Werewolf rework

[orangeandblack5]

Kind of off-topic here but what you want is risk.

Right now, claiming Jailor D1 works because there's basically no risk involved.

If there were associated risks, things that the scum could do that would cause this strategy to backfire, it would stop happening so much.

This change doesn't add all that much risk - it's one neutral, and you're still very weak to Bodyguard in particular.

Therefore, a better approach would involve giving multiple players ways to turn this strategy against the town. The NK could be one part, as could the NE, but giving the Mafia ways to deal with this strategy can help ensure that the point of risk is not limited to just one person.

To this end, bringing in roles like Osservatore help make this strategy much riskier - sure, you can still call for protection N1, but if the Mafia are able to gather the identity of every protective role from that, you aren't going to last very long. And that's as simple as making a Mafia-aligned Lookout clone. Other changes can add more risk here - a non-Town Transporter can make protection effectively useless, for example, while a role with a ninja strongman kill could end the Jailor without any fear of Lookouts or Doctors or Bodyguards. Lastly, decreasing the chances a TP that will be able to protect you will even spawn helps cover this, and so bringing in more multipurpose TP roles like the Marshal can help bring risk to this strategy as well without relying on a specific NK to roll.

All of these would do a better job of reducing the occurrence of early-game Jailor claims than just shifting WW's rampage forward a day.

[kosmo16]

I don't think it would do better job than possibility of finding 7 dead Townies D2.

[orangeandblack5]

We both know why that's not a good argument.

[MaskedPokerFace]

if you will complain jailor meta why did you want a ww change?
this is similar problem for each killing roles and i told that Jailor gameplay is OP for other roles even against townies.
if you are a jailor you can easily be a traitor for townies even game must call it traitor not jailor.
BM must remove night execution from jailor that i will tell you as an old tos player and you will see everything will be better for both side players of game at below.
Jailor is enough to get information from night jailing and roleblocking without execution. this 2 specialities are enough for jailor to be different from escort.
espacially, Jailors cant judge persons as judges, so they havent got any right to execute someone without judgement.
at this point, BM must change this role and must add extra specialities for jailor as example; jailor can take immunity at nights if none is in prison and
2 sides of town will need persuasion of town to trial at days. Mayor and jailor Co-teamplay will be blocked after mayor is jailed.
My other idea is mayor mustnot turn into a declarated mayor manually ,mayor must be a candidate before 3rd or up days and turns into mayor if survives.
With these changes; All Neus will be buffed a bit. everytime you dont need to buff all for a simple meta problem.

[UzayAltay]

I First one to answer @MaskedPokerFace , the main problem about town Roles is not Jailor , it is not Also Mayor . Yes , Jailor is stronger Than escort . Mayor is strong w/ 3 votes . But The main problem is not these . The main problem is Non-town Roles cant counterbalance . Let's assume there is A role aligned w/ Mafia , it can target A Player at night , and Every Non-Mafia Player try to visit that Player Will be Roleblocked ( even RB immune ones ) . I know This sounds OP , but that Actually Show What's OP in town , Lookout . Lookout Basicly prevent any operation from Mafia when simultaneously confirm most of town . Other two Roles that should be fixed as A priority are Retri , and spy . Not Jailor or Mayor . Its reason is spy and Lookout prevent Mafia Roles visiting efficiently , Lookout confirm town Roles at The Same time , and Retri give town 1 More member while confirm any medium claims . Another problem is Mafia Dont have enough Roles to balance town Roles , that cause problems . If We had Roles Like I Said above , or Like ninja/Strongman We didnt have that problem .

I cant say Kosmo's rework is very bad , but I Dont think it is A good one , too . It just make Werewolf A bit stronger , without touching main problems . I think A better one would be sth Like that :

" First attack = Night 2
In A night , if attack one and only one person , can attack next night , too .
"

[MaskedPokerFace]

I First one to answer @MaskedPokerFace , the main problem about town Roles is not Jailor , it is not Also Mayor . Yes , Jailor is stronger Than escort . Mayor is strong w/ 3 votes . But The main problem is not these . The main problem is Non-town Roles cant counterbalance . Let's assume there is A role aligned w/ Mafia , it can target A Player at night , and Every Non-Mafia Player try to visit that Player Will be Roleblocked ( even RB immune ones ) . I know This sounds OP , but that Actually Show What's OP in town , Lookout . Lookout Basicly prevent any operation from Mafia when simultaneously confirm most of town . Other two Roles that should be fixed as A priority are Retri , and spy . Not Jailor or Mayor . Its reason is spy and Lookout prevent Mafia Roles visiting efficiently , Lookout confirm town Roles at The Same time , and Retri give town 1 More member while confirm any medium claims . Another problem is Mafia Dont have enough Roles to balance town Roles , that cause problems . If We had Roles Like I Said above , or Like ninja/Strongman We didnt have that problem .

I cant say Kosmo's rework is very bad , but I Dont think it is A good one , too . It just make Werewolf A bit stronger , without touching main problems . I think A better one would be sth Like that :

" First attack = Night 2
In A night , if attack one and only one person , can attack next night , too .
"

Have you got Coven?

[UzayAltay]

I First one to answer @MaskedPokerFace , the main problem about town Roles is not Jailor , it is not Also Mayor . Yes , Jailor is stronger Than escort . Mayor is strong w/ 3 votes . But The main problem is not these . The main problem is Non-town Roles cant counterbalance . Let's assume there is A role aligned w/ Mafia , it can target A Player at night , and Every Non-Mafia Player try to visit that Player Will be Roleblocked ( even RB immune ones ) . I know This sounds OP , but that Actually Show What's OP in town , Lookout . Lookout Basicly prevent any operation from Mafia when simultaneously confirm most of town . Other two Roles that should be fixed as A priority are Retri , and spy . Not Jailor or Mayor . Its reason is spy and Lookout prevent Mafia Roles visiting efficiently , Lookout confirm town Roles at The Same time , and Retri give town 1 More member while confirm any medium claims . Another problem is Mafia Dont have enough Roles to balance town Roles , that cause problems . If We had Roles Like I Said above , or Like ninja/Strongman We didnt have that problem .

I cant say Kosmo's rework is very bad , but I Dont think it is A good one , too . It just make Werewolf A bit stronger , without touching main problems . I think A better one would be sth Like that :

" First attack = Night 2
In A night , if attack one and only one person , can attack next night , too .
"

Have you got Coven?

Nope
Coven is More balanced at now as far as I know , Because Coven's killing power balance it .