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Re: Investigator List Overhaul

PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:08 pm
by Gobln
JammySplodge wrote:
orangeandblack5 wrote:Amnesiac,Transporter, Survivor - Your target avoids others. They must be an Amnesiac, Transporter, or Survivor.

I don't see how a transporter avoids others, they visit people

This is for balance, not lore.

Re: Investigator List Overhaul

PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:10 pm
by JazzMusicStops
I understand that it's for balance, I just feel like the actual dialogue should change

Re: Investigator List Overhaul

PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:11 pm
by PurpleSidewalk1
JammySplodge wrote:
orangeandblack5 wrote:Amnesiac,Transporter, Survivor - Your target avoids others. They must be an Amnesiac, Transporter, or Survivor.

I don't see how a transporter avoids others, they visit people

Maybe the Transporter is really lonely... you don't know his story, his life, YOU DON'T KNOW HIM!!! :lol:

Re: Investigator List Overhaul

PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:13 pm
by JazzMusicStops
I'll have you know the transporter and I go wayyyy back, he's a very social person

Re: Investigator List Overhaul

PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:29 pm
by orangeandblack5
Then what would you suggest?

Re: Investigator List Overhaul

PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:13 am
by K1llthestory
If BMer is able to hear whispers, keep him with spy.

If he isn't, keep him where he is.

I suggest making 2 separate ones for any given situation

Re: Investigator List Overhaul

PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:15 am
by Konsti90
I like the balance and that the invest can still figure out allies for 100% with this one, but i wouldnt state 3 mafs in the same, maybe just let the framer stay what it is, cause hes framer or framed right? But if u put other mafia in that line it gets more likely to get a bad guy and just lynch them. Maybe u could put the Forger to the medium/janitor thing and state it as "your target has a link to dead people they are Medium,Janitor or Forger" i know it puts the medium in a worser position it would just fit quite good i think and a med can still confirm his self when hes good and ppl didnt left.

And put the Jester to Survivor, Transporter and Amnesiac, it weakens the Jester a little i guess, but it buffs the Survivor (Suggestion 1). Maybe Jester is still good in the position u gave him and just change sentence in "your target has a link to dead people ... or not? they are Medium,Janitor, Forger or Jester ", well it fits the Jester :D. (Suggestion 2)

I would swap GF and Disguiser but more cause the statement fits better that way and not cause of balance reason, just personal liking.

Maybe switch Ret and Lookout, buffs the witch a little cause lookout is not as easy confirmed as Ret, but it would weaken the Arsonist/Blackmailer. It could be stated "your target works with complicated materials he is either Arsonist, Blackmailer or Retributionist" and the loner thingy stays like that. Not ideal just suggestion :)

Re: Investigator List Overhaul

PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:26 am
by K1llthestory
Survivor does not need a buff.

Jester results are fine.

Re: Investigator List Overhaul

PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:55 am
by orangeandblack5
K1llthestory wrote:If BMer is able to hear whispers, keep him with spy.

If he isn't, keep him where he is.

I suggest making 2 separate ones for any given situation

I'll probably make a second list (the "Blackmailer Contingency List") later today/tomorrow. Watch for that.

Re: Investigator Results List Overhaul

PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 6:32 am
by orangeandblack5
Sorry for the double post, but this case does warrant a separate post and not an edit, because of the large amount of new information.

I have completely changed the format of my original post, condensing the many edits into the post, making it easier to see any new edits that I may add in the future.

I have also added (per the request of K1llthestory) a new "Blackmailer Contingency List", which may end up being used if the Blackmailer buff is applied (right now it is not that good and it might be better to just move Blackmailer and Spy from their categories into their own grouping, leaving the categories they were in with only two results (buffing Arsonist, Lookout, and Blackmailer, not changing Mayor or Jailor, and nerfing Spy [from its current position with Mayor/Jailor]). This needs work done. Please let me know what you think in the new poll that I will be adding.

Speaking of, new poll! (again)
This time I want to know your thoughts on breaking up the confirmed Town result because of Spy/BM. Previous poll's results below:
Spoiler: 1. Yes! Put it in the game!
6 votes, 46.2%
2. It's good.
6 votes, 46.2%
3. It's okay...
1 vote, 7.6%
4. I don't like it.
0 votes, 0%
5. It's really bad.
0 votes, 0%
6. I like somebody else's list better.
0 votes, 0%

Questions I want feedback on are in the new "Food for Thought" spoiler. I also want feedback on any lore improvements and the Blackmailer Contingency List.

Thank you all!

Re: Investigator Results List Overhaul

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:50 am
by K1llthestory
Orange, I'd just stick with the originial list, because there's a lot of buffs/nerfs that can be added, changing this. I didn't mention that, so sorry. :3

Re: Investigator Results List Overhaul

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:08 am
by TrueGent
I've said this before, but never in this thread so I might as well say it now.
The only big problem with this list is Amnesiac, Transporter and Survivor being paired together, as it basically outs Survivor and Amnesiac for no reason at all.

Fix that and this list is perfect.

Re: Investigator Results List Overhaul

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:57 am
by orangeandblack5
TrueGent wrote:I've said this before, but never in this thread so I might as well say it now.
The only big problem with this list is Amnesiac, Transporter and Survivor being paired together, as it basically outs Survivor and Amnesiac for no reason at all.

Fix that and this list is perfect.

Until the Transporter nerf we all want. Then it works perfectly.

Re: Investigator Results List Overhaul

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:47 pm
by PurpleSidewalk1
TrueGent wrote:I've said this before, but never in this thread so I might as well say it now.
The only big problem with this list is Amnesiac, Transporter and Survivor being paired together, as it basically outs Survivor and Amnesiac for no reason at all.

Fix that and this list is perfect.

Personally I think this is a good idea. If you get investigated as this you can prove yourself as Trans or Amnesiac very easily so then people can know if you are Survivor since it is so difficult to prove. :D The only reason I want to lynch a WW/Survivor/Witch result is if there is a WW or a Witch and I don't care if they claim Survivor because why wouldn't they?

Re: Investigator Results List Overhaul

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:52 pm
by isrlygood
PurpleSidewalk1 wrote:
TrueGent wrote:I've said this before, but never in this thread so I might as well say it now.
The only big problem with this list is Amnesiac, Transporter and Survivor being paired together, as it basically outs Survivor and Amnesiac for no reason at all.

Fix that and this list is perfect.

Personally I think this is a good idea. If you get investigated as this you can prove yourself as Trans or Amnesiac very easily so then people can know if you are Survivor since it is so difficult to prove. :D The only reason I want to lynch a WW/Survivor/Witch result is if there is a WW or a Witch and I don't care if they claim Survivor because why wouldn't they?

well, one of the reasons people will kill survivors is that they can side with the bad guys, but the main reason i think is that they could be a bad guy but both of the other roles can prove themselves so i think the survivor killing might go to a minimum, that is if they are investigated of course

Re: Investigator Results List Overhaul

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:54 pm
by PurpleSidewalk1
isrlygood wrote:
PurpleSidewalk1 wrote:Personally I think this is a good idea. If you get investigated as this you can prove yourself as Trans or Amnesiac very easily so then people can know if you are Survivor since it is so difficult to prove. :D The only reason I want to lynch a WW/Survivor/Witch result is if there is a WW or a Witch and I don't care if they claim Survivor because why wouldn't they?

well, one of the reasons people will kill survivors is that they can side with the bad guys, but the main reason i think is that they could be a bad guy but both of the other roles can prove themselves so i think the survivor killing might go to a minimum, that is if they are investigated of course

Yeah I know that is the only reason I kill Survivors. Unless of course there is other evidence against them (like any evidence at all).

Re: Investigator Results List Overhaul

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:47 pm
by JazzMusicStops
With the whole blackmailer buffing thing, I just think a blackmailer reading whispers is a terrible idea, while admittedly it would work with the lore, I think it would make the blackmailer overpowered

Re: Investigator Results List Overhaul

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:01 pm
by TrueGent
orangeandblack5 wrote:
TrueGent wrote:I've said this before, but never in this thread so I might as well say it now.
The only big problem with this list is Amnesiac, Transporter and Survivor being paired together, as it basically outs Survivor and Amnesiac for no reason at all.

Fix that and this list is perfect.

Until the Transporter nerf we all want. Then it works perfectly.

Holy shit you just blew my mind.

Ok this list is a 10/10. Pack up and go home people.

JammySplodge wrote:With the whole blackmailer buffing thing, I just think a blackmailer reading whispers is a terrible idea, while admittedly it would work with the lore, I think it would make the blackmailer overpowered


My only problem with making BM read whispers is that when using this list you would then have "Arsonist or Lookout", which has the same problem as Doc or SK, in that if you know that there is no Arso (through SK or WW kills) its almost certain that they are Lookout.
Also making BM read whispers wouldnt be OP as long as it is only activated when the BMer is not blackmailing.

Re: Investigator Results List Overhaul

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:50 am
by JazzMusicStops
TrueGent wrote:
orangeandblack5 wrote:
TrueGent wrote:I've said this before, but never in this thread so I might as well say it now.
The only big problem with this list is Amnesiac, Transporter and Survivor being paired together, as it basically outs Survivor and Amnesiac for no reason at all.

Fix that and this list is perfect.

Until the Transporter nerf we all want. Then it works perfectly.

Holy shit you just blew my mind.

Ok this list is a 10/10. Pack up and go home people.

JammySplodge wrote:With the whole blackmailer buffing thing, I just think a blackmailer reading whispers is a terrible idea, while admittedly it would work with the lore, I think it would make the blackmailer overpowered


My only problem with making BM read whispers is that when using this list you would then have "Arsonist or Lookout", which has the same problem as Doc or SK, in that if you know that there is no Arso (through SK or WW kills) its almost certain that they are Lookout.
Also making BM read whispers wouldnt be OP as long as it is only activated when the BMer is not blackmailing.

It's still a mafia member who can read whispers, imagine this
Mayor reveals and asks for roles to be whispered to him/her
The sheriff, jailor and investigator whisper to him
The blackmailer sees these whispers
The Mafia now has the three biggest threats to their secrecy
The Mafia wins

Re: Investigator Results List Overhaul

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:03 am
by TrueGent
JammySplodge wrote: It's still a mafia member who can read whispers, imagine this
Mayor reveals and asks for roles to be whispered to him/her
The sheriff, jailor and investigator whisper to him
The blackmailer sees these whispers
The Mafia now has the three biggest threats to their secrecy
The Mafia wins

Thats the risk you would decide to take when you decide to do a Mayor claim strat.

Re: Investigator Results List Overhaul

PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:05 am
by orangeandblack5
Well, the poll seems pretty conclusive for "use the regular list". So yeah.

I'll keep the other list up, but it's still a second thing, not anything that I would use.

Also, planning to try and get this tested in the Testing Grounds as soon as I'm back from Europe.

Re: Investigator Results List Overhaul

PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:21 am
by TrueGent
orangeandblack5 wrote:Well, the poll seems pretty conclusive for "use the regular list". So yeah.

I'll keep the other list up, but it's still a second thing, not anything that I would use.

Also, planning to try and get this tested in the Testing Grounds as soon as I'm back from Europe.


If you are just going to move Spy and BM into their own category, what are you going to do about Arso/Lookout?
Or do you think that since Arso can hide better than SK that its not an issue?

Re: Investigator Results List Overhaul

PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:40 am
by orangeandblack5
TrueGent wrote:
orangeandblack5 wrote:Well, the poll seems pretty conclusive for "use the regular list". So yeah.

I'll keep the other list up, but it's still a second thing, not anything that I would use.

Also, planning to try and get this tested in the Testing Grounds as soon as I'm back from Europe.


If you are just going to move Spy and BM into their own category, what are you going to do about Arso/Lookout?
Or do you think that since Arso can hide better than SK that its not an issue?

For right now I'm not sure.

If anybody suggests a specific move than I'll look at it, but since a good amount of Arsonist players (myself included) don't douse until the end of the game unless necessary, I think it's "good enough" as is.

Plus, any way you look at it it is still better claim space for the Arsonist than Arso/Trans before the Transporter nerf, and worse claim space for the Lookout than BG/Lookout/Jailor.

Re: Investigator Results List Overhaul

PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 3:49 am
by cmitc1
I like it, but it feels like evil is getting a little too much to work with.

Re: Investigator Results List Overhaul

PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:14 pm
by orangeandblack5
cmitc1 wrote:I like it, but it feels like evil is getting a little too much to work with.

Most evil roles here only have one claim if investigated (opposed to zero), and most non-instant-confrim townies have two scum they are paired with.

I think it's balanced; what evil roles are getting too much to work with here?

Please explain.