Investigator's Results Revamp

[mshuck89]

OP I do think some of them are good...but why would the janitor go to a graveyard?

you clean the crime scene not the body (you'd clean the will and note which are left at the crime scene)
mayor/gf sucks but it has to be this way because sheriff can't ID GF so there is one strong one

and the spy problem really isn't hard to test people just spy test stupidly
whisper to 3: spy test 1234
bad...it's obvious
whisper to 3 : if there is a spy ask if X name is from (series it's from) or a similar question
spy says "Hey Gol D Rogers are you from one piece?"
good it seems curious but now you plus the person you whispered know there is a spy but to everyone else it seems like a random question

[isrlygood]

and the spy problem really isn't hard to test people just spy test stupidly
whisper to 3: spy test 1234
bad...it's obvious
whisper to 3 : if there is a spy ask if X name is from (series it's from) or a similar question
spy says "Hey Gol D Rogers are you from one piece?"
good it seems curious but now you plus the person you whispered know there is a spy but to everyone else it seems like a random question

i don't get what you are saying here, the spy test problem is that the Blackmailer is screwed cause he can't get a correct spy test

[Kiyosen]

OP I do think some of them are good...but why would the janitor go to a graveyard?

you clean the crime scene not the body (you'd clean the will and note which are left at the crime scene)
mayor/gf sucks but it has to be this way because sheriff can't ID GF so there is one strong one

and the spy problem really isn't hard to test people just spy test stupidly
whisper to 3: spy test 1234
bad...it's obvious
whisper to 3 : if there is a spy ask if X name is from (series it's from) or a similar question
spy says "Hey Gol D Rogers are you from one piece?"
good it seems curious but now you plus the person you whispered know there is a spy but to everyone else it seems like a random question

So your problem for Retributionist/Janitor/Amnesiac is theme? Got it. Anything else? Will change it to the original one(works with dead bodies), but you'll probably complain that the Amnesiac doesn't do that either. Any ideas then?
(Also, I have other result changes, but I want you guys' opinions on which are better.)

Mayor/GF is needed. I am aware of that too because I always try to keep them together in the results. But seeing as how the Town is still doing pretty well after the current role list was released(could be wrong, but I want statistics on this by a dev or something), I feel like the Godfather needs some sort of cover. Not sure what though, but something good enough that it'll cover them for a bit but not too good that they'll be able to get away too easily. I should probably just spoiler the first result changes since people are focusing only on that, and I don't want that.

Also the last part is the problem you just stated. You can confirm through a Spy Test, which is what I meant by revealing. I am aware of this and that's what's the problem with Spy/Blackmailer since the Blackmailer can't hear whispers. :/

[isrlygood]

oh, didn't realize you made multiple changes, I like Change #1 because the other 2 have the God Father paired with two easily confirmed town roles, not a fan of the janitor result, but there not really anything you can do to change that, without messing some of the other results up

[Kiyosen]

My questions to you all are this:
-Do you think Medium/Janitor is fine and why/why not?
-Do you think Jester/Disguiser is fine and why/why not?
-Do you think there should be a confirmed Town result and why/why not?
-How screwed should the Godfather, Arsonist, and Werewolf be when investigated by an Investigator?

Answering these questions will help me in improving these results.

[isrlygood]

My questions to you all are this:
-Do you think Medium/Janitor is fine and why/why not?

Yes, the Janitor is the strongest Mafia Deception, a town role that is weak, but can not really be proven suits him

-Do you think Jester/Disguiser is fine and why/why not?

nope, you'll get executed right away

-Do you think there should be a confirmed Town result and why/why not?

yes, anyone who is paired with those confirmable are screwed, they can't be screwed if they are town

-How screwed should the Godfather, Arsonist, and Werewolf be when investigated by an Investigator?

The WereWolf should be pampered right now, being the most weak killing, a role like bodyguard would help, Arsonist needs some help, but not that much, a role that is helpful, but not necessarily needed to win the game. The GodFather should be semi-fucked, he has a whole team after all, not a role like Mayor, spy or jailor though

Answering these questions will help me in improving these results.[/quote][/quote]

[Kiyosen]

-Do you think there should be a confirmed Town result and why/why not?

yes, anyone who is paired with those confirmable are screwed, they can't be screwed if they are town

Now how about this: Easily Confirmable Town + Non-confirmable Town + Evil Role in one grouping
Is this good or not and why/why not?

[isrlygood]

-Do you think there should be a confirmed Town result and why/why not?

yes, anyone who is paired with those confirmable are screwed, they can't be screwed if they are town

Now how about this: Easily Confirmable Town + Non-confirmable Town + Evil Role in one grouping
Is this good or not and why/why not?

Alright, lets see, ex: Ret, Doctor, Mafioso, yes, I like these types of results, my favorite actually, since the Evil role can claim the non confirmable town

[Bloodringe]

Hi there,
The issue I've found is the fact that
A.There are 30-31 roles
B.All of these roles have to have a result
C.The creation of these roles and the amount of each was not taken into consideration
And the result of this is
While putting each confirmable town with another town and a bad role, it doesn't work mathematically.
Just like 1 town 1 neutral and 1 mafia doesn't work mathematically.
Here is some simple figures
9 Mafia (Forger included)
8 Neutrals
14 Towns

This is of course everything at its more base state.
You could take each confirmable town
Mayor
Jailor
Spy
Veteran
Vigilante
Retributionist
Transporter

Thats 7 (not including doctor,medium, and others)
Add 1 of each town to them and that's 14.
The results of that (Just an example)
Mayor/medium/godfather
Jailor/Lookout/Arsonist
Spy/Doctor/Serial Killer
Veteran/Bodyguard/Werewolf
Vigilante/Escort/Mafioso
Retributionist/Sheriff/Janitor
Transporter /Investigator/Consigliere

That leaves
Blackmailer,Disguiser,Forger,Framer,Jester,Witch,Executioner
Survivor, and amnesiac
Even cut out forger and framer.
That leaves 2 mafia 2 benign and 3 neutral evil
Survivor is fucked at this point, anything paired with survivor is dead.
Amnesiac just got boned, anything paired with amnesiac will be killed.

Lets do
Survivor/Jester/Witch (Decent)
Now we have 2 mafia 1 benign 1 evil.

What im getting at here is the amount of town able to confirm themselves collapses the whole results system.
The only way around that is to wall off some of them

My questions to you all are this:
1-Do you think Medium/Janitor is fine and why/why not?
2-Do you think Jester/Disguiser is fine and why/why not?
3-Do you think there should be a confirmed Town result and why/why not?
4-How screwed should the Godfather, Arsonist, and Werewolf be when investigated by an Investigator?

Answering these questions will help me in improving these results.

1-No, the janitor is a strong role. But it isn't as strong of a role as would suggest needing a week result. Its strong on a team. But it's not as strong as an arsonist or serial killer. What I mean is being on a team won't effect your investigation results. So take the role for its exact strength, not it's strength in the game.
2-No, its a lazy result. The jester has the ability to cause hesitation in results, but at night its a free target. It needs something against that. I think jester needs some form of town in their result to counter this somewhat.
3-No, but it doesn't matter because (as I ranted above) there has to be.
4-Godfather should be used as a weight on either a town role or the survivor. It is one of the most direct town targets. It shouldn't be "easy" to find, it should be hunted.
Arsonist needs to hide, it shouldn't be given a good result. Because it could end up very powerful, but it needs a weak town.
Werewolf need the best cover you can give it. The Key to the werewolf is it seeming to be town. It can get killed by anything (unlike any other neutral killing), the town needs to be its last concern.

[isrlygood]

Also uhhh, shouldn't this go in role ideas? I mean, it has to do with a role, the investigator
Edit: although this has been on here for a relatively long time, so never mind then

[Bloodringe]

Also uhhh, shouldn't this go in role ideas? I mean, it has to do with a role, the investigator
Edit: although this has been on here for a relatively long time, so never mind then

Blame Elastoid, he put his here. So I put mine here. I think mrozak put his here. So yeah.

[Kiyosen]

Also uhhh, shouldn't this go in role ideas? I mean, it has to do with a role, the investigator
Edit: although this has been on here for a relatively long time, so never mind then

Honestly don't care. To be honest, I put it here mainly because Suggestions tend to get more coverage than Role Ideas for some reason. If someone really wants to move it, then go ahead.

Also, I didn't mean that you always had to use confirmed/non-confirmable/evil for everything, Bloodringe lol. That'd never happen since you'd be left with the unused Neutral and Mafia roles. Medium can also actually be powerful depending on the situations, though I can argue this for every role out there except maybe Disguiser and Werewolf. The Medium's actual strength is very variable anyway.

[mshuck89]

OP I do think some of them are good...but why would the janitor go to a graveyard?

you clean the crime scene not the body (you'd clean the will and note which are left at the crime scene)
mayor/gf sucks but it has to be this way because sheriff can't ID GF so there is one strong one

and the spy problem really isn't hard to test people just spy test stupidly
whisper to 3: spy test 1234
bad...it's obvious
whisper to 3 : if there is a spy ask if X name is from (series it's from) or a similar question
spy says "Hey Gol D Rogers are you from one piece?"
good it seems curious but now you plus the person you whispered know there is a spy but to everyone else it seems like a random question

So your problem for Retributionist/Janitor/Amnesiac is theme? Got it. Anything else? Will change it to the original one(works with dead bodies), but you'll probably complain that the Amnesiac doesn't do that either. Any ideas then?
(Also, I have other result changes, but I want you guys' opinions on which are better.)

Mayor/GF is needed. I am aware of that too because I always try to keep them together in the results. But seeing as how the Town is still doing pretty well after the current role list was released(could be wrong, but I want statistics on this by a dev or something), I feel like the Godfather needs some sort of cover. Not sure what though, but something good enough that it'll cover them for a bit but not too good that they'll be able to get away too easily. I should probably just spoiler the first result changes since people are focusing only on that, and I don't want that.

Also the last part is the problem you just stated. You can confirm through a Spy Test, which is what I meant by revealing. I am aware of this and that's what's the problem with Spy/Blackmailer since the Blackmailer can't hear whispers. :/

I'm just responding to your suggestion, the game's lore says the amnesiac visits the gravestones and that's what reminds him of who he was and since he has to pick a dead person to take a role it kind of makes sense

to be fair as much as it sucks to lose the gf the town does have the major risk of the mayor revealing (can no longer be healed and if there is a ww it will instajump at the opportunity and may kill half the town)

the spy/bm thing if the BM could hear whispers then there would be no way to determine which is real except for a sheriff. even if the bm was RB it would be half useful for a maf to vote randomly and seem blackmailed then the next day say "I was blackmailed yesterday"

Overall I do think there needs to be a revamp somewhat because if the mafia is any good they tend to win from what I've seen unless the town is like clockwork

[gorilla578]

Amnesiac should be instantly confirmable to Investigators and Consiglieres so they can force them to join their side.

2 seems to be the best IMO for I like the Witch being replaced with the Bodyguard so that the Survivor can lie his way out(people hate survivors these days) and the Werewolf can explain his immunity.
Lookout, Witch, and Blackmailer is pretty good. A witch can say the guy they controlled visited the guy she made him target.

Neutral Killings need this indirect buff. Yes yes, I know it's supposed to be very hard to win as one, but the results for them are just stupid. That is just one reason why the Serial Killer is such a successful role. He can say he's Doctor. Yes, you have to dodge Roleblockers and Jailors, but that should be the weakness for such an efficient role.

[Gobln]

Rate mine

Your target uses secret information to help the town. They must be a Jailor, Spy or Mayor

Your target accuses the Mafia. They must be a Framer, or Executioner.

Your target knows much about dead bodies. They must be an Retributionist, Jester or Disguiser

Your target is bulletproof. They must be a Bodyguard, Survivor, or the Godfather.

Your target gathers information. They must be an Amnesiac, Investigator, Consigliere or Blackmailer

Your target is a manipulative beauty. They must be an Escort or Consort.

Your target works with knives. They must be a Doctor or Serial Killer.

Your target smells of gas. They must be a Sheriff or Arsonist.

Your target works with dead bodies. They must be a Medium or Janitor.

Your target may hinder town. They must be a Transporter or a Veteran

Your target owns weapons. They must be a Vigilante, or Mafioso.

Your target watches over the town. They must be a Lookout, Werewolf or Witch.

[Kiyosen]

Rate mine

Your target uses secret information to help the town. They must be a Jailor, Spy or Mayor
Unsure on how to rate this one as having a confirmed Town result is apparently very controversial. Either rated very high(9/10) or very low(3/10), all I know.
Your target accuses the Mafia. They must be a Framer, or Executioner.
Framer should stay as Framer/Framed IMO. Possibly semi-viable though. (Unsure about rating, 6/10)
Your target knows much about dead bodies. They must be an Retributionist, Jester or Disguiser
Semi-viable. (6.5/10)
Your target is bulletproof. They must be a Bodyguard, Survivor, or the Godfather.
Semi-viable, but how screwed do you think the Godfather should be from this role? (If it should be screwed but not extremely screwed, 5/10. If it needs a good cover, then 7/10.)
Your target gathers information. They must be an Amnesiac, Investigator, Consigliere or Blackmailer
Can't tell if theme's off but people apparently don't like 4 roles in a grouping. Regardless, Amnesiac is fine on its own IMO. Blackmailer seems like an awkward choice to put in too. (7/10, but grouping seems awkward so maybe lower)
Your target is a manipulative beauty. They must be an Escort or Consort.
No need to rate an already existing one that's good. (9/10)
Your target works with knives. They must be a Doctor or Serial Killer.
No need to rate an already existing one that's good.(8/10)
Your target smells of gas. They must be a Sheriff or Arsonist.
Theme's off, but whatever. Could be viable. (6.5/10)
Your target works with dead bodies. They must be a Medium or Janitor.
No need to rate an already existing one that's possibly good. (7/10)
Your target may hinder town. They must be a Transporter or a Veteran
Unsure on how to rate this one as having a confirmed Town result is apparently very controversial. Either rated very high(7.5/10) or very low(3/10), all I know.
Your target owns weapons. They must be a Vigilante, or Mafioso.
Still somewhat viable, though it's just the same except minus the Veteran. If TK's a Veteran, then Mafioso will most likely get lynched though. (Around 6-7/10)
Your target watches over the town. They must be a Lookout, Werewolf or Witch.
Viable. (7.5-8/10)

Responses in blue. You obviously seem to have used Elastoid's results as a base. Probably should have put it in your own topic for more coverage and possible opinions on it, but since you already put it here, might as well. Ratings are flexible.

[Gobln]

There isnt enough non-townfirmable roles to give every evil role a safe spot, i think i would rather have 4 invest results pools. All being large.
Though it hurts invest i find it necessary if they dont remove town death notes.

Like,
Your target is related to death. they must be an Amnesiac, Janitor, Disguiser, Jester, Retributionist, Medium or Janitor.
Your target is xxxx. They must be a Werewolf, Lookout, Vigilante, Transporter etc. etc. etc.

It also fucks lore and new players but we dont need them.

[isrlygood]

There isnt enough non-townfirmable roles to give every evil role a safe spot, i think i would rather have 4 invest results pools. All being large.
Though it hurts invest i find it necessary if they dont remove town death notes.

Like,
Your target is related to death. they must be an Amnesiac, Janitor, Disguiser, Jester, Retributionist, Medium or Janitor.
Your target is xxxx. They must be a Werewolf, Lookout, Vigilante, Transporter etc. etc. etc.

this hurts it way more than it needs to be hurt, at this point it's basically useless by itself

It also fucks lore and new players but we dont need them.

pretty sure new players are needed to well.....increase the players of the game

[Gobln]

There isnt enough non-townfirmable roles to give every evil role a safe spot, i think i would rather have 4 invest results pools. All being large.
Though it hurts invest i find it necessary if they dont remove town death notes.

Like,
Your target is related to death. they must be an Amnesiac, Janitor, Disguiser, Jester, Retributionist, Medium or Janitor.
Your target is xxxx. They must be a Werewolf, Lookout, Vigilante, Transporter etc. etc. etc.

this hurts it way more than it needs to be hurt, at this point it's basically useless by itself

It also fucks lore and new players but we dont need them.

pretty sure new players are needed to well.....increase the players of the game

its not really hindering it too much, it just allows for more than 1 "safe claim" as an evil role. It will just make Invests think more.
New players are always confused they can just use the wiki.

[GaaraOfDaFunk]

Your target is a loner. They must be a Medium*, Survivor, or Werewolf*.
-This is more of a buff to the Werewolf than it is to the Survivor. The Werewolf needs some kind of claim space since it's by itself and the Medium is now a viable claim for it. (6.5/10)

Why should medium be seen as a loner?

[isrlygood]

Your target is a loner. They must be a Medium*, Survivor, or Werewolf*.
-This is more of a buff to the Werewolf than it is to the Survivor. The Werewolf needs some kind of claim space since it's by itself and the Medium is now a viable claim for it. (6.5/10)

Why should medium be seen as a loner?

Cause uhhhhhh, they're creepy. They spend their time in the graveyard and not with alive people

[Kiyosen]

Your target is a loner. They must be a Medium*, Survivor, or Werewolf*.
-This is more of a buff to the Werewolf than it is to the Survivor. The Werewolf needs some kind of claim space since it's by itself and the Medium is now a viable claim for it. (6.5/10)

Why should medium be seen as a loner?

Again, any suggestions would be nice for themes because that's not my focus...

But they just talk to the dead though...and that's it...lol
(I could be demoralizing the Medium, but whatever lol)

[GaaraOfDaFunk]

Again, any suggestions would be nice for themes because that's not my focus...

But they just talk to the dead though...and that's it...lol
(I could be demoralizing the Medium, but whatever lol)

Ahh I see, It is hard to come up with one....
The only thing I can think of is "Your target does not want to die on the first night" lol.

[lionon]

Your target is a lame role, they must be Medium, Survivor or Werewolf.

[Mroz4k]

Your target is a lame role, they must be Medium, Survivor or Werewolf.

10/10
jks

I just realized what Kiosen meant in his message to me long ago - I had optional changes on my suggestion as well, similar to what you have here.

I am currently working on my own overhaul, trying to do the impossible - put 1 and 1 and 1 role of each allignment together in some balanced way. With giving two Town claims for the heaviest of evil roles, so they have two roleclaims (even though the second one is going to be Unique or easily confirmable, therefore sucky.

And I admit that I am already running into the problem with lore as well.

Gobln´s list is okay, I suppose. It is obviously derived from Elastoids, which was by far the best so far, I´d say. Still dont like the confirmed Town. Could do without it.

Cant say I agree with Goblns opinion to put all the roles into four or five major investigation tags. Think it would be too much of a nerf, since it would narrow things down a lot slower.