DecDecAttack wrote:Tbh I'm up for removing a couple other results and adding them back in elsewhere as well.
syjfwbaobfwl wrote:/support
Not only makes invest result more balanced but it also unconfirms 2 town roles in coven rank (vigi and vet)
MysticMismagius wrote:Regarding Coven, the issue is there just aren't enough Coven faction roles to fill all the Investigator slots.
As things stand, these roles can be 100% confirmed Town by an Investigator in a Coven game without NK or Mafia (which most Coven rolelists not named All Any don't have) Spoiler:
MysticMismagius wrote:I've given the Investigator results a bit more thought. Here's what the default results look like:
Spoiler: Some things to note about these results:
- Any result with Mayor, Jailor, Pirate, or Guardian Angel on them are smaller than they look because they have mod-messages that make it extremely difficult to functionally fake-claim those roles.
- Psychic is a "Captain Accusation" role due to its evil visions. It also just flat out does not belong in the result with Survivor and Amnesiac (and the same goes for Medusa).
- Blackmailer is a "gathers information" role due to its ability to read whispers
- Lookout and Tracker not sharing a result is blasphemy. Especially since Plaguebearer exists, which can feasibly fake-claim either role.
- Having one result for both "framed" and "doused" would make it easier for Arsonist to slip into the shadows, and harder for Spy to hard-counter the "I was framed" defence.
With that in mind, I've come up with a completely different set of investigative results:
Spoiler:
MysticMismagius wrote:The reason I only made Coven results is because Classic and Coven results are always the same, just with Coven roles tacked on at the end.
My thought process for the results I came up with was:
1) Condense all the roles that would just take away claim space in standard modes (ranked, TT, etc.) into as few results as possible.
1A) These roles can be split into two categories: the “you can’t claim this” category and the “this doesn’t show up in most modes” category.
2) Connect the townie roles that require specific tools to fake-claim effectively, with the evil roles that have those tools
2B) There is some discretion here as some roles (Forger, Hypno, and PM come to mind) have the tools to fakeclaim multiple different roles that don’t go together.
3) Connect the roles that are easy to fake-claim effectively, with the evil roles that have no specific tools with which to craft a fake-claim.
Also, the Framer/HM result should have all evils in it, otherwise frames are even less effective than they are now.
This result is deceptively tiny. It has two un-claimable roles and one that doesn't appear in most non-AA game modes. In most contexts this result basically boils down to "Spy or Forger."WaveAqualei wrote:Spy, Jailor, Vampire Hunter, Forger, or Guardian Angel. "Your target keeps quiet."
I understand the concept of putting Survivor in the same result as Mayor (and one might expand it by putting Jailor and Survivor together as well), but Juggernaut cries in the corner for this result in CRP. With no Survivor in that mode, a Juggernaut pretty much has to claim Investigator and good luck with that.WaveAqualei wrote:Investigator, Mayor, Consigliere, Juggernaut, or Survivor. "Your target is hiding something about themselves."
MysticMismagius wrote:Hmm, interesting.
Poisoner is a role that can "kind of claim whatever" but it shares that distinction with pretty much any evil role that has no specific fake-claim tools
Godfather, Mafioso, Framer, Disguiser, all the NKs except Plaguebearer, pretty much any role that doesn't have tools to fake-claim something specific can "claim whatever".
Regardless, I think your investigative results list has many of the issues I tried to address in mine.
For example:
Issue 1: Some roles just take away claim space when put in a result with other roles. This is either because fake-claiming these roles is nigh-impossible; or because they rarely show up outside of All Any, Custom, and dedicated chaos modes.This result is deceptively tiny. It has two un-claimable roles and one that doesn't appear in most non-AA game modes. In most contexts this result basically boils down to "Spy or Forger."WaveAqualei wrote:Spy, Jailor, Vampire Hunter, Forger, or Guardian Angel. "Your target keeps quiet."
Issue 2: Some Town roles require specific abilities to fake-claim effectively. Pairing these Town roles with evil roles which lack the tools to claim them will instantly confirm those evil roles.I understand the concept of putting Survivor in the same result as Mayor (and one might expand it by putting Jailor and Survivor together as well), but Juggernaut cries in the corner for this result in CRP. With no Survivor in that mode, a Juggernaut pretty much has to claim Investigator and good luck with that.WaveAqualei wrote:Investigator, Mayor, Consigliere, Juggernaut, or Survivor. "Your target is hiding something about themselves."
MysticMismagius wrote:Another day, another rework
Mostly because I don't know what to do with Trapper, and because there was another thread about Investigator which focused on flavor text and establishing a consistent order to the roles within a result.
Same general philosophy as before: Sorting Townie and Evil roles into three "claimability brackets", with standard gamemodes like Ranked and Town Traitor in mind:
Tier 1: Townie roles that can be claimed by pretty much any role, combined with Evil roles that don't have any tools to craft a fake-claim with.
Spoiler:
Tier 2: Townie roles that require specific tools to fake-claim effectively, combined with Evil roles that have those tools.
(This one's a bit weird since some Evil roles have the tools to fake-claim multiple Townie roles that don't go together. I did my best.)
Spoiler:
Tier 3: Unclaimable roles. Either these instantly confirm themselves, or they don't show up in standard modes at all.
Spoiler:
Then there's the classic Framer result, which now has Arsonist in it so Spy doesn't instantly hard-counter the "I was framed" defence when one of these roles gets checked by an Investigator.
Spoiler:
MysticMismagius wrote:Another day, another rework
Mostly because I don't know what to do with Trapper, and because there was another thread about Investigator which focused on flavor text and establishing a consistent order to the roles within a result.
Same general philosophy as before: Sorting Townie and Evil roles into three "claimability brackets", with standard gamemodes like Ranked and Town Traitor in mind:
Tier 1: Townie roles that can be claimed by pretty much any role, combined with Evil roles that don't have any tools to craft a fake-claim with.
Spoiler:
Tier 2: Townie roles that require specific tools to fake-claim effectively, combined with Evil roles that have those tools.
(This one's a bit weird since some Evil roles have the tools to fake-claim multiple Townie roles that don't go together. I did my best.)
Spoiler:
Tier 3: Unclaimable roles. Either these instantly confirm themselves, or they don't show up in standard modes at all.
Spoiler:
Then there's the classic Framer result, which now has Arsonist in it so Spy doesn't instantly hard-counter the "I was framed" defence when one of these roles gets checked by an Investigator.
Spoiler:
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests