More fun lobby icons ?

[Joacgroso]

As far as I understand, most if not all BMG members are american. Should we add the american flag too? I feel like the connection is too weak. Also, if you are going to claim that the wide mayority of the players are LGBTQ+, you should back it up with something.

In any case, if the suggested flag simply states support for that community, I see no problem with it besides the lack of connection to the game itself. But I honestly don't know how badly LGBTQ+ people need support, so it's possible it's worth it.

Also, I don't know what you mean by roles having their own backgrounds. As far as I can tell no role icon has a background. But if we are going to add lobby icons so players can express themselves, I think allowing them to do it in relation to the game is a good idea. Of course, there are a lot of changes that are more important than role lobby icons.

[Ezradekezra]

I wouldn't mind a pride flag although I probably wouldn't use it myself.

My suggestion was reusing role icons, so I don't think an artist would have to do much, besides pasting them over a background. I admit the old icons would look a lot better as lobby icons, though.

I would actually really like this as a reward for getting 25 wins with a role or for getting every achievement for a role. Would definitely be better with the old icons imo.

Almost every role icon has a background. Kingpin's is Gray, Wolf's is Blue, I forgot the others but they all have backgrounds. I suppose the devs could add an option to superimpose the rainbow flag over the role icon?

I have no idea what you're talking about either. Kingpin and Wolf aren't even ToS roles.

Can you maybe post an image of whatever it is you're referring to?

[Superalex11]

cultural pandering is bad

[Joacgroso]

The American flag, in a game where there is a George Floyd bot who uses names that hardfilter dodge, is something I can't possible see being received well.

Many features in the game can be misused by the wrong people, but that never stopped the devs from adding them. Should we also remove the chat because people might use it to spread hate?

I'm not really sure as to why a cosmetic having no connection to the game is necessary? The poke-trainers have no connection to the game.

I'm talking about lobby icons, not skins. They kinda feel different to me. But I never said the connection was necessary. I just said the lack of connection was weird. I don't know how badly LGBTQ+ people need to be accepted, but if it can help some of them to be a bit less depressed, then it's worth considering.

Almost every role icon has a background. Kingpin's is Gray, Wolf's is Blue, I forgot the others but they all have backgrounds. I suppose the devs could add an option to superimpose the rainbow flag over the role icon?

When I made my suggestion I imagined some generic background with the role icon pasted over it. But a rainbow flag can work too.

I would actually really like this as a reward for getting 25 wins with a role or for getting every achievement for a role. Would definitely be better with the old icons imo.

I remember suggesting this in my achievement thread, lol.

[Ezradekezra]

I wouldn't mind a pride flag although I probably wouldn't use it myself.

My suggestion was reusing role icons, so I don't think an artist would have to do much, besides pasting them over a background. I admit the old icons would look a lot better as lobby icons, though.

I would actually really like this as a reward for getting 25 wins with a role or for getting every achievement for a role. Would definitely be better with the old icons imo.

Almost every role icon has a background. Kingpin's is Gray, Wolf's is Blue, I forgot the others but they all have backgrounds. I suppose the devs could add an option to superimpose the rainbow flag over the role icon?

I have no idea what you're talking about either. Kingpin and Wolf aren't even ToS roles.

Can you maybe post an image of whatever it is you're referring to?

https://town-of-salem.fandom.com/wiki/Icon

Kingpin is GF icon. They have names.

Oh, I thought you were talking about role icons, not lobby icons.

[Joacgroso]

False equivalency. Chat is needed to play the game. We don't need lobby icons.

Maybe, but there are also a lot of game mechanics that can be abused and were still added (forgeries, anonymous chats, jailors/vigilantes, witches). But my original point was that the connection to the game itself is too loose, and this doesn't change that.

I'm not sure why they would feel different, except that lobby icons are in the lobby and skins are in the game. Nobody remembers the lobby, everybody remembers the game. What better icon to set that precedent than the pride flag? I'm sure LGBTQ+ people aren't gonna die if a pride lobby icon isn't added to the game, but it's about representation. If everyone thinks like ToS LGTBQ+ characters won't have as much video game rep.

I feel like lobby icons are meant to represent players, while skins represent the character they are playing in the game, which can be joked about more. Then again, if no one remembers the lobby, what's the point of caring about lobby icons? I feel like adding a pride icon is a good idea if it will help people who needed, but if they don't need it then I don't think we should add orientation flags to a social deduction game. It's not like people are going to be personal or look for a partner here.

I literally cannot imagine what you're saying. None of the lobby icons have generic backgrounds. Confusion.

Jailor and serial killer are the only ones without generic backgrounds in my opinion. The other icons have just some colour that is clearer in the center.

what do role icons have to do with this

the title literally says lobby icons

Pageget! been a while

Maybe he was talking about my suggestion of role lobby icons.

[dolphina]

honestly i dont see why people oppose this so much

lots of people here are in the lgbtq+ community (myself included)

it’d be cool if i could rock a pride icon

[Joacgroso]

All of those things probably can be abused, yeah, but they help. Pride icon can be the same way.

How can the pride icon be abused? You were the one who brought abuse up.

Every role is going to be made into a lobby icon (iirc) in addition to a skin. This is planned.

Oh, really? That's good to hear. Do you have the source?

Don't get me wrong, I won't complain if this flag is added. In fact, I will be happy if the devs add something requested by the community. I'm rather neutral on this topic, because I don't think it's needed. You said there's no reason to oppose this suggestion, but normally you need reasons to do things, not to not do things. And the only reason that makes sense to me is "this icon might help people who really need to feel supported". I don't know how impactful this change is, but if it is impactful then I support it too.

[Superalex11]

honestly i dont see why people oppose this so much

There literally is no valid argument against such a simple icon.

cultural pandering is bad

What I don't understand is how this has even reached page 2. All icons are related to the game in some way; arbitrary twitteresque asskissing indulgences are not. I rarely agree with kyuss, and even here his rhetoric is yet poorly formed, but in this case his conclusion is correct.
Should we also include an apple logo for iphone users? I'm sure they make up a good portion of the playerbase. How about a big ol American flag? That demographic is also surely vast. Or maybe in the direction of the prog-narrative, a wheelchair for disabled people?
Do you see where this is going?

Those favoring OP seem to be in a strange place, with these claims that there's no reason not to implement a suggestion... but that's not how this works.
That's not how any of this works. There are probably thousands of individual suggestions that anyone could argue would be a net benefit, but that doesn't warrant any particular choice. The question isn't "is this good", it's "is this better than what else could be added". So even ignoring the point of whether cultural pandering is a good in itself - even granting that it may be - the proponents in this thread fall miles short of the point of why this is something worth the devs' focus.

[Superalex11]

We're misunderstanding each other. I really hate Twitter, I really hate stan talk. I really hate it when people compare apples to oranges like apple logo (which is copyrighted), American flag (an alt-Right symbol that George Floyd bots will abuse), and wheelchair (hard for the artists).

I didn't say it was better than anything else that could be added, I said "this is so easy to implement that we could literally just throw it into the next patch". Red line. orange line. yellow line. green line. blue line. purple line. wow, that was difficult.

I don't think we're misunderstanding each other at all. You're in favor of a run of the mill feels-good-but-does-nothing PR piece. People like you pushing things like this in environments where they don't belong is the reason there's so much pushback these days. I know you don't see it that way with those shades you have on, but that's what this is. You're at the point where you're calling the American flag an alt-right symbol. I don't think you're going to persuade anyone not already die-hard within your cultural lines to see pride flag icons in a text-based social deduction game completely disconnected from such as valuable.

Now, I wasn't so harsh with the OP because it seemed the pride point was a sideline, and I don't think a touch-up on old icons would be a bad idea if it were to come with something else, maybe a touch-up on skins in general or something. But I'm being harsh with you because you seem adamant in planting this sludge where it doesn't belong.

If you want to be taken seriously, you need to answer two questions, clearly and plainly:
- Why should BMG implement a pride flag icon? And don't cop-out with some buzzword salad.
- Following, why is adding a pride flag icon a more valuable use of time and effort than any of the other more common suggestions (feature updates, balance changes, meaningful visuals, trials, etc.)?

[Ezradekezra]

oh no we're hitting this part of the discussion

hi gmods

[dolphina]

We're misunderstanding each other. I really hate Twitter, I really hate stan talk. I really hate it when people compare apples to oranges like apple logo (which is copyrighted), American flag (an alt-Right symbol that George Floyd bots will abuse), and wheelchair (hard for the artists).

I didn't say it was better than anything else that could be added, I said "this is so easy to implement that we could literally just throw it into the next patch". Red line. orange line. yellow line. green line. blue line. purple line. wow, that was difficult.

I don't think we're misunderstanding each other at all. You're in favor of a run of the mill feels-good-but-does-nothing PR piece. People like you pushing things like this in environments where they don't belong is the reason there's so much pushback these days. I know you don't see it that way with those shades you have on, but that's what this is. You're at the point where you're calling the American flag an alt-right symbol. I don't think you're going to persuade anyone not already die-hard within your cultural lines to see pride flag icons in a text-based social deduction game completely disconnected from such as valuable.

Now, I wasn't so harsh with the OP because it seemed the pride point was a sideline, and I don't think a touch-up on old icons would be a bad idea if it were to come with something else, maybe a touch-up on skins in general or something. But I'm being harsh with you because you seem adamant in planting this sludge where it doesn't belong.

If you want to be taken seriously, you need to answer two questions, clearly and plainly:
- Why should BMG implement a pride flag icon? And don't cop-out with some buzzword salad.
- Following, why is adding a pride flag icon a more valuable use of time and effort than any of the other more common suggestions (feature updates, balance changes, meaningful visuals, trials, etc.)?

don’t the artists literally work differently from bmg themselves

also

pride flag

yes it is sloppy but you could alternatively just save an image in wikipedia and put in in drawing software, which takes like 30 seconds. crazy, i know. wild. how insane

can you stop being a bitch about it now

dunno much about how coding works but i’m sure implementing a cosmetic feature can’t be that hard

Spoiler: if you want it in a more concise way, superalex, here you go

1. as a member of the lgbtq+ community (and if you call this “buzzword salad” i’ll slit your throat), it just feels nice to be represented in a game i like to play
2. okay i already had an earlier example, but here’s an example of how long it takes to make a pride icon if i save an image from wikipedia. it’s maybe one to two minutes tops if you count the time it took for my clumsy hands to type in wikipedia on my shitty phone

[Superalex11]

1. as a member of the lgbtq+ community (and if you call this “buzzword salad” i’ll slit your throat), it just feels nice to be represented in a game i like to play

But this is buzzword salad. Even taking it at face it still doesn't address the distinction between this particular idea (pride flag) and any other (e.g. American flag). Try again, but this time don't regurgitate NPC dialogue.

2. okay i already had an earlier example, but here’s an example of how long it takes to make a pride icon if i save an image from wikipedia. it’s maybe one to two minutes tops if you count the time it took for my clumsy hands to type in wikipedia on my shitty phone

And as above, this doesn't address the question. I didn't ask how hard it would be, or how much time it would take. I asked about relative value. Taking 30 seconds to implement something (which, by the way, isn't near the time needed for the full process, don't lie) is irrelevant if those 30 seconds could have been spent on something better. We all know there are multitudes of quick and easy tasks BMG has refused over the years - the question is why should they care now, and about this specifically?

[Taddyaus]

I wouldn't mind a pride flag although I probably wouldn't use it myself.

My suggestion was reusing role icons, so I don't think an artist would have to do much, besides pasting them over a background. I admit the old icons would look a lot better as lobby icons, though.

I would actually really like this as a reward for getting 25 wins with a role or for getting every achievement for a role. Would definitely be better with the old icons imo.

Almost every role icon has a background. Kingpin's is Gray, Wolf's is Blue, I forgot the others but they all have backgrounds. I suppose the devs could add an option to superimpose the rainbow flag over the role icon?

I have no idea what you're talking about either. Kingpin and Wolf aren't even ToS roles.

Can you maybe post an image of whatever it is you're referring to?

https://town-of-salem.fandom.com/wiki/Icon

Kingpin is GF icon. They have names.

Oh, I thought you were talking about role icons, not lobby icons.

I CANT STOP LAUGHING AT THIS, THIS WAS THE BEST PART OF THIS

[dolphina]

1. as a member of the lgbtq+ community (and if you call this “buzzword salad” i’ll slit your throat), it just feels nice to be represented in a game i like to play

But this is buzzword salad. Even taking it at face it still doesn't address the distinction between this particular idea (pride flag) and any other (e.g. American flag). Try again, but this time don't regurgitate NPC dialogue.

fuck you now i have to actually type something that requires more than half of my two braincells

future dolph here: i typed it up fucking finally my back hurts

Spoiler: Are Americans oppressed specifically just for being American? Are they killed and assaulted in the streets just for being American? Have their rights been suppressed for hundreds of years just for being American? If I flaunt an American flag, I’m just some asshole who’s patriotic. That’s literally all an American flag represents. A country. Nobody cares if you have the Danish flag or the Scottish flag or the flag of Mozambique as an icon or whatever because Americans are just American. People from countries are just people from countries unless you’re political or something, I don’t know. And that’s why BMG hasn’t implemented country icons- because inevitably people are going to ask for more and more until they get overwhelmed and then people get mad and call BMG racist shits. Or political fuckheads, or something more vulgar than that.

Meanwhile, most people within and without the LGBTQ+ community can agree that the pride flag represents us all. Six colors, one rainbow encompassing us all. And yes, it’s kind of political shittery because eventually someone’s going to make a snarky comment about the gays, but the point is that it’s not a crime in any country to come out as American. If you come out as American, people are going to tell you you’re being a stupid shit because why would you need to do that? It’s just accepted. But LGBTQ+ people need to come out carefully and they need to come out to only certain people because most of us actively fear coming out to the wrong people and that will end up with us getting kicked out, abused, or worse. The pride flag is just that: pride in being LGBTQ+ and being brave enough to come out as such, when even being LGBTQ+ and being found out in some countries is criminalized and can lead to your death.

On this online mostly anonymous game where people probably don’t know who I am, it feels nice to be able to say “hey, I’m this thing and it’s pretty fucking cool” when I’m not able to do it in real life. It feels nice to be able to say that through a lobby icon instead of having to see people spam some f-slur censor dodge in the chat. It also says that LGBTQ+ people are welcome in this environment, which is really nice to see.

tl;dr because you’re too lazy to read the shit i write (trust me, i’m too lazy to read anything i write myself after proofreading): being lgbtq+ is not bad. people bad because they harass us and shit. pride icon good because it shows support. not same as nationality flag because unless political shitfuck you do not care.

2. okay i already had an earlier example, but here’s an example of how long it takes to make a pride icon if i save an image from wikipedia. it’s maybe one to two minutes tops if you count the time it took for my clumsy hands to type in wikipedia on my shitty phone

And as above, this doesn't address the question. I didn't ask how hard it would be, or how much time it would take. I asked about relative value. Taking 30 seconds to implement something (which, by the way, isn't near the time needed for the full process, don't lie) is irrelevant if those 30 seconds could have been spent on something better. We all know there are multitudes of quick and easy tasks BMG has refused over the years - the question is why should they care now, and about this specifically?

the artist are a separate team what the fuck are they spending those thirty seconds on other than making art for tos:a? it’s in their job description

and anyway, if we’re taking into account implementing the lobby icon, do you really think bmg would spend thirty seconds on something useful like fixing roles? fuck no they still haven’t fixed a bunch of balance shit. they’ve added lots of cosmetic items over the years though. question: why wouldn’t bmg implement more cosmetics that might cost money to buy

[Joacgroso]

question: why wouldn’t bmg implement more cosmetics that might cost money to buy

To be honest, it would be pretty weird if the pride icon required actual money to be acquired.

[dolphina]

question: why wouldn’t bmg implement more cosmetics that might cost money to buy

To be honest, it would be pretty weird if the pride icon required actual money to be acquired.

fair, but still. capitalism