Fixing Town's Confirmability and Mafia's Weak Roles

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Re: Fixing Town's Confirmability and Mafia's Weak Roles

Postby JacksonVirgo » Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:29 pm

Boredfan1 wrote:-Basically what Potato said.

Yeah except it wouldn't work like that, Godfather will have detection immunity and framer/disguiser/arsonist and all those roles can mess with results so I don't really see the problem with the Spy change personally.

-Not much but that's why I like what we came up with over on my thread.

Yeah okay :D

-The thing is, the mafioso always does the factional kill so it would never use the RM's ability if implemented in this way.

If a mafia member is jailed the Mafioso can use their ability etc. I realise this needs a change and I am going to work on that soon

-Except when someone cc's transporter or TP which does happen. It's not always easy to prove because people don't always say that they were transed and a smart town relies on transported claims to verify a transporter's claim.

It's still fairly easy to confirm yourself as transporter though.

-Agreed, a retributionist should not exist with a medium however, that can be fixed by adjusting the RNG.
So the retributionist can bait Medium claims and then destroy them by reviving or claiming? No thanks

-True but the problem is, your suggestion doesn't fix this, you are trying to fix the symptoms and not the source. What we need are fixes to the evil roles and maybe some slight modifications to a couple town roles.

I think that if we combined this with orangeandblacks changes it would work quite well and be way more balanced I think
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Re: Fixing Town's Confirmability and Mafia's Weak Roles

Postby Boredfan1 » Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:50 pm

-It either has no useful effect or it gives the town too much information. It just doesn't work.

-You are ignoring what I said about TP......

-Merging the two roles won't fix anything...it's still a mess, we just need counter roles.

-Maybe but I dunno about orangeandblack's changes, haven't read them.
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Re: Fixing Town's Confirmability and Mafia's Weak Roles

Postby JacksonVirgo » Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:06 am

Boredfan1 wrote:-It either has no useful effect or it gives the town too much information. It just doesn't work.

It's better than the current spy

-You are ignoring what I said about TP......

If you quoted stuff so I didn't have to constantly check back I wouldn't miss stuff

-Merging the two roles won't fix anything...it's still a mess, we just need counter roles.

Counter-roles suck. And it fixes a lot actually

-Maybe but I dunno about orangeandblack's changes, haven't read them.

Read through 'em, I agree with most
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On-site FM Record: 11-0-11
Spoiler: Latest Town Game: VFM75 - Citizen - Win
Latest Scum Game: SFM79 - Coroner - Win
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Re: Fixing Town's Confirmability and Mafia's Weak Roles

Postby Boredfan1 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:04 am

JacksonVirgo wrote:
Boredfan1 wrote:-It either has no useful effect or it gives the town too much information. It just doesn't work.

It's better than the current spy

-You are ignoring what I said about TP......

If you quoted stuff so I didn't have to constantly check back I wouldn't miss stuff

-Merging the two roles won't fix anything...it's still a mess, we just need counter roles.

Counter-roles suck. And it fixes a lot actually

-Maybe but I dunno about orangeandblack's changes, haven't read them.

Read through 'em, I agree with most



-How does it make spy better?

-Nesting your replies within another's quote makes quoting the quote with the nestled reply isn't that great imo so I don't do it.

-Counter roles DON'T suck. they actually make it harder on town so that they can't have everyone confirmed super easy, giving evils a chance. And merging just makes a role that people will hate more than medium or ret.
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Re: Fixing Town's Confirmability and Mafia's Weak Roles

Postby JacksonVirgo » Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:11 am

Boredfan1 wrote:
JacksonVirgo wrote:
Boredfan1 wrote:-It either has no useful effect or it gives the town too much information. It just doesn't work.

It's better than the current spy

-You are ignoring what I said about TP......

If you quoted stuff so I didn't have to constantly check back I wouldn't miss stuff

-Merging the two roles won't fix anything...it's still a mess, we just need counter roles.

Counter-roles suck. And it fixes a lot actually

-Maybe but I dunno about orangeandblack's changes, haven't read them.

Read through 'em, I agree with most



-How does it make spy better?

-Nesting your replies within another's quote makes quoting the quote with the nestled reply isn't that great imo so I don't do it.

-Counter roles DON'T suck. they actually make it harder on town so that they can't have everyone confirmed super easy, giving evils a chance. And merging just makes a role that people will hate more than medium or ret.

1. The current spy is one giant cockwagon of a role. It has a passive ability that's bs and it's bugs are the only thing that is good but even then it's weak as balls. So this one makes the role dynamic and you can make or break the game depending on how the role is used.
2. I dont understand what you're meaning
3. Having a role just to counter another is usually bad. Why would merging Retri and medium make them hate it more?
Pronouns - They/Them

On-site FM Record: 11-0-11
Spoiler: Latest Town Game: VFM75 - Citizen - Win
Latest Scum Game: SFM79 - Coroner - Win
Latest Neutral Game: SFM72 - Failed Assassin - Win
Last updated 02.12.20 AEST
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Re: Fixing Town's Confirmability and Mafia's Weak Roles

Postby Boredfan1 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:44 am

JacksonVirgo wrote:3. Having a role just to counter another is usually bad. Why would merging Retri and medium make them hate it more?


So consort is bad? Consigliere is bad?

The answer is no, they aren't. These are counter roles that make it so that escort and consort cannot instantly be confirm just because someone is role blocked or because someone has a invest result. They create claim space and give the evil roles opportunity to get rid of the town as well as other evil roles. Most of the bad roles aren't even counter roles. Jester, survivor, executioner, werewolf, serial killer, arsonist, disguiser, etc.
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Re: Fixing Town's Confirmability and Mafia's Weak Roles

Postby JacksonVirgo » Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:50 am

Boredfan1 wrote:
JacksonVirgo wrote:3. Having a role just to counter another is usually bad. Why would merging Retri and medium make them hate it more?


So consort is bad? Consigliere is bad?

The answer is no, they aren't. These are counter roles that make it so that escort and consort cannot instantly be confirm just because someone is role blocked or because someone has a invest result. They create claim space and give the evil roles opportunity to get rid of the town as well as other evil roles. Most of the bad roles aren't even counter roles. Jester, survivor, executioner, werewolf, serial killer, arsonist, disguiser, etc.

What do you think I am trying to do?
Pronouns - They/Them

On-site FM Record: 11-0-11
Spoiler: Latest Town Game: VFM75 - Citizen - Win
Latest Scum Game: SFM79 - Coroner - Win
Latest Neutral Game: SFM72 - Failed Assassin - Win
Last updated 02.12.20 AEST
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