Town of Salem 3.0 (Exploring The Post-Unity Future)

[Royee]

That is just a disadvantage when you roll cit. But it requires from you to play and think without relying on your role.
I personally like to play as citizen.
You will never know whether people like to play as cit till u won't try.

people leave as mediuum.

Yeah exactly, Citizen would just make the game boring as shit anyway. Sure Citizens are cool for games like Forum Mafia and local Mafia/Werewolf games with friends or a convention but in a game like this, with people who leave as weak roles there would only be more leavers than there already are and thus the game would just fall flat and die out.

If you throw in a game where everyone is a goon/citizen with one cop it's just boring as shit for half an hour as there are less chances for scum to slip up then it's practically a ranked game of 'lynch randomly until the cop finds someone' game. So no

My point was based on sarcasm, while it had a meaning behind.
I understand that people will probably not be happy to roll citizen/goon and without any scum reading skills it will be rng based. I actually like playing medium.
Anyway the OP suggestions are too much and unnecessary to the game.

[Royee]

That is just a disadvantage when you roll cit. But it requires from you to play and think without relying on your role.
I personally like to play as citizen.
You will never know whether people like to play as cit till u won't try.

people leave as mediuum.

Yeah exactly, Citizen would just make the game boring as shit anyway. Sure Citizens are cool for games like Forum Mafia and local Mafia/Werewolf games with friends or a convention but in a game like this, with people who leave as weak roles there would only be more leavers than there already are and thus the game would just fall flat and die out.

If you throw in a game where everyone is a goon/citizen with one cop it's just boring as shit for half an hour as there are less chances for scum to slip up then it's practically a ranked game of 'lynch randomly until the cop finds someone' game. So no

My point was based on sarcasm, while it had a meaning behind.
I understand that people will probably not be happy to roll citizen/goon and without any scum reading skills it will be rng based. I actually like playing medium.
Anyway the OP suggestions are too much and unnecessary to the game.

i too enjoy accepting mediocrity because changes that would make the game significantly better are not absolutely mandatory

Those changes could actually hurt the game instead of fixing it.

[Royee]

That is just a disadvantage when you roll cit. But it requires from you to play and think without relying on your role.
I personally like to play as citizen.
You will never know whether people like to play as cit till u won't try.

people leave as mediuum.

Yeah exactly, Citizen would just make the game boring as shit anyway. Sure Citizens are cool for games like Forum Mafia and local Mafia/Werewolf games with friends or a convention but in a game like this, with people who leave as weak roles there would only be more leavers than there already are and thus the game would just fall flat and die out.

If you throw in a game where everyone is a goon/citizen with one cop it's just boring as shit for half an hour as there are less chances for scum to slip up then it's practically a ranked game of 'lynch randomly until the cop finds someone' game. So no

My point was based on sarcasm, while it had a meaning behind.
I understand that people will probably not be happy to roll citizen/goon and without any scum reading skills it will be rng based. I actually like playing medium.
Anyway the OP suggestions are too much and unnecessary to the game.

i too enjoy accepting mediocrity because changes that would make the game significantly better are not absolutely mandatory

Those changes could actually hurt the game instead of fixing it.

i can't see most of these changes being harmful to any significant extent outside of potential temporary player backlash

the only ones i take any decent issue with are addition of Hypnotist because it's bastard (though it's probably a good addition for non-ranked/rp modes, but definitely not for ranked/rp) and addition of Shapeshifter because it's bastard the role (probably just bad in all respects)

the rest of the changes are either good, minorly good, largely redundant or minorly bad as compared to the current game imo

though i will say that quite a few changes, while significantly better than in the current version of the game, are not as good as they could be imo. namely the spy and werewolf reworks.

mafia style lookout? who would that help? the 1 lynch delay before they find out you are osservatore? the idiotic maf member who will confirm town 1 by 1?
does tos really need a marshal? there are tons of other tp roles, why marshal?
op just killed the idea of ne.
the new spy is just parity cop.
forger needs to be removed and mafia need that tactical kill change.
just change the role list in a way that max tpower is 1.
arso is fine as it is. same with sk.
everything else should be fine

[kyuss420]

hypnotist literally isn't bastard

I dont know why he (OP) describes hypno as ''1 of covens finest''. It is literally a fairly useless role, that only fools noobs.
Hypno cant claim TS, it doesnt make any TS claims look sus and cause mislynches... all a trans has to do is trans 2 different people n1 to confirm himself.
Seeing a ''you were RBed'' can only fool a non visiting target, who didnt try and use their ability.
Using the ''you were attacked and healed/you were attacked and protected'' only works if there was no maf/NK kill, if there were 2 kills, hypno is outed (cos there is no other attacking role to do the attack). Using it every night and claiming doc also makes you look sus af, cos no doc is that good
Invest sees you as trans, escort, consort or hypno, so you cant claim doc in an invest game, and the TS claim falls apart very easily, just by showing a will
An early TS claim falls apart very fast late game, when you get promoted to mafioso and no longer can use your ''TS abilities'' (and late game, with a dead mafioso, is when you need your claim holding together) - its just a free ''gimmee'' for town

[Royee]

hypnotist literally isn't bastard

I dont know why he (OP) describes hypno as ''1 of covens finest''. It is literally a fairly useless role, that only fools noobs.
Hypno cant claim TS, it doesnt make any TS claims look sus and cause mislynches... all a trans has to do is trans 2 different people n1 to confirm himself.
Seeing a ''you were RBed'' can only fool a non visiting target, who didnt try and use their ability.
Using the ''you were attacked and healed/you were attacked and protected'' only works if there was no maf/NK kill, if there were 2 kills, hypno is outed (cos there is no other attacking role to do the attack). Using it every night and claiming doc also makes you look sus af, cos no doc is that good
Invest sees you as trans, escort, consort or hypno, so you cant claim doc in an invest game, and the TS claim falls apart very easily, just by showing a will
An early TS claim falls apart very fast late game, when you get promoted to mafioso and no longer can use your ''TS abilities'' (and late game, with a dead mafioso, is when you need your claim holding together) - its just a free ''gimmee'' for town

what

[kyuss420]

hypnotist literally isn't bastard

I dont know why he (OP) describes hypno as ''1 of covens finest''. It is literally a fairly useless role, that only fools noobs.
Hypno cant claim TS, it doesnt make any TS claims look sus and cause mislynches... all a trans has to do is trans 2 different people n1 to confirm himself.
Seeing a ''you were RBed'' can only fool a non visiting target, who didnt try and use their ability.
Using the ''you were attacked and healed/you were attacked and protected'' only works if there was no maf/NK kill, if there were 2 kills, hypno is outed (cos there is no other attacking role to do the attack). Using it every night and claiming doc also makes you look sus af, cos no doc is that good
Invest sees you as trans, escort, consort or hypno, so you cant claim doc in an invest game, and the TS claim falls apart very easily, just by showing a will
An early TS claim falls apart very fast late game, when you get promoted to mafioso and no longer can use your ''TS abilities'' (and late game, with a dead mafioso, is when you need your claim holding together) - its just a free ''gimmee'' for town

what

too long/didnt read?

Hypno is a shit role. Its easily spotted, easily outed to anyone with half a brain. None of the hypno messages will ''confirm you'' as anything except for a hypno, because half the time the message that is hypnoed at you is impossible to have occured.

Most of my day 2s in all any: ''Hypno wanted me to think I was RBed'' ''Hypno wanted me to think I was poisoned'' ''2 of us were controlled? Oh, so we have hypno or 2''

late game in all any: ''2 guys died, I was attacked and healed, but theres only 2 killing roles alive, the doc that healed me is hypno'' ''This guy has only transported himself for 5 days, hes hypno'' ''escort stopped RBing, he was consort/hypno''

let alone the ''attacked and protected'' message, which, in classic would result in a dead BG. So theres 4 messages that could be used in classic, 2 of them would out a hypno early game, and the other 2 would out a hypno late game.....It would basically become a sit at home for 3 nights then visit once (if MK is jailed/RBed), kinda role in classic.

[JacksonVirgo]

I have a few other ideas which I was going to post separately but I felt I wouldn't clutter the suggestions forum so this seems like a good place to shove it.

General Mafia (enhancing the 'informed minority' part)

• Any information gained or notifications for immunity, veteran etc is given to all Mafia at the end of the night.
• For example, consigliere, janitor roles/wills are shown to all Mafia. If Mafia hits an immune, all Mafia will be notified. If one is Transed, all notified.

Godfather (total investigative immunity)

• Can select which investigator results they will appear as (someone may have suggested this)
• Godfather can pseudo visit when not performing the factional kill (Lookouts and Trackers will see their visit)

Disguiser (more dynamic gameplay/deception)

• Night ability to disguise any Mafia as a specific player, having them show as the disguised roles to Sheriffs and Investigators as well as have that Mafia member see whoever the Mafia is disguised as visit.
• Night ability to disguise yourself as any player, regardless of faction, and visit with their face and results.
• Lookouts will see whoever the Mafia disguised as, as the visit and Trackers will see them visit over their actual visit.
• Does not show the disguised role upon death for the other members, only if the Disguiser disguised themselves the night they died

Framer

• Frames stay until they're checked by Investigator/Sheriff.
• You can frame a player as a specific role instead of framer/vamp/jest/hex

Forger/Janitor (not wasting abilities)

• These roles only lose a use if the kill actually succeeds
• Allow Janitor to target Mafia so they get cleaned.
• Janitor can clean a Jailor's execution.
• Allowing Janitor to clean a player if they're lynched the day after they are cleaned OR implement my Equivacator or similar role.

Transporter/Escort/Witch (more dynamic and less confirmable roles with the benefit of a more extendable game system if BMG wants to add more roles)

• Their results will show as "Your visit or visitors were obstructed! You were roleblocked, redirected or transported!".
• Transporters' first target will be notified, not the second.

Medium

• Now unique for balance purposes
• Not confident on this one but perhaps merging Retributionist and Medium, to stop Ret confirming all mediums but still have the medium in game as well as a revive.

Hope these aren't all garbage/already suggested lol

[Royee]

hypnotist literally isn't bastard

I dont know why he (OP) describes hypno as ''1 of covens finest''. It is literally a fairly useless role, that only fools noobs.
Hypno cant claim TS, it doesnt make any TS claims look sus and cause mislynches... all a trans has to do is trans 2 different people n1 to confirm himself.
Seeing a ''you were RBed'' can only fool a non visiting target, who didnt try and use their ability.
Using the ''you were attacked and healed/you were attacked and protected'' only works if there was no maf/NK kill, if there were 2 kills, hypno is outed (cos there is no other attacking role to do the attack). Using it every night and claiming doc also makes you look sus af, cos no doc is that good
Invest sees you as trans, escort, consort or hypno, so you cant claim doc in an invest game, and the TS claim falls apart very easily, just by showing a will
An early TS claim falls apart very fast late game, when you get promoted to mafioso and no longer can use your ''TS abilities'' (and late game, with a dead mafioso, is when you need your claim holding together) - its just a free ''gimmee'' for town

what

too long/didnt read?

Hypno is a shit role. Its easily spotted, easily outed to anyone with half a brain. None of the hypno messages will ''confirm you'' as anything except for a hypno, because half the time the message that is hypnoed at you is impossible to have occured.

Most of my day 2s in all any: ''Hypno wanted me to think I was RBed'' ''Hypno wanted me to think I was poisoned'' ''2 of us were controlled? Oh, so we have hypno or 2''

late game in all any: ''2 guys died, I was attacked and healed, but theres only 2 killing roles alive, the doc that healed me is hypno'' ''This guy has only transported himself for 5 days, hes hypno'' ''escort stopped RBing, he was consort/hypno''

let alone the ''attacked and protected'' message, which, in classic would result in a dead BG. So theres 4 messages that could be used in classic, 2 of them would out a hypno early game, and the other 2 would out a hypno late game.....It would basically become a sit at home for 3 nights then visit once (if MK is jailed/RBed), kinda role in classic.

Ok boomer
Hypno is actually mafia saving role

[JacksonVirgo]

Ok boomer
Hypno is actually mafia saving role

It really isn't, if people have to say "I was attacked and healed or there's a hypno", it's a terrible deceptive role

[Royee]

+ who cares about all any?
We are talking about ranked practice role list.

[Royee]

Ok boomer
Hypno is actually mafia saving role

It really isn't, if people have to say "I was attacked and healed or there's a hypno", it's a terrible deceptive role

Then you don't know how to play around your role.

[JacksonVirgo]

Ok boomer
Hypno is actually mafia saving role

It really isn't, if people have to say "I was attacked and healed or there's a hypno", it's a terrible deceptive role

Then you don't know how to play around your role.

9 times out of 10, it's usefulness is next to the Forgers or Disguisers

[Royee]

Ok boomer
Hypno is actually mafia saving role

It really isn't, if people have to say "I was attacked and healed or there's a hypno", it's a terrible deceptive role

Then you don't know how to play around your role.

9 times out of 10, it's usefulness is next to the Forgers or Disguisers

It proves nothing to me.

[kyuss420]

Ok boomer
Hypno is actually mafia saving role

Ive never seen a hypno save maf, ever.

There is literally nothing it can claim in an investi game.

Town roles receive their nights info before they receive the ''you were roleblocked'' message

Every transporter transes 2 people night 1 to confirm themselves, if you havent transed 2 people on 1 night, youre lynched. If 3 people claim transed day 2, hypno is confirmed.

2 killing roles in classic ranked. If NK is dead and maf kills, but someone was ''attacked and healed'' a hypno is confirmed. Same goes if 2 people are killed and someone receives the message. It never confirms you as a doc.

''attacked and protected'' - no crus or trapper in classic ranked, so no dead BG = hypno game

2+2=4, the only players youre fooling as hypno, are silver ELO and below. It really doesnt reduce confirmability of TS roles. Consort does a better job at that.

[Royee]

Ok boomer
Hypno is actually mafia saving role

Ive never seen a hypno save maf, ever.

There is literally nothing it can claim in an investi game.

Town roles receive their nights info before they receive the ''you were roleblocked'' message

Every transporter transes 2 people night 1 to confirm themselves, if you havent transed 2 people on 1 night, youre lynched. If 3 people claim transed day 2, hypno is confirmed.

2 killing roles in classic ranked. If NK is dead and maf kills, but someone was ''attacked and healed'' a hypno is confirmed. Same goes if 2 people are killed and someone receives the message. It never confirms you as a doc.

''attacked and protected'' - no crus or trapper in classic ranked, so no dead BG = hypno game

2+2=4, the only players youre fooling as hypno, are silver ELO and below. It really doesnt reduce confirmability of TS roles. Consort does a better job at that.

in other words you don't know how to play tos; i mean it's your problem if you can't read the game as mafia. tho i am not sure if you were talking about yourself.
in the end we both know the devs will never put hypno and tracker into the main game.

[WiseNj58]

You're trying to rework the entire game, and it's really not needed. There's only a couple things that need to be fixed realistically. Adding all these new roles and changing literally 60% of the roles and how they operate just isn't feasible.



1. Jester gets basic immunity.

2. Spy can't see framer visits

3. Add Ambusher to mafia roles, remove forger from the game.


Quick and easy. Ranked would substantially benefit. The entire elo system needs to be redone, as well as reset.

Also, as a bonus, I'm not going to go on and on about the Retributionist role, but one of the better solutions I've seen is make it required that they not only live until the end of the game, but also that they can revive from any faction. Again, simplicity.

[JacksonVirgo]

Ok boomer
Hypno is actually mafia saving role

It really isn't, if people have to say "I was attacked and healed or there's a hypno", it's a terrible deceptive role

thats literally not any different than "jacksonvirgo is sus or theres a framer"

Yeah, I do realize that and that's why it needs a drastic change in my opinion. A change like having the Framer select the role of which the target will be framed as, including Mafia members. Selecting a specific role for the Framer to frame their target with instead of just frame/vamp/jest and not just alignments invest/consig/mayor which shows as Suspicious to the Sheriff. If they frame someone as Investigator, they will show as inno with invest/consig/mayor but if they frame someone as Consigliere it will show as sus with those same results.

tl;dr
Make framer so that if sheriff checks someone, no matter the result it should be 'or there's a framer' instead of just when there are sus results for more balance.

Likely made no sense here

[kyuss420]

in other words you don't know how to play tos; i mean it's your problem if you can't read the game as mafia. tho i am not sure if you were talking about yourself.
in the end we both know the devs will never put hypno and tracker into the main game.

Exactly, so why push to add a role that basically forces you to stay home until the MK is jailed so you can use the ''attacked and healed'' message... I thought the whole point was to get rid of useless mafia roles, that people will quit day 1 if they roll it...

[Royee]

in other words you don't know how to play tos; i mean it's your problem if you can't read the game as mafia. tho i am not sure if you were talking about yourself.
in the end we both know the devs will never put hypno and tracker into the main game.

Exactly, so why push to add a role that basically forces you to stay home until the MK is jailed so you can use the ''attacked and healed'' message... I thought the whole point was to get rid of useless mafia roles, that people will quit day 1 if they roll it...

Now you are talking about something else.
Hypno is already at coven. The devs will never bring it to the regular tos, end of discussion.

[Royee]

in other words you don't know how to play tos; i mean it's your problem if you can't read the game as mafia. tho i am not sure if you were talking about yourself.
in the end we both know the devs will never put hypno and tracker into the main game.

Exactly, so why push to add a role that basically forces you to stay home until the MK is jailed so you can use the ''attacked and healed'' message... I thought the whole point was to get rid of useless mafia roles, that people will quit day 1 if they roll it...

Now you are talking about something else.
Hypno is already at coven. The devs will never bring it to the regular tos, end of discussion.

thats literally not true

When did they say that?
And i have never seen a hypno leaving the game.

[Royee]

in other words you don't know how to play tos; i mean it's your problem if you can't read the game as mafia. tho i am not sure if you were talking about yourself.
in the end we both know the devs will never put hypno and tracker into the main game.

Exactly, so why push to add a role that basically forces you to stay home until the MK is jailed so you can use the ''attacked and healed'' message... I thought the whole point was to get rid of useless mafia roles, that people will quit day 1 if they roll it...

Now you are talking about something else.
Hypno is already at coven. The devs will never bring it to the regular tos, end of discussion.

thats literally not true

When did they say that?
And i have never seen a hypno leaving the game.

can you prove that the devs have said they will never bring it to regular tos? the burden of proof is on you.

iceclimbers once told us that the devs won't add tracker because it was in sc2 mafia and they already rejected it so they wouldn't add it later. guess what's in the game now?

i have never said that the devs had said it directly. i hope i am wrong about this.

[DragonClaw66]

Hypno is already at coven. The devs will never bring it to the regular tos, end of discussion.

That's just Royee thinking aloud that the developers won't add those roles to classic TOS. If they had said "the developers said they wouldn't...", it would be a different story.

I'm currently scanning the forums to see if the developers ever said they weren't going to add expansion roles to classic TOS (I am fairly sure they did). Unfortunately, I'm probably not going to find that thread.

[DragonClaw66]

Devs have already stated multiple times that Coven roles will NOT be added to Classic.

Link

Not a developer comment, but Flavorable is pretty reliable seeing as how they are a GMod.

[WiseNj58]

remove forger from the game.

the only solid thing in your post

I mean it's quite obvious you don't play ranked then. Ask anyone in the top 20 who is actually good (Curry, yeeZy, rushed, Wind, Benoit, Elise, Holly, myself, Sunflower, hell even Layla would probably agree) and they'll tell you the three things I suggested are spot on. Why do people who know nothing of the ranked community comment on how the ranked community should be run? Quite weird


EDIT: haha, 1554 elo with a Ranked win loss rate of 49.4%. Nice one mate, please don't tell me what is solid when you aren't even a plat LOL

[MysticMismagius]

You don't have to play Ranked to be good at the game, or understand balance. This just reads like pulling rank for the sake of pulling rank (and being a dick to boot).