, I think I need to lie down. The role adds literally nothing to a round, it just sits there and tries not to die. Boooriiing.

In other words, I am 100% on board with any suggestion that would make rounds with a survivor more exciting.
mouthyexpert
Spy
Spy
 
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:11 pm

Re: Slight change to Survivor

Postby Jesmurf » Sun May 18, 2014 11:10 am

Dwern wrote:The survivor IS infact a neutral role, and no one has any reason to kill it. But at the same time, it is purely random whether he is chosen or not. Not every person who claims survivor is infact a survivor.

It's not purely random if it can be seen on the role list, and usually evidence will be found quickly enough to prove whether someone is or isn't a survivor, and as soon as people believe you, the game is over, cause no one will ever attack you again.

Dwern wrote:Also, if i hang you forcefully and end your life, will you be thankful, even though you wanted to survive, and out of happiness and thankfulness, you give me a vest? If you aren't some kind of good-willed philanthropist, that's the most absurd thing I've ever heard.

It's not a thankfulness thing, it's a last thing the dead survivor can do to influence the game, if they don't feel like handing it out it will be taken by someone randomly or whoever decided to vote against them first.

Dwern wrote:Posing a threat is one way, but it doesn't fit the name "survivor".
Also the lynch + giving vest is flawed since if an inv finds the survivor, they will lynch him on purpose, and it might happen a LOT of times. Trust me, you'd be depressed if I told you how many selfish people I run into in-game.

It has nothing to do with selfishness, the whole point is that now people have a reason to want the survivor dead, as the problem with the current state of the survivor is that no one has a reason to have him dead. The fact that an investigator would find him and want to lynch him is exactly the sort of thing I want to happen, anything to pose some sort of threat against the easy win the survivor will get now.

Dwern wrote:Overall survivor is a pretty good role, since it does give a more realistic feel to the game. Not to mention the tactical thinking of WHEN to use a vest? Will you use it first night? Will you use it the night after you told everyone you were survivor? will they test if you are by killing you? will they wait the first 3 nights for you to use up your vests? etc etc

When to use the vest is indeed a point of strategy, but if people know for a fact that you're a survivor, they have no incentive to kill you anyway, so all need for strategy goes out the window at that point.
Jesmurf
Amnesiac
Amnesiac
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:33 am

Re: Slight change to Survivor

Postby Dwern » Sun May 18, 2014 9:28 pm

A serial killer is night immune, so he clearly can say he is a survivor.
The main point of a survivor is to bring in the "lie" factor. The jester in itself isn't too big of a threat. But the fact that such a role exists, opens up the opportunity to lie, or act like you are a jester, thus preventing your lynch. Similarly in the case of survivor. The fact that the role exists is in itself a beauty of lie and detection, as to WHO is the survivor and who isn't.

Remember, if the person himself says he is a survivor, he may/may not be lying. And if an INV finds out he is a survivor, why would he reveal it? Any investigator would find atleast ONE useful role before revealing that the person is mafiaso/god father etc etc. Why reveal your inv status just to say someone is survivor?

I, personally believe it is a balanced and fun role, and adds to variety in game :D
I generally go by "Dwern" in games too. So say Hi if you see me ^_^

Image
User avatar
Dwern
Medium
Medium
 
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:15 am
Location: Behind your Toilet Paper

Re: Slight change to Survivor

Postby mouthyexpert » Mon May 19, 2014 6:23 pm

When you claim to be a survivor, you're not trying to protect yourself from lynchings, you're trying to protect yourself from being murdered. There's no reason an investigator would need to corroborate it to begin with.

The fact remains that revealing yourself immediately and refusing to vote for anyone is probably the surest way to win as a survivor, and that's really dumb and boring. If you think playing a survivor is fun, you've got some weird ideas about what fun is.
mouthyexpert
Spy
Spy
 
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:11 pm

Re: Slight change to Survivor

Postby Dwern » Mon May 19, 2014 10:59 pm

mouthyexpert wrote:When you claim to be a survivor, you're not trying to protect yourself from lynchings, you're trying to protect yourself from being murdered. There's no reason an investigator would need to corroborate it to begin with.

The fact remains that revealing yourself immediately and refusing to vote for anyone is probably the surest way to win as a survivor, and that's really dumb and boring. If you think playing a survivor is fun, you've got some weird ideas about what fun is.


Really? What if I'm a serial killer and I say I'm a survivor?
If an inv doesn't double check, he's dumb :P
I generally go by "Dwern" in games too. So say Hi if you see me ^_^

Image
User avatar
Dwern
Medium
Medium
 
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:15 am
Location: Behind your Toilet Paper

Re: Slight change to Survivor

Postby TheThief » Mon May 19, 2014 11:04 pm

mouthyexpert wrote:When you claim to be a survivor, you're not trying to protect yourself from lynchings, you're trying to protect yourself from being murdered. There's no reason an investigator would need to corroborate it to begin with.

The fact remains that revealing yourself immediately and refusing to vote for anyone is probably the surest way to win as a survivor, and that's really dumb and boring. If you think playing a survivor is fun, you've got some weird ideas about what fun is.


YAY! I AM WEIRD! (I love using the survivor, so I have a weird idea of what fun is!) :lol: :twisted:
A gay man who appreciates the artistic value in innuendos and bad jokes.
User avatar
TheThief
[Forum Mafia II] Winner
[Forum Mafia II] Winner
 
Posts: 1783
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:02 pm
Location: Booped by Sombra

Re: Slight change to Survivor

Postby mouthyexpert » Tue May 20, 2014 9:43 am

Dwern wrote:If an inv doesn't double check, he's dumb :P

I said corroborate, not check.

Anyway, guess I'll bite. Thief, what exactly is so fun about playing a survivor?
mouthyexpert
Spy
Spy
 
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:11 pm

Re: Slight change to Survivor

Postby Jesmurf » Wed May 28, 2014 10:30 am

Sure a serial killer can lie that he's a survivor, but that only lasts for so long. I also don't like the idea of one role existing purely so another is more misleading. Being a jester is a challenge on its own, being a survivor isn't.
Jesmurf
Amnesiac
Amnesiac
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:33 am

Re: Slight change to Survivor

Postby TheBlitzBarker » Wed May 28, 2014 12:54 pm

You know, I'm just gonna say one thing. When I am known to be 100% survivor,I get lynched. That is all.
...and in the end...it all boils down to glue... Spoiler: Image Image
I am of the Order of Creation
My Role Ideas-If you dare...
User avatar
TheBlitzBarker
Bodyguard
Bodyguard
 
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:40 pm
Location: Tip of the Iceberg called insanity

Re: Slight change to Survivor

Postby TheBlitzBarker » Wed May 28, 2014 1:11 pm

kenshila wrote:I love the survivor tbh. I just find him NOT stressing ahaha. I can be anyone's ally, I can help the town, or give my vote to the mafia. I can point out the lies the mafia/SK tells or just cover them. It's another way to play the game. A really free way to play, you don't spend the night times stressing out wondering whether you're going to die or not, and that's a good thing lol.
I enjoy choosing my side, usually town, sometimes SK. It's all about guessing who's what, not in an aggressive I WANT TO KILL YOU way, just in a "oh, that lie isn't too bad, I might use it again next time" way. :) I just love it.

The survivor is my favourite role, and please don't change it. Survivor has to survive, just let him survive ahaha

Ditto
...and in the end...it all boils down to glue... Spoiler: Image Image
I am of the Order of Creation
My Role Ideas-If you dare...
User avatar
TheBlitzBarker
Bodyguard
Bodyguard
 
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:40 pm
Location: Tip of the Iceberg called insanity

Re: Slight change to Survivor

Postby Kaseda » Wed May 28, 2014 5:58 pm

The survivor is supposed to survive, but not kill. Since he isn't a threat, there is no reason to kill him. You aren't a target. Etc.
But, what if there was a reason to kill him? Because there is!
Because the survivor is such a threat-less target, and because no-one targets him, hes a perfect person to disguise as! Therefore, the mafia creates the survivor as a target. His innocence is exactly why you would want to kill him!
Image
User avatar
Kaseda
Spy
Spy
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 4:38 pm

Re: Slight change to Survivor

Postby Feallike » Thu May 29, 2014 8:15 am

Ok how about the Surviver has 1 Vest that will keep him alive 1 time, and once that is used up he can no longer give the vest to a different person.

So you have to lynch the survivor to even have a chance at the vest, and even then you have to vote innocent, and hope that the mafia, Arsonist, Vig, or SK doesn't attack him first so no one can get the vest.


Oooooorrrr, have it when the game gets down to 7 players, or after 5 nights the survivor becomes the Vigilante, Mafioso, or SK. dependent on the ratio of Towns vs Evils. If there is more evils he becomes SK, if there is more towns, he becomes Vigilante.

How SK and Mafioso works, the mafia has to be down 1 player for the Survivor to become the mafioso, if they are not he becomes a extra SK/Arsonist, If there is already a Vig, he becomes a extra Doctor.

It kinda helps his role since, you have to survive for atleast 5 nights before you can do anything, and your a possible threat to the Mafia or the Town, so your the prime target for the mafia, or the prime target for the Town.
Favorite roles: Serial killer, Veteran, and Jailor

Username Eren Jeager, Johan Leibert
User avatar
Feallike
Lookout
Lookout
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:51 pm


Return to Suggestions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests