Adding more Role lists for Ranked

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Adding more Role lists for Ranked

Postby LairesTheUnscaled » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:59 pm

I think it would be great to make different role lists for Non-coven Ranked, so players can choose what is best for them from 2-3 options let's say.

First new role list could have more randomness to it, making Town weaker while maintaining good chances for NK and Mafia to win, kind of like old Ranked, but without "Any". Add 1 Neutral, Remove 1 RT, forbid Retributionist. I think that would by itself be enough to make experienced players want to try it out to see if it balances the game.

Second could be more focused on Neutral Killing, so maybe add 2nd NK, while removing 1 RM from Mafia to make the game more about finding NK instead of Mafia. Give NE more options than to just simply side with NK, because in this game mode, they are the strong faction.

I would love to know what others think about this. I realize ToS may not have enough playerbase for multiple ranked queues, so it could hurt the game by spreading competetive community into different queues and making them wait longer for games, so maybe make it like a testing 3 month period for community to get feel for each Ranked option and at the end of it, pick the one they liked the most and make it replace current Ranked role list.

Maybe this is just a stupid idea or it's too much work for you, but PLEASE, add SOMETHING new to Ranked. I'm really starting to hate the current gameplay, because I realize it's more and more about what role you get, and not how good you are at the game. Town = win, Mafia = loss, NK = -1 elo NE = usually fun
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Re: Adding more Role lists for Ranked

Postby Brilliand » Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:33 pm

Ranked should not give players a choice of rolelists. Since it's a competitive environment, they would be choosing the rolelist that gives them the best odds of gaining ELO, hence the most unbalanced rolelist.

Ranked does need some changes, but it doesn't work to make those changes optional.
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Re: Adding more Role lists for Ranked

Postby Flake » Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:27 am

i think the optimal play is to remove ranked
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Re: Adding more Role lists for Ranked

Postby SwampRabbit » Sat Oct 05, 2019 10:26 am

LairesTheUnscaled wrote:I think it would be great to make different role lists for Non-coven Ranked, so players can choose what is best for them from 2-3 options let's say.

First new role list could have more randomness to it, making Town weaker while maintaining good chances for NK and Mafia to win, kind of like old Ranked, but without "Any". Add 1 Neutral, Remove 1 RT, forbid Retributionist. I think that would by itself be enough to make experienced players want to try it out to see if it balances the game.

Second could be more focused on Neutral Killing, so maybe add 2nd NK, while removing 1 RM from Mafia to make the game more about finding NK instead of Mafia. Give NE more options than to just simply side with NK, because in this game mode, they are the strong faction.

I would love to know what others think about this. I realize ToS may not have enough playerbase for multiple ranked queues, so it could hurt the game by spreading competetive community into different queues and making them wait longer for games, so maybe make it like a testing 3 month period for community to get feel for each Ranked option and at the end of it, pick the one they liked the most and make it replace current Ranked role list.

Maybe this is just a stupid idea or it's too much work for you, but PLEASE, add SOMETHING new to Ranked. I'm really starting to hate the current gameplay, because I realize it's more and more about what role you get, and not how good you are at the game. Town = win, Mafia = loss, NK = -1 elo NE = usually fun



I played through all the many role list trials on ranked classic. And OMG were some of them unbalanced. lol. The current one is far more balanced than any of the old ones you referenced. So I definitely would not want to revert to a more unbalanced list.

Your second option, adding a second NK. Picture this, on n1, mafia kills town, plus 2 SKs both kill town (because both NKs can be SKs)--3 townies dead so now there are 6 town versus 6 evils and town lost by n1. Extremely unbalanced suggestion even taking away 1 RM.

As far as having multiple ranked role list that people can choose, ranked needs to be everyone playing the same game or it is pointless.

(and to the kid who suggested removing ranked completely, I counter with remove chaos completely. See how absurd that is? If you do not like ranked, then don't play it.)
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Re: Adding more Role lists for Ranked

Postby LairesTheUnscaled » Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:16 am

Well I agree these role lists are not perfect, I spent like a minute thinking about each, so maybe adjust it so make it just 2 Maf, 2 NK and 2 Neutrals, rest Town. It honestly doesn't matter to me if THIS EXACT role list gets used, over completely different one, I just want to see some change in current Ranked meta and that's what this post is all about basically. I want to see more support for NK and less support for Town. Maf should get every game 1 MS instead of RM, because with 2 RMs you can get like 2 Forgers, or 2 Disguisers, and that's really not fun to play with. There should be at least one GOOD RM guaranteed, if nothing, at least that could be changed.
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Re: Adding more Role lists for Ranked

Postby JacksonVirgo » Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:11 pm

My personal opinion is that Town has it way too easy, especially with Jailor/Town Power and the TP/LO meta.

My suggestion, instead of adding different role-lists, is to remove Jailor/Town Power as a role slot entirely as well as making the Town Power alignment unique, so only one can appear in any given game.

Regarding the Mafia, changing one RM slot to an RS is something that I'd personally love to see. Would make Mafia's win rate not as swingy relying on the RM roles majority of the time.

Regarding Neutral Killings, all Neutral Killings need a buff and that's not something new. Practically what NK is at the moment is a tool to the Mafia to get more KPN to try and outnumber town quicker with a small threat of them hitting mafia. That's how I use it anyway. SK is practically a solo GF and I hate it, they need to be solely stronger than a faction role because they're alone and SK just isn't. WW has restricted kills (which I hate) and Arsonist's douses are unreliable as Mafia/Town could kill your targets which is unfortunate in an NK.
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Re: Adding more Role lists for Ranked

Postby Brilliand » Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:14 pm

SwampRabbit wrote:(and to the kid who suggested removing ranked completely, I counter with remove chaos completely. See how absurd that is? If you do not like ranked, then don't play it.)


Flake is aware that the things he says are absurd. No need to tell him when he's shitposting.
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Re: Adding more Role lists for Ranked

Postby LairesTheUnscaled » Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:25 pm

Brilliand wrote:Ranked should not give players a choice of rolelists. Since it's a competitive environment, they would be choosing the rolelist that gives them the best odds of gaining ELO, hence the most unbalanced rolelist.

Ranked does need some changes, but it doesn't work to make those changes optional.

Do you think if Classic role list got Elo system, people would switch to it just because they can farm Elo faster there? I don't know. Usually the community sticks to what they call most fun, and if experienced players - big heads of community, say that one game mode is more balanced than others and enjoy it way more as any given role, I think people would switch to that over time. At least the experienced ones that know how to play and enjoy more balanced games. I think these players are exactly the ones who play Ranked in the first place.

Also I meant for each game mode to have its own Elo rating for EACH Role list. so you would farm elo on Role list 1 and reached platinum, then switched to Role list 2 and had to play first 10 games to get any Elo for that mode etc. get the picture I hope.
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Re: Adding more Role lists for Ranked

Postby Brilliand » Sat Oct 05, 2019 10:48 pm

LairesTheUnscaled wrote:Also I meant for each game mode to have its own Elo rating for EACH Role list. so you would farm elo on Role list 1 and reached platinum, then switched to Role list 2 and had to play first 10 games to get any Elo for that mode etc. get the picture I hope.


Oh, multiple separate Ranked modes... that's an OK idea, but I think it would split the community too much. Unlike the other gamemodes, Ranked needs dedicated players who play many games in order to work well.
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Re: Adding more Role lists for Ranked

Postby JacksonVirgo » Sat Oct 05, 2019 10:57 pm

LairesTheUnscaled wrote:Also I meant for each game mode to have its own Elo rating for EACH Role list. so you would farm elo on Role list 1 and reached platinum, then switched to Role list 2 and had to play first 10 games to get any Elo for that mode etc. get the picture I hope.


The current playerbase wouldn't be big enough for that I wouldn't think.
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