what is wrong still

[MaskedPokerFace]

i was away from TOS for a long time and turned back to see if something positive with game
First ,i should tell that you have done good job about interfaces
but i am still dissapointed about gameplay of community.
whats wrong with it?
there are some roles which community still is unhappy with them and these players just about acting afk till end and they re just handycap for teammates and there are some roles which a player rules all strategy during the game and sometimes these roles are taking all fun of other player's gameplay without prove or without judging the roles in trial.
as an example;
if a jailor role found a mayor in early nights, jailor forces mayor to be claimed next day and each day mayor is lynching player(s) without any prove and questions even they are proven roles.
BM must redesign some roles if their power is in GOD mode instead of being team player mode for others and maybe that ELO must be removed because some player can be playing this game for elo.
Edit:maybe mayor shouldnot declare for public manually. at this point ,Mayor will be a role that turns into Mayor automatically and uses 3 vote once if days passed in town.
like after 3 days ,in 4th days player turns into a mayor.

[Villagerlover]

unity is what's wrong still

[kyuss420]

They still havent put the web version on unity, so until then, nothing is changing.

Auto reveal as mayor is kinda dumb. What if all the TPs are dead by day 4? Manually revealing at strategic times is much better play.

[MaskedPokerFace]

This s a reply of me to another topic...These kind of roles only cause afk gameplay of other classes and without discussion in trial days
because everyone(townies) know that Mayor will target someone however they are assigned as a townie role by unproven TIs for Mayor.
Dont think that i only criticized Mayor here. They are being real chaos with a jallor even jailor has got a meta gameplay.
Jailor gameplay is OP too for other roles even against townies.
if you are a jailor you can easily be a traitor for townies even game must call it traitor not jailor.
BM can find better solutions to these classes to remove their GOd mode on other townies.
below is my an idea how you want it ,like or not but gameplay must gives a time for other classes to prove themself or their target's role before being an abondoned class in the corner by declaration of mayor.Leadership of all town votes and being a proven role should not be that easy for gameplay of townies like jailor and Mayor.

BM may remove night execution from jailor, i tell you as an old tos player and you will see everything will be better for both side players of gameplay at below.
Jailor is enough to get information from night jailing and roleblocking without execution. this 2 specialities are enough for jailor to be different from escort.
espacially, Jailors cant judge persons as judges, so they havent got any right to execute someone without judgement.
at this point, BM must change this role and must add extra specialities for jailor as example; jailor can take immunity at nights if none is in prison and
2 sides(goods and evils) of town will need persuasion of town to trial at days wth this immunity. Mayor and jailor Co-teamplay will be blocked a bit.
My other idea is mayor mustnot turn into a declarated mayor manually ,mayor must be a candidate before 3rd or up days and turns into mayor if survives.
With these changes; All Neus will be buffed a bit. everytime Devs dont need to buff all roles for simple meta problems.

[kyuss420]

Taking time to prove yourself = less time for mafia majority = mafia advantange

Many games I have seen lost because people gave evil factions a night ''to prove'' themselves. Many times, a night is all you need. Or my favourite, not lynching either of the TI claims, even tho 1 of them has to be fake. It doesnt solve anything and the next day you have to decide between the same 2 targets to lynch, again.

Sometimes death is the only way to confirm yourself, and a 1 for 1 trade off, by lynching/exeing early is a huge town advantage. Not to mention a huge late game advantage, when town decides to give someone ''time to prove'' themselves, (time that town clearly didnt have...) and doesnt vote, a jailor/vigi exe can be the difference between which faction holds majority.

So basically, you are complaining about power roles in the hands of noobs vs power roles in the hands of pros, because only noobs are going god mode on other townies. If BMG designed roles around how idiots use them, then the game wouldnt be as much fun as what it is, when playing with a group of pros.

[MaskedPokerFace]

Taking time to prove yourself = less time for mafia majority = mafia advantange

Many games I have seen lost because people gave evil factions a night ''to prove'' themselves. Many times, a night is all you need. Or my favourite, not lynching either of the TI claims, even tho 1 of them has to be fake. It doesnt solve anything and the next day you have to decide between the same 2 targets to lynch, again.

Sometimes death is the only way to confirm yourself, and a 1 for 1 trade off, by lynching/exeing early is a huge town advantage. Not to mention a huge late game advantage, when town decides to give someone ''time to prove'' themselves, (time that town clearly didnt have...) and doesnt vote, a jailor/vigi exe can be the difference between which faction holds majority.

So basically, you are complaining about power roles in the hands of noobs vs power roles in the hands of pros, because only noobs are going god mode on other townies. If BMG designed roles around how idiots use them, then the game wouldnt be as much fun as what it is, when playing with a group of pros.

Well if you read my first post ,i pointed community but you did understand what is my point clearly but you are defending it with your wrong idea. if OP roles are enough to ruin all gameplay of other roles with hands of noobs, BM must debuff this kind of roles or must redesign them for a solution "like a delayed power",at the point some tis and protectives will rule the gameplay better than 1 or 2 townie classes and as i said ,jailor and mayor are 2 proven townie roles for each others to delete all other tis gameplay in game and this roles are being op for neus,while neus are fighting against mafia and town.
Edit: gamplay of townies must give a life tolerance to Neus against mafia group and i believe that delayed days will not be a problem against mafia because there are tons of Town killing in game veteran vigis bguard etc. jailor and mayor must be last solution if they will be proven role easily in game.
Btw have you got coven dlc? pirates are cool neus mostly sides with townie but they need to keep balances well before last coven or townie.

[Boredfan1]

BM may remove night execution from jailor, i tell you as an old tos player and you will see everything will be better for both side players of gameplay at below.
Jailor is enough to get information from night jailing and roleblocking without execution. this 2 specialities are enough for jailor to be different from escort.
espacially, Jailors cant judge persons as judges, so they havent got any right to execute someone without judgement.
at this point, BM must change this role and must add extra specialities for jailor as example; jailor can take immunity at nights if none is in prison

People will STILL complain because the town has a easily confirmable escort essentially. And it becomes an even stronger escort if it has night immunity. Also, they shouldn't get immunity for not having someone in prison, that makes no sense and rewards people who are negligent of their duty. Just leave the jailor alone, other things can fix this problem like having a counter role.

My other idea is mayor mustnot turn into a declarated mayor manually ,mayor must be a candidate before 3rd or up days and turns into mayor if survives.

So basically, add the Mayor Candidate role which after three days becomes the mayor. I don't really see the point. It doesn't change a whole lot, just idiots revealing the first two days. However, this would only work if there were multiple candidates who would then be nothing but a single vote until they become mayor. But then, how would the game decide who gets to be mayor? Even if you solve that problem, that leaves the others as dead roles, unable to confirm themselves and that's just unfair to the players and the town. Just leave mayor alone or reduce it to two votes.

[MaskedPokerFace]

BM may remove night execution from jailor, i tell you as an old tos player and you will see everything will be better for both side players of gameplay at below.
Jailor is enough to get information from night jailing and roleblocking without execution. this 2 specialities are enough for jailor to be different from escort.
espacially, Jailors cant judge persons as judges, so they havent got any right to execute someone without judgement.
at this point, BM must change this role and must add extra specialities for jailor as example; jailor can take immunity at nights if none is in prison

People will STILL complain because the town has a easily confirmable escort essentially. And it becomes an even stronger escort if it has night immunity. Also, they shouldn't get immunity for not having someone in prison, that makes no sense and rewards people who are negligent of their duty. Just leave the jailor alone, other things can fix this problem like having a counter role.

My other idea is mayor mustnot turn into a declarated mayor manually ,mayor must be a candidate before 3rd or up days and turns into mayor if survives.

So basically, add the Mayor Candidate role which after three days becomes the mayor. I don't really see the point. It doesn't change a whole lot, just idiots revealing the first two days. However, this would only work if there were multiple candidates who would then be nothing but a single vote until they become mayor. But then, how would the game decide who gets to be mayor? Even if you solve that problem, that leaves the others as dead roles, unable to confirm themselves and that's just unfair to the players and the town. Just leave mayor alone or reduce it to two votes.

i said to be different from escort...
You said invulnerable Escort? i didnt say invulnerable escort i said "Jailor gets shield if none is jailed"(Jail protection)
Mayor candidate is not a role that to be voted to be Mayor ,it is a statu before auto-declare for mayor.
My soultions is not "MUST", my real point is to remove dominating roles for other roles.

[kyuss420]

either way, it ruins the game for good players. As I said, roles shouldnt be designed around how dumb people use them. Stupidity is a factor out of BMGs control, and shouldnt be taken into account when designing/nerfing/buffing roles. Roles shoudnt be nerfed because of bad players and potential bad plays.

Every role can potentially screw town over in the hands of a noob. eg:
Escorts can RB TPs, leaving important roles unprotected, (should we make town escort immune, to counter the noobs?)
Transporters can trans important townies into vigilante targets (should we give town a 1 time vigi shield to counter noobs?)
Sheriff finding someone sus and pushing them, when the only evil left in game is a hex master. Or not pushing an arso because he ''seemed inno''
Spy, who cant figure out maf in a 4 man maf game, after 4 days.
Medium, with ''the dead say 6 is sus'' when the only dead are evils.
Any TI, checking the Vet ''to confirm''
Docs randomly healing mafia - happens a LOT in poisoner games (should we make evils heal immune?)
BGs randomly protecting mafia and dieing to vig (should we make evils protect immune? or make vigi bypass BGs?)

[MaskedPokerFace]

either way, it ruins the game for good players. As I said, roles shouldnt be designed around how dumb people use them. Stupidity is a factor out of BMGs control, and shouldnt be taken into account when designing/nerfing/buffing roles. Roles shoudnt be nerfed because of bad players and potential bad plays.

Every role can potentially screw town over in the hands of a noob. eg:
Escorts can RB TPs, leaving important roles unprotected, (should we make town escort immune, to counter the noobs?)
Transporters can trans important townies into vigilante targets (should we give town a 1 time vigi shield to counter noobs?)
Sheriff finding someone sus and pushing them, when the only evil left in game is a hex master. Or not pushing an arso because he ''seemed inno''
Spy, who cant figure out maf in a 4 man maf game, after 4 days.
Medium, with ''the dead say 6 is sus'' when the only dead are evils.
Any TI, checking the Vet ''to confirm''
Docs randomly healing mafia - happens a LOT in poisoner games (should we make evils heal immune?)
BGs randomly protecting mafia and dieing to vig (should we make evils protect immune? or make vigi bypass BGs?)

Dude ,this is the wrong point again you spotted;
roles in your example ; they will never be a role proven in game but jailor and Mayor.
You can say that "im escort" but you cant proof yourself with your speciality cause of consort and non-notificatons of game but game will give a notify to all that you are the mayor or a jailor jails you and there is no other mechanic for townies that shows "you are jailed tonight". stupidly acting against unproven roles is normal but you dont vote trial by following an escort's vote but mayor and jailor...
Or an escort doesnt kills without judge or night action if you are townie but mayor and jailor targets you to kill
Edit: i think you miss the point im talking about "trial without judge" not night actions only

[kyuss420]

mafia trial without judge every night, i see no problem with town roles having the same ability.

Problem in what you are saying : There will never be a proven role in game except for jailor and mayor. Correct. Now if nothing can be proven, then you have no option but to lynch, to confirm role slots. So youre basically contradicting yourself.

Also, I have lynched many scum because an escort said they were RBed on a particular night. Not the whole town are lieing, usually only 6 of them are, and by a mayor pushing them for roles and wills, you can figure out who is lieing fairly easily

[MaskedPokerFace]

mafia trial without judge every night, i see no problem with town roles having the same ability.

Problem in what you are saying : There will never be a proven role in game except for jailor and mayor. Correct. Now if nothing can be proven, then you have no option but to lynch, to confirm role slots. So youre basically contradicting yourself.

Also, I have lynched many scum because an escort said they were RBed on a particular night. Not the whole town are lieing, usually only 6 of them are, and by a mayor pushing them for roles and wills, you can figure out who is lieing fairly easily

i explained "the result of problem" and you prefered seeing "the start of problem" as a result;

Ofc mafia without judge because they are mafia but jailor and mayor are not mafia.
Townies havent got same ability because their killing abilities are indirect or delayed as vigilante like my auto-mayor idea.
bguard or vigilante etc. cant forces/dominate other class to follow their ideas or they cant target one person to trial iike a mayor.
As you said ;"Now if nothing can be proven, then you have no option but to lynch",
Agreed, but if mayor and jailor co-team-metaplay allows other roles proof themself then there will be an exited option not to be lynched.
Mayor doesnt push them to trial, someone starts VFR and Mayor comes out then Mayor starts VFR because no penalty for mayors all during game and Bguards comes out because of Mayor's stupid Trials and Bguards be an open target for mafia attacks then jailor starts to execute stupidly to see the truth.
Jailor doesnt touch any TP claims even if they are Mafia but mayor and jailor will execute all Tis and TKs because Jailor is a Ti ,TK and TP at sametime and
this happen allows all vigis shoot random before mayor,jailor lynch'em and as you see ,this 2 roles ruin the all game because 2 role speciality enough to ignore other townies speciality.

[MaskedPokerFace]

Ranked or Without ranked, These 2 classes of town is really easy to be proven in gameplay and they are being OP from start to end if +retri.
Because mafias guess there can be a jail night for them in short time.
like you know
in 15 players =day 2 starts with 1 or 2 dead + 2 Town provens and "4 mafia + 1 NK" , result 6-7 unproven left for all town.
1 player will be in trial day 2 and 1 is in jail for 2nd night, still 4-5 unproven left for day 3 for all town, and all these 4-5 unproven roles are being advantages of Townie side in Mayor-Jailor game because mafia cant kill jailor or MAYOR directly while Town has got too much support even NK warnings. BM must find a solution easy prove of this 2 TOWNIE ROLES. im about these jailor and mayor proof themself each other easily because jail speciality of Jailor.