Pixies wrote:I've always said to change witch to something like Exe or Jester. The jester can act as a TT to get lynched and let the Exe have a TT as a target.
Brilliand wrote:Pixies wrote:I've always said to change witch to something like Exe or Jester. The jester can act as a TT to get lynched and let the Exe have a TT as a target.
The Jester would be a safe lynch during the TT countdown, since the Jester haunt would be just as likely to hit the TT as a lynch would.
The Exe would be a confirmed non-Traitor, and I doubt the Town would mind lynching his target when they're randoming "townies who might be Traitor" anyway.
Neither of those would help scum much at all.
FrenchyTheSphee wrote:Executioner is the better addition to TT more than Jester since having Exe will make people trust sheriffs/investigators/spies less which helps Mafia in the early game
Savagepeyton wrote:I know I have seen people suggest this elsewhere, but I am going to create a discussion for it. Please remove witch from TT! As the game mode is currently, witch, being an evil with killing capabilities provided that a TK is alive, needs to be killed before the Traitor countdown timer starts. However, in most cases, witch is unable to kill on a regular basis (either because they can’t find TK or they are deliberately being kept alive and blocked by jailor). The witch presence makes it so that town can start looking for TT before the timer begins without having to worry about being killed by evils. As a result, most people quit as witch when only TT is left to give evils a chance to win, as they are unable to win themselves at this point. In other words, witch being in TT basically encourages throwing, which is not healthy for the game environment!
It can’t really win in TT anyway. If you think about it, the only way for witch to win in TT is via mafia winning the regular way (by just killing all town members and tricking town with fake claims). However, a mafia win without relying on TT timer is almost nonexistent in TT mode (due to the large number of townies to begin with, and also because winning via TT timer is easier so most mafia will find ways to deliberately get themselves killed such as by making really bad claims). And not only does mafia have to win the regular way, but witch has to survive too (which is hard enough to do in regular modes). As a result, most people who get witch in TT consider the game to be a guaranteed loss.
Instead of witch, I think that jester would be a better neutral to include in TT. Jester would have lodes of fun in TT. In a mode where the slightest wrong thing said is guaranteed to get you lynched, the jester should have no problem getting the win most times. It would also be cool in TT because it would add to the already high amount of paranoia; potentially lynching the jester could mean losing retributionist or another confirmed town member, thus creating a penalty for randomly lynching for TT. Jester also wouldn’t need to be killed in order for the TT timer to start, thus creating the possibility that town will waste a much-needed day on killing the jester.
At any rate, whether jester is included or not, WITCH NEEDS TO GO!!! Witch is virtually impossible to win in TT and encourages throwing in order to help mafia win. Not only does it not contribute very many positive things to the game mode (as a witched vigilante shooting a townie often helps town in TT), it hurts the mafia’s chance of winning significantly. PLEASE REMOVE WITCH FROM TT!!!
James2 wrote:The possibility of gamethrowing and people being mad about losing are not valid reasons for changing game mechanics.
Brilliand wrote:James2 wrote:The possibility of gamethrowing and people being mad about losing are not valid reasons for changing game mechanics.
The possibility of gamethrowing is a serious problem for ToS, and sometimes it's addressed by changing game mechanics. That has worked out pretty well so far.
One role not being able to win at all is the best reason for changing game mechanics, and that's actually relevant to this thread.
James2 wrote:Legitimate gameplay should never be impeded on account of the possibility that someone might gamethrow. The devs have made many decisions that were unwise, but I can't think of any case where they changed game mechanics for this bad reason.
Brilliand wrote:James2 wrote:Legitimate gameplay should never be impeded on account of the possibility that someone might gamethrow. The devs have made many decisions that were unwise, but I can't think of any case where they changed game mechanics for this bad reason.
iirc, the Vigilante's guilt suicide is an example of this.
Seems to me that insisting that this reason is [i]always[.i] bad and should not be acknowledged at all is rather unreasonable.
James2 wrote:The reason why gamethrowing is bad is that it's a major external influence on the game. Changing game mechanics to account for throwers is bad for the same reason, it lets them affect the game's balance. It would defeat the whole purpose of opposing gamethrowing in the first place.
Brilliand wrote:James2 wrote:The reason why gamethrowing is bad is that it's a major external influence on the game. Changing game mechanics to account for throwers is bad for the same reason, it lets them affect the game's balance. It would defeat the whole purpose of opposing gamethrowing in the first place.
Assuming we expect to be able to eliminate gamethrowing entirely.
Sometimes a half-measure that can't be perfect gets better results than trying for perfection and failing to attain it.
You're not seriously wrong here, but I'm objecting to your black-and-white thinking.
James2 wrote:If a person's goal is to throw, they'll find a way to do so regardless of what mechanical obstacles are in place. Such obstacles will only really hinder people with legitimate goals. Humans are smarter than machines, so without putting a human moderator in every game, there's no way to stop determined throwers before the fact.
Brilliand wrote:James2 wrote:If a person's goal is to throw, they'll find a way to do so regardless of what mechanical obstacles are in place. Such obstacles will only really hinder people with legitimate goals. Humans are smarter than machines, so without putting a human moderator in every game, there's no way to stop determined throwers before the fact.
Considering the audience this game attracts, I'm not sure "determined throwers" are the primary concern (though they certainly do show up sometimes).
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 26 guests