Town Traitor and Mafia - Stop denying the meta.

[sarysa]

After coming back and playing Town Traitor fairly extensively for the last two weeks, I've noticed a lot of player gripes and behavior that make it clear the ruleset is at odds with how the game is actually played. So here are two simple, and probably not original, suggestions that I'm going to (re)iterate through anyway.

Separate Witch From Countdown - Witch has always been a neutral support entity for evil, so why on earth is she so fundamentally tied to Mafia's victory? Having the countdown tied to a a character who can't kill herself makes zero sense, and only serves to drag out the game to eternity. She has no motivation to die either, because she loses when dead. This one might be controversial but it shouldn't be -- there is no valid reason that she should be an impediment to the traitor.

Canonize Last Mafia Suicide - Now this one will be very controversial, but let's be realistic here. Last mafia suicide is so widespread at this point that it has become a way to gauge whether or not the Jailor is TT...because they practically never are when the last mafia rage quits. The leaver penalty is like laws on the books against jaywalking, flagrantly ignored and scoffed at by the player base. It has gotten to the point that one will be viewed as a sociopath for not leaving when being endlessly role blocked as last mafia. The only rational thing to do in such a situation is to canonize it -- last mafia gets a special nighttime button, RB immune, to bite down on their cyanide capsule or whatever and end their own life. They can then be properly dead and root for the traitor, and more importantly not provide metagaming clues on the Jailor's innocence or guilt.

edit: oh, and I guess the above applies to Coven in coven TT too.

[Brilliand]

Separate Witch From Countdown

Agreed.

Canonize Last Mafia Suicide

I'd rather tweak the countdown rules so the last Maf leaving doesn't make sense. For example, change it to "the TT countdown starts when 8 players have died"; that way the town doesn't even benefit from keeping the last MK around, and will just quickly kill him.

Of course the "chainblock the Mafia Killing" trick is a problem in all modes, not just TT; and there's a Jailor nerf planned that will partially fix this.

[sarysa]

Separate Witch From Countdown

Agreed.

Canonize Last Mafia Suicide

I'd rather tweak the countdown rules so the last Maf leaving doesn't make sense. For example, change it to "the TT countdown starts when 8 players have died"; that way the town doesn't even benefit from keeping the last MK around, and will just quickly kill him.

Of course the "chainblock the Mafia Killing" trick is a problem in all modes, not just TT; and there's a Jailor nerf planned that will partially fix this.

That won't fix the problem, it'll only give TT a one day advantage over the current meta. When last mafia is left with 7 total alive, they get lynched anyway. (in case Jailor is TT) Mafia usually suicide in towns of 9-12, including the mafia member themselves.

[shapesifter13]

We plan on changing the Jailor to prevent jailing the same target multiple times in a row, so this should help with problems of the Jailor chain jailing the Mafioso to prevent kills while Town searches for the TT. I'm sure further changes will need to be made when players figure out how to beat this change though. We also have Mafia buffs planned for the future that could help Mafia a lot in Town Traitor.

[ScarfVendetta]

We plan on changing the Jailor to prevent jailing the same target multiple times in a row, so this should help with problems of the Jailor chain jailing the Mafioso to prevent kills while Town searches for the TT. I'm sure further changes will need to be made when players figure out how to beat this change though. We also have Mafia buffs planned for the future that could help Mafia a lot in Town Traitor.

The Jailor change should definitely be a step in the right direction. Town will be more hesitant to keep the Mafia alive if they can still kill every other night.

Do you have any plans to allow the countdown to start while the Witch is still alive?

[shapesifter13]

That is something that might be changed. We are focusing on some different things currently though. Like Mafia, and NK changes for the new ranked patched.