Age group servers with Age verification

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Age group servers with Age verification

Postby RedHeadStepChild » Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:45 pm

Greetings!

Now what unity is mostly up and running, I know this is probably going to get shot down, like most ideas but This one actually has merit. And i know its probably not going to happen due to someone making the reasoning of, "oh that takes too much time, or we cant do that, for whatever reason, or thats too harsh, blah blah blah". Everyone knows this game is going down in flames very quickly and think that this game will not last longer than 6 months. There are quite a few us of who actually enjoy the game that want to see it continue! So do not just shoot this idea down, actually think about it.

After talking to several people and getting their input and also given all the increasing toxicity that is coming into the game, most of which caused by people younger than 29, I had come up with an idea for Creating Age group servers. And having Age verification programs attached these servers. I know Paypal has age verification software as well as other games and other online sites, so do some research to find out which ones would work better, and believe me when I say its not as difficult as you may think.

Reasons for this idea are as follows,

1 - The original premise of this game was to provide family entertainment for all ages. Sadly this game has devolved into a pit of toxicity dealing with trolls, gamethrowers, cheaters, racists, bots, pedophilic usernames/chat, idiots thinking the rules dont apply to them, and people that get off on making others lives miserable because they're so miserable they wanna bring other people down with them. And most of the toxicity that is being brought into the game are people 29 years and younger. Do I even need to mention the whole "moonman" bullshit? that was done by college aged idiots.

2 - People who play this game who are Older, and by older I mean 35 and up, are sick and tired of having to play with these younger generations and also the younger generations hate playing with older folk. Both Older and younger people I have talked to wish they could just have game with people in their own age category. I highly support this, because us Gen-Xers really do not like dealing with crap all these millenials, Gen-Y, Gen-Zers bring into the game. Thinking that because things are a "meme" or "its just a name" or "Im just playing with my friends", that the rules do not apply. Plus not to mention the younger generations hate playing with us older folk and blame the older generations for all of their problems. The older folk come onto this game to have fun, have a few laughs and get away from all the hateful crap and the aforementioned toxicity that they have to deal with in their real lives, they do not want to have to come on and see the same crap online that they see in the real world. Plus the parents who actually play with their teenage and younger kids do not want their kid exposed to this crap.

3 - Many of you in power have said that this game carries a PG-13 rating, yet most of the crap that goes on goes well ABOVE the PG-13 rating. And if you dont think so, let me refer you to all of the reports that involve sexual explicit names, chat, wills, racists, pedos, furries, homosexual crap and everything else. I am not even going to mention all the foul harsh language. And NO popular usage of that kind of crap does NOT make it okay either!

There are more I am sure that other people can come up with, but those are the top 3 I can think of for now before this turns into a rant, which admittedly a lot of my previous posts seem to be.

But the ideas for the servers are these:

Server 1 - Ages 13 and younger - As it's been stated this game is rating pg-13 Keep 13 and younger kids in this server and closely monitor it. If you need to ask why this has to be monitored, then you need a serious wake up call. No one over 13 allowed in this server.

Server 2 - Ages 14 - 17 - Kids a little older but still younger than 18 - Who in most countries you have to be 18 to access certain sites, and purchase things like tobacco products, porno's, go in sex shops, even buying games at gamestop or online.. etc. No one under 14 or over 17 Allowed in this server. However I am sure this can be tweaked.

Server 3 - Ages 18-29 Young Adults and probably this is were most of the ToS player base reside. This is also where most of the toxicity is being brought into the game as well. In this age category. I can promise you most of the reports are against people that belong to this age group. Only Ages 18+ are allowed in this server. Profane language really doesnt need to be monitored here but the same rules apply as deal with racism, pedo, hatespeech against any group or anything like that, cheating, gamethrowing etc. People older than 29 Can join this server if they want to.

Server 4 - Ages 30 and older Probably the age group that has the least amount of players but still quite enough to have several games going. Across all game modes. and All standard rules apply. No one under 30 allowed in this server.

Server 5: General Server where any/all ages can play just like now but still retain all the crap you have now.

However, it could be tweaked that Server 1 and 2 could be joined as one, or server 2 and 3. There are always options for that. But we all know things are changing in the game and there are plenty of things in the game that need changed. This is one of the main ones. Aside of new roles, new game modes, that kind of thing.

So thats my idea. What are your thoughts?
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Re: Age group servers with Age verification

Postby MysticMismagius » Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:17 pm

The age rating of the game is with people following the rules in mind. Notice how a lot of online games, especially ones with lower than an M rating, will have a disclaimer that says "Online Interactions Not Rated by the ESRB." This is because you can't control, and therefore can't rate, what people do online. At best you can punish and build a community that shuns content inappropriate for the rating, but trolls will still do it and the disclaimer still needs to be there.

As far as splitting the servers, you really don't want that, even if you think you do. The servers split between Coven and Classic, and between foreign language lobbies, already cause problems with games in the less popular servers not getting filled. It'd be an absolute shitshow if the game was split into 30 pieces instead 6.
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Re: Age group servers with Age verification

Postby RedHeadStepChild » Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:23 pm

Actually its not really. There are several games who have several servers split for the reasons I listed and all of them are quite popular. Some are MMORPGs others are FPS, and other things.
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Re: Age group servers with Age verification

Postby MysticMismagius » Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:28 pm

But this is not one of them. ToS's playerbase is already too small, evident by Coven's relatively dead servers. Splitting up the servers by age group would murder this game.
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Re: Age group servers with Age verification

Postby RedHeadStepChild » Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:39 pm

Coven really isnt dead... VIP and any/all fill up quite quickly, as does lover. Though I think what would help is moving Dracula's Palace from classic to coven.
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Re: Age group servers with Age verification

Postby MysticMismagius » Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:46 pm

Oh yes, three modes out of, what, 7? And you think splitting these people into age groups would improve the situation?
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Re: Age group servers with Age verification

Postby RedHeadStepChild » Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:02 pm

As I stated mystic, several people who i have talked to, of a variety of ages said they'd rather play with people in their own age group. I mean do not get me wrong I know what you are saying totally. Believe me, but its proven that the way it is now is just too toxic of an environment.
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Re: Age group servers with Age verification

Postby MysticMismagius » Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:24 pm

Two things to note, though. First: Would splitting it up between age groups really stop the toxicity? Even if all the toxic people are within the same age group (which I very highly doubt) It's very easy to lie about your age on the internet, so toxic people can pretend to be older or younger than they really are and wreak havoc there.

Second: Would you rather come across toxic people every so often, or barely be able to play at all because there aren't enough people in your group playing your preferred game mode speaking your language to fill up a game outside of peak hours? This is what will happen if we split up the servers even more than they're already split.
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Re: Age group servers with Age verification

Postby Kirize12 » Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:09 pm

ok boomer
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Age group servers with Age verification

Postby barialto » Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:54 pm

I would love to see an age based server. I used to play for a few hours a day, but with the influx of younger, and more toxic players, I have scaled it pack to a couple of games a week. Were I playing with more mature players, I would likely increase my playing time again. And I know I am not alone in this.
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Re: Age group servers with Age verification

Postby Flavorable » Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:09 am

I think for this, the risk is way higher than the report. It's a money sink for the Devs, who would have to rent 5 more servers, not to mention the amount of money they'd have to pay to get some kind of age verification set up. Then you can add the fact that in the end: it won't really do anything, since, as Mystic said: people lie about their age.

Add to that:
Who says it's a specific age-group that make the infractions? You're over-generalizing like crazy, I'm a Gen Xer and the people I play with and are in my friends list are of all ages and well-behaved. I find it quite a bit of ageism to immediately say the younger generations cause the toxicity and rule breaks. There's people that break rules or are toxic in ALL age groups.

Personally I find that, if you want to split between age groups, find some people your age and go play in a party with them. Breaking up an entire community and making everyone wait an insane amount of time, because someone wanted to implement a ridiculous amount of servers, is simply ridiculous, for lack of better words. Especially when it's based on prejudice, ageism and narrow-mindedness.

And lastly:
Many of you in power have said that this game carries a PG-13 rating, yet most of the crap that goes on goes well ABOVE the PG-13 rating. And if you dont think so, let me refer you to all of the reports that involve sexual explicit names, chat, wills, racists, pedos, furries, homosexual crap and everything else. I am not even going to mention all the foul harsh language. And NO popular usage of that kind of crap does NOT make it okay either!

While there's always going to be bad apples, even in PG13 (ESRB Teen) games, I'm not quite sure how "furries" and "homosexual crap" wouldn't fall under that rating? Teens will talk about sex (including furries and homosexual "crap", as you call it), teens will use words like "fuck", teens will say stuff like "suck my dick". Nothing wrong with that.
And as for the stuff that is deemed punishable, when it gets reported, it gets punished. But you can't expect thousands of people to adhere to the personal beliefs of some. This is why we have ratings and this is why we have a report system.

Splitting up servers won't do anything to change language like that, it won't change people making racist remarks, it won't change people breaking rules.
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Re: Age group servers with Age verification

Postby Google » Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:22 am

Imagine making it over 30s
That 29 year old not mature enough
Not only does that make it harder to play games the majority of players are in their teens and younger.
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Re: Age group servers with Age verification

Postby RedHeadStepChild » Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:17 pm

barialto wrote:I would love to see an age based server. I used to play for a few hours a day, but with the influx of younger, and more toxic players, I have scaled it pack to a couple of games a week. Were I playing with more mature players, I would likely increase my playing time again. And I know I am not alone in this.



Thank you Barialto. This is one of the main reasons why I suggested this.

Flavorable wrote:I think for this, the risk is way higher than the report. It's a money sink for the Devs, who would have to rent 5 more servers, not to mention the amount of money they'd have to pay to get some kind of age verification set up. Then you can add the fact that in the end: it won't really do anything, since, as Mystic said: people lie about their age.

That's why there is age verification software, there are several online sites that use it. Plus not to mention discord could ALSO be used to help with this given how popular its becoming. and its not as difficult to acquire, use and set up as most people think.

Add to that:
Who says it's a specific age-group that make the infractions? You're over-generalizing like crazy, I'm a Gen Xer and the people I play with and are in my friends list are of all ages and well-behaved. I find it quite a bit of ageism to immediately say the younger generations cause the toxicity and rule breaks. There's people that break rules or are toxic in ALL age groups.

Personally I find that, if you want to split between age groups, find some people your age and go play in a party with them. Breaking up an entire community and making everyone wait an insane amount of time, because someone wanted to implement a ridiculous amount of servers, is simply ridiculous, for lack of better words. Especially when it's based on prejudice, ageism and narrow-mindedness.

And lastly:
Many of you in power have said that this game carries a PG-13 rating, yet most of the crap that goes on goes well ABOVE the PG-13 rating. And if you dont think so, let me refer you to all of the reports that involve sexual explicit names, chat, wills, racists, pedos, furries, homosexual crap and everything else. I am not even going to mention all the foul harsh language. And NO popular usage of that kind of crap does NOT make it okay either!

While there's always going to be bad apples, even in PG13 (ESRB Teen) games, I'm not quite sure how "furries" and "homosexual crap" wouldn't fall under that rating? Teens will talk about sex (including furries and homosexual "crap", as you call it), teens will use words like "fuck", teens will say stuff like "suck my dick". Nothing wrong with that.
And as for the stuff that is deemed punishable, when it gets reported, it gets punished. But you can't expect thousands of people to adhere to the personal beliefs of some. This is why we have ratings and this is why we have a report system.

Splitting up servers won't do anything to change language like that, it won't change people making racist remarks, it won't change people breaking rules.


Thank you for responding. I agree with a lot of what you say. But as far as not coming up with the money, you really think that the dev's dont have that kind of funds after letting people with previously banned accounts back after paying $5 over and over again to do the same crap? Of course they have the money! lets not kid ourselves here. Plus if they wanna make more money, move dracula's palace into coven side, why? because everyone who loves playing that mode who doesnt have coven will pay the extra $5 to buy the coven expansion. and Presto! More $$$. And it'll give the Coven side another mode to play with which will create more players. Just a little side suggestion here.

To respond to your comment of " you can't expect thousands of people to adhere to the personal belief's of some." You know several thousands of people think its quite okay to insult people of other religions, races, belief's, ethic groups, or for a black person to use what everyone else would consider racist hatespeech because they are that same color because that is what they were taught or something they learned. Yet those same people pay this game and still follow the rules. So those who actually read the rules ARE expected to follow said rules which some are based on the personal belief's of some.


To respond to this comment " Add to that:
Who says it's a specific age-group that make the infractions? You're over-generalizing like crazy, I'm a Gen Xer and the people I play with and are in my friends list are of all ages and well-behaved. I find it quite a bit of ageism to immediately say the younger generations cause the toxicity and rule breaks. There's people that break rules or are toxic in ALL age groups."
- If you actually read the post instead of just glancing over it like I am quite sure MOST of you did, you will see that it states "MOST" of the people that bring toxicity into this game are from that age category. yes I am fully aware that there is toxc behaviour in ALL age groups but I am going to say this again... MOST OF IT Comes from the younger generations. ( which btw You are technically not a Gen-x. Gen-x ended in 81, you are more classified as Gen-Y/Millenial )-

as far as over generalizing, dont be stupid. You and I both know its a bunch of kids and young adults doing it because they think its funny. I know you are smarter than that Flavorable. Please, you say you are Gen-X? Bloody act like it! use common sense which I know you have. No I am not insulting you

Also everytime I log on there are at least 5000 people or more playing at any given time, there were some times ive seen it drop to 3000 but, still that is still quite enough to have games. There are several games modes which are quite popular, Ranked, VIP, Lovers, Any/All, Dracula's Palace, A lot of the other modes are not. Another way to fix that is to get rid of the game mode that are not being played as much.



You know I know A lot of you think I posted this as a joke and talk shit about me and it all you want I could care less IN fact i find it quite amusing, so thank you for that. Just proves how ignorant you are.

I am trying to help save this game or suggest ideas to make it better, because this game is one I, and several other thousand people of all ages actually very much enjoy as i stated before. I see very few people trying to suggest things to make this game better, and those that do constantly get shot down. To those of you who are laughing behind my back and talking shit, I do not see you doing a damn thing to help this game. So before you start running your mouths, I suggest you actually throw some credible and sensible ideas out there instead of just shit posting because you're trying to insult the posters. Otherwise the only one who's looking like a dumbass is you.
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Re: Age group servers with Age verification

Postby MysticMismagius » Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:40 pm

You do realize that splitting the game 5 more ways with servers would stretch those 3000-5000 people a lot thinner than they already are, right? Take into account unequal distribution of players within a given age group, and you might get servers with only a few hundred people max, spread across 15 game modes. You can’t get games to fill under those conditions. Add to this the previously established fact that people who want to troll can simply lie about their age. This idea won’t do any good.
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Re: Age group servers with Age verification

Postby RedHeadStepChild » Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:47 pm

You do bring up a good point. However I have considered that, some of the people I talked to would rather play with a few people they actually get along with when there is no worry of toxic behavior, throwing, cheating etc.... Plus not to mention the number of game in where full groups of 15 come into a game all in a party together. I mean even the top ELO players were asking for something similar.

You even said it yourself you cannot stand playing with people who are toxic and cheat and what not.
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Re: Age group servers with Age verification

Postby MysticMismagius » Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:49 pm

When talking to these people, did you all consider that it would be significantly harder to get a game at all under these circumstances? It would most likely influence their decision.
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Re: Age group servers with Age verification

Postby RedHeadStepChild » Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:02 pm

Actually it really wouldnt. But thats why I said " the servers can be tweaked" always room for improvement. lets do some math here, Starting with the lowest numbers.

Okay as I stated before I've seen it drop down to just over 3000 players online as once. Across all servers, most of which in the more popular game modes. Now there are at most 15 per game. When there are some modes that have a minimum of 7 to play.

Now you take 3000 divide that by 15, you come up with 200. Which means there are at least 200 games being played. That is still quite a lot. So it will not be as bad as people think. the only ones are going to have a hard time struggling are game modes that are already struggling.

For instance people always complain about Coven games take for ever to fill up. They really do not. When I play VIP, Lovers, Any/all they usually fill up pretty quick. The longest Ive waited for a game is 15 min during the middle of the day when everyone is at work or in school. But at night time the games fill up quick. You gotta keep in mind peak times as well. Granted I understand that people play from all over the world, but that does not stop them from logging on and playing together regardless of what time zones they are in.

Some people dont like certain game modes or only stick to one or 2 game modes because they do not want to be exposed to dealing with all the toxic shit, gamethrowing and cheating that happens. This is another reason why I suggested this. because people from all ages have told me these things. from as young as 14 to as old as mid-50's.
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Re: Age group servers with Age verification

Postby MysticMismagius » Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:11 pm

First off, those 200 games are, as mentioned earlier, being split across 15 game modes and 3 languages. That’s 45 ways to split it up. If you multiply the 5 age group servers, you get 225 divisions... of 200 games. You simply cannot fill every mode with a full game this way.

Your games fill up quickly because the game modes you like are popular. If you liked Mafia Returns, or Coven Custom, you would know the agony of not being able to play your favorite game mode because it never fills up with enough people. With your suggestion applied, this problem would get much, much worse. Honestly I think even the most popular game modes would take a heavy blow from this.

Also: why do you think this would stop toxicity? Even in the miracle best-case scenario, where nobody lies about their age or uses someone else’s information to make an account for them, the toxic assholes have to go somewhere. Someone is still going to be put on the server with them, and it’ll be harder to escape them when there are far fewer people in the pool of players a given person can play with. This suggestion reads like wanting to take the toxic players who you think are all much younger than you, and shoving them somewhere else just so you don’t have to deal with them, at the expense of innocent youngsters who just want to play.
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Re: Age group servers with Age verification

Postby RedHeadStepChild » Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:19 pm

You also have to remember there are several people who speak more than one language on those servers. So if they speak more than one language they can play on those servers. But like I said before. Everything can be tweaked. All suggestions good or bad, will not be perfect at the start. Thats why when you implement them, you start out and fix as you go along. Its the same with the unity engine.

I really do not like going into custom games for a variety of reasons. But that is just me. But I do understand what you mean I really do Mystic.

Toxic is across all game modes all ages, but like I put in my original post "most" and No i am not generalizing it, of it comes from the younger age groups and Older folk hate playing with people like that, and younger hate playing with older folk. I dont mind playing with people from all ages I really do not. especially when everyone gets along and there is no cheating or gamethrowing or spite revealing or anything like that especially when these youngster's ego are bruised or they decide to make the game crap because they get called out when they get caught cheating or throwing, or creating IU's because they think its funny or whatever the case may be. The point is that Older generations do not like playing with immature people like that, and the younger generations do not like playing with older folk, and the reasons Ive seen are, " we are old, we have no sense of humor, we are all boomers, we are too uptight, we are too harsh we take things way too seriously". And the older folk have said they dont like playing with younger generations because " they are too immature, they have a sense of entitlement, they think they can do whatever the hell they want, they think they are being funny, they thing the rules do not apply to them because everyone else is doing it and nothing's happening to them to they can do the same thing. "

People of all ages have stopped playing completely or do not play as much because of all the toxic behavior. I know a family of 6 who used to love to play on a daily basis but after being exposed to a big group of teenagers talking racist and sexual shit and trying to create a racist they no longer play. And several other people have followed suit why? because its only getting worse.
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Re: Age group servers with Age verification

Postby MysticMismagius » Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:27 pm

But this suggestion is not the kind that’s in need of “tweaks”. It’s inherently broken, useless at fixing the problem it purports to be trying to solve, and exacerbating other problems in its wake. No matter how you tweak it, splitting up the game into age-based servers will not help.
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Re: Age group servers with Age verification

Postby RedHeadStepChild » Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:32 pm

MysticMismagius wrote:But this suggestion is not the kind that’s in need of “tweaks”. It’s inherently broken, useless at fixing the problem it purports to be trying to solve, and exacerbating other problems in its wake. No matter how you tweak it, splitting up the game into age-based servers will not help.


You know as well as I do, things always get worse before they get better why? because most people do not like change. especially when they're used to things going a certain way for so long.
yet nearly EVERYONE agrees this game NEEDS to change.
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Re: Age group servers with Age verification

Postby MysticMismagius » Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:35 pm

How does that have anything to do with what I just said? I’ve explained six ways to Sunday why this suggestion won’t improve the game, regardless of revulsion against change. I don’t disagree with your suggestion for the sake of “not liking change,” I disagree because of the arguments I’ve made above. The game needs to change, but this is not the change we need.
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Re: Age group servers with Age verification

Postby RedHeadStepChild » Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:49 pm

And you know what they are all valid points, but I have also stated the reasons to the contrary. I mean there are good points and bad points to every discussion. Im not saying i think of everything, bceause there are always things that I do not see but I do really try to see it from as many perspectives as I can.

you may feel its not the change we need, and I very much respect that, but after long consideration of everything thats happened since the game, and why the game went P2P, and I've been thinking about this for quite some time, and Ive talked to so many people about this older and younger. Believe me when i say i have rewritten this post Several times. my first draft was a lot more abrasive.

I mean some thing has to give somewhere. And I know several people just threw their hands in the air and said Fuck it! If i cant beat them Ill join them... Really? and you wonder why the shit is getting bad again.
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Re: Age group servers with Age verification

Postby Flavorable » Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:53 pm

Not gonna quote, cause I don't feel I need to:

Yes, I am saying the Devs don't have the money for this. The data breach, mass e-mails and hiring a new security firm alone cost tens of thousands of dollars. So hiring 5 more servers (technically perhaps even 15 if all those servers would be split between the languages they are now) is WAY too expensive for issues that could be handled much differently.

Also, again, as Mystic has already stated multiple times, it's simply not doable logistically. You forget that not all online players are actually actively playing a game. Off-peak there's about 30-50 games total going on, and assuming there's 15 people in each game, would mean that with the splitting of the servers, there would be, at off-peak hours, approximately 2-3 players available per game, per server.

So to quote Mystic:

It has nothing to do with not liking change. It has to do with your suggestion simply not being feasible. And I understand that that might rub you the wrong way and make you jump into your playing-the-victim mode where you lash out and try to be smart about insulting people (which I do believe I've told you to stop doing on multiple occasions), since it's not the answer you want, but it is, however, true.
You're basically pulling facts out of your behind just to back up your suggestion.

So, personally I say, again, if you have so many people that agree with you, just stick to playing with them. And I'm sure BMG is always interested in suggestions, but they do have to actually be suggestions that work and not suggestions that would run both the company and it's playerbase into the ground.
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Re: Age group servers with Age verification

Postby Hagg1s » Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:48 pm

OP's suggestions have no basis and are rooted in vast misconceptions and stereotypes about different age groups. OP is using fictitious self-fabricated generalizations regarding the perspective of the collective TOS player base towards these different groups of people (which really should be insulting to anyone who falls into each of them i.e. everyone) to rationalize these completely unfeasible suggestions.

A better suggestion would be to have a matchmaking client enable me to block someone in game and not be placed in the same lobby/game as them. Much easier to implement but still totally unfeasible given how this game works and how small the playerbase is.
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