Vet should not be allowed to be exe's target

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Vet should not be allowed to be exe's target

Postby itaicool » Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:36 am

Vet is too easily confirmable by town visiting them on alert and writing it on their will, I bet exe winrate when vet is their target is close to 0%, that should just not be allowed to happen.
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Re: Vet should not be allowed to be exe's target

Postby kyuss420 » Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:49 am

except evils tend to not target an outed veteran, and deal with vets by voting them off when the oppurtunity arises, so they arent left with a guessing game in a 1v1 situation at end game.

So you gotta help the evil faction gain that majority vote, by keeping them safe ^^
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Re: Vet should not be allowed to be exe's target

Postby itaicool » Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:17 am

I don't think exe should depend on there being an evil majority to win, they should be able to cause mislynch and doubt even if there is town majority but its impossible once the veteran is confirmed via townie dying to them in alert, the same reason mayor and jailor can't be targets I believe veteran has the same issue.
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Re: Vet should not be allowed to be exe's target

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:07 am

itaicool wrote:I don't think exe should depend on there being an evil majority to win, they should be able to cause mislynch and doubt even if there is town majority but its impossible once the veteran is confirmed via townie dying to them in alert, the same reason mayor and jailor can't be targets I believe veteran has the same issue.


except that if vet didnt kill in the first 2 nights and townies live in the stone age and think that alerting n1 is a good idea (which is not very rare actually) then vet will be instantly hanged
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Re: Vet should not be allowed to be exe's target

Postby EqsyLootz » Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:41 pm

CC vet if they claim. Always works. If not side evils and gain majority easily.
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Re: Vet should not be allowed to be exe's target

Postby kyuss420 » Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:19 am

itaicool wrote:I don't think exe should depend on there being an evil majority to win, they should be able to cause mislynch and doubt even if there is town majority but its impossible once the veteran is confirmed via townie dying to them in alert, the same reason mayor and jailor can't be targets I believe veteran has the same issue.


kinda like saying sheriff shouldnt be exes target in case he finds a mafia n1/n2 and confirms himself. Or LO shouldnt be exe target, in case he confirms 2 TP and an escort n1.

Also mayor can push a button during day phase that says ''I AM TOWN'', vet cant. Jailor can execute the exe. Vet cant
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Re: Vet should not be allowed to be exe's target

Postby Yemac » Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:18 am

That won't work because almost any role can confirm themselves. Medium, Escort, Retri, Transporter, Vet, Vigi, Doctor, BG. Only TI's can't be 100% confirmed (except maybe LO). I would say suggest something that would make it easier for exe. Like a "give up" button that turns you into a jester. Say your target is Escort and they get confirmed n1, you can turn yourself into a jester (Only at night) and then hope to get voted.
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Re: Vet should not be allowed to be exe's target

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:49 am

Yemac wrote:That won't work because almost any role can confirm themselves. Medium, Escort, Retri, Transporter, Vet, Vigi, Doctor, BG. Only TI's can't be 100% confirmed (except maybe LO). I would say suggest something that would make it easier for exe. Like a "give up" button that turns you into a jester. Say your target is Escort and they get confirmed n1, you can turn yourself into a jester (Only at night) and then hope to get voted.


then the role of executioner is pointless, everyone would give up d1 to become jester because win as jester is very easy
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Re: Vet should not be allowed to be exe's target

Postby kyuss420 » Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:49 am

syjfwbaobfwl wrote:
Yemac wrote:That won't work because almost any role can confirm themselves. Medium, Escort, Retri, Transporter, Vet, Vigi, Doctor, BG. Only TI's can't be 100% confirmed (except maybe LO). I would say suggest something that would make it easier for exe. Like a "give up" button that turns you into a jester. Say your target is Escort and they get confirmed n1, you can turn yourself into a jester (Only at night) and then hope to get voted.


then the role of executioner is pointless, everyone would give up d1 to become jester because win as jester is very easy


yup, you can set yourself up for a lynch, and have death immunity until town is ready to vote...
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Re: Vet should not be allowed to be exe's target

Postby Ayame01 » Fri May 07, 2021 8:36 pm

Exe's target shouldn't be Vigilante either then. Vig can just shoot them if exe claims they're sus.
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Re: Vet should not be allowed to be exe's target

Postby Yemac » Sat May 08, 2021 12:25 pm

kyuss420 wrote:
syjfwbaobfwl wrote:
Yemac wrote:That won't work because almost any role can confirm themselves. Medium, Escort, Retri, Transporter, Vet, Vigi, Doctor, BG. Only TI's can't be 100% confirmed (except maybe LO). I would say suggest something that would make it easier for exe. Like a "give up" button that turns you into a jester. Say your target is Escort and they get confirmed n1, you can turn yourself into a jester (Only at night) and then hope to get voted.


then the role of executioner is pointless, everyone would give up d1 to become jester because win as jester is very easy


yup, you can set yourself up for a lynch, and have death immunity until town is ready to vote...


What would you all suggest then for exe? Exe has a problem with being confirmed easily and confirming town. You say 12 is sus, you get hanged. boom, 12 gets confirmed mafia has a that's much harder time to win.
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Re: Vet should not be allowed to be exe's target

Postby Joacgroso » Sat May 08, 2021 1:33 pm

Confirming yourself as exe is impossible. Any evil can cause a misslynch and claim exe.

In my experience, exes are rarely lynched before their target. Town usually likes to hang the accused first. If they hang the exe first it's because the accused player was pretty trustworthy (probably a lookout), so making the target confirmed won't make that much of a difference.

Besides, if the mafia pushed the exe instead of their target they deserve to be at a disadvantage.
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Re: Vet should not be allowed to be exe's target

Postby kyuss420 » Sat May 08, 2021 10:10 pm

Yemac wrote:
kyuss420 wrote:
syjfwbaobfwl wrote:
Yemac wrote:That won't work because almost any role can confirm themselves. Medium, Escort, Retri, Transporter, Vet, Vigi, Doctor, BG. Only TI's can't be 100% confirmed (except maybe LO). I would say suggest something that would make it easier for exe. Like a "give up" button that turns you into a jester. Say your target is Escort and they get confirmed n1, you can turn yourself into a jester (Only at night) and then hope to get voted.


then the role of executioner is pointless, everyone would give up d1 to become jester because win as jester is very easy


yup, you can set yourself up for a lynch, and have death immunity until town is ready to vote...


What would you all suggest then for exe? Exe has a problem with being confirmed easily and confirming town. You say 12 is sus, you get hanged. boom, 12 gets confirmed mafia has a that's much harder time to win.


all part of the game bro.... ofc some matches are easier than others. I have no problem with exe, I even scroll for it in AA. Ive had my target lynched day 2 with a psy claim, didnt out, and town believed i was psy til the end of the game. Ive remained silent for days, as exe and pushed my target day 5 or 6 and still had them hung. Ive been hit by maf on the same night SK killed my target and been lynched as SK the next day thanks to maf pushing me.

Ive also pushed people other than my target, and confirmed mafia as town because ''exe had them in their will as target'' Its really no different to any other nuetral when it comes to difficulty to achieve win cons. Theres no rule saying Exe has to accuse their target day 2, and usually confirmed targets get taken out by maf early, so its wait a day or 2 then make your jester move...(which is harder if you are pushing from day 2)
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Vet should not be allowed to be exe's target

Postby Villagerlover » Wed May 12, 2021 7:11 pm

I don't think so. Veteran is perfectly fine as is. It's got a double edged sword mechanic and anyone who tries to "visit" a veteran for confirmation deserves to die lol.
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Re: Vet should not be allowed to be exe's target

Postby DiamondRanger8 » Thu May 13, 2021 12:14 am

You shouldn't have to rely entirely on the evils getting majority to lynch your target, and also if the veteran is confirmed, then you have no chance at all, unless Mafia gets majority.
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Re: Vet should not be allowed to be exe's target

Postby SilverCruz » Thu May 13, 2021 12:34 am

This isn't exclusive to Veteran. Spy posts and nobody contradicts them, Town will get you first if you push them anyway, and doing something like saying "Their will is bogus, I'm Lookout, I watched <someone they saw the Mafia visit>, and there were no visitors except for me", well they claimed first so the Town's more likely to take their word than yours.

Likewise, Sheriff calls and nails a Mafia, then you have no way of getting rid of them through misdirection, you can only hope that the Mafia knocks them off sooner rather than later and play into that.

Part of the problem is there being a static Executioner, if you ask me. Too predictable. It should at least be changed so that it can be either an Executioner or Jester from go. If you're bent on there never being a second Witch then adding a Neutral Ex/Je bracket and using that instead of Executioner would make that work, though I'd say the possibility of a second Witch would be probably be better since it'd give the Hypnotist a way to disrupt information that doesn't exist in the current Un/Ranked role list, ignoring Hypnotist's existing problem with exposing itself through conflicting feedback.
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Re: Vet should not be allowed to be exe's target

Postby DiamondRanger8 » Thu May 13, 2021 2:48 pm

SilverCruz wrote:This isn't exclusive to Veteran. Spy posts and nobody contradicts them, Town will get you first if you push them anyway, and doing something like saying "Their will is bogus, I'm Lookout, I watched <someone they saw the Mafia visit>, and there were no visitors except for me", well they claimed first so the Town's more likely to take their word than yours.

Likewise, Sheriff calls and nails a Mafia, then you have no way of getting rid of them through misdirection, you can only hope that the Mafia knocks them off sooner rather than later and play into that.

Part of the problem is there being a static Executioner, if you ask me. Too predictable. It should at least be changed so that it can be either an Executioner or Jester from go. If you're bent on there never being a second Witch then adding a Neutral Ex/Je bracket and using that instead of Executioner would make that work, though I'd say the possibility of a second Witch would be probably be better since it'd give the Hypnotist a way to disrupt information that doesn't exist in the current Un/Ranked role list, ignoring Hypnotist's existing problem with exposing itself through conflicting feedback.


The difference, though, is your can claim other things to contradict the spy will. With Veteran, you get 2 choices, CC Veteran, so if you claim anything besides Veteran before they came out, you have no chance, or you can wait until Mafia has majority. It's really stupid how you get only 2 choices to play the game as exe with a vet target.
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