Lots of modes never get played anymore

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Lots of modes never get played anymore

Postby ZackTheMaf666 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:14 am

Rainbow, coven classic, coven ranked practice, coven custom, and rapid mode are hardly played. To the point of where I’ve never played half of them. There should be an even where these modes get you double merit points so people would actually play them, and players who don’t want to wait for 30 minutes to play a 10 minute game actually get a chance to play them. Maybe one mode gets you double merit every Thursday, and it swaps around the modes. Maybe once a month there’s something that happens that gets one mode double merit points one weekend. It really doesn’t matter to me what happens, I just want a chance to play a mode the devs took so long to make.

As for rapid mode specifically, there could be a rapid mod of every mode (except for ranked). You click on the game mode and there’s a rules tab, create party, play solo, create party (rapid), and play solo (rapid).
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Re: Lots of modes never get played anymore

Postby Flavorable » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:44 pm

As for the Coven modes:

I'm fairly sure even if they gave double merit points, the majority of the Coven playerbase still wouldn't play those modes, since most of us have more merit points than we can spend already.
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Re: Lots of modes never get played anymore

Postby MysticMismagius » Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:19 pm

Flavorable wrote:As for the Coven modes:

I'm fairly sure even if they gave double merit points, the majority of the Coven playerbase still wouldn't play those modes, since most of us have more merit points than we can spend already.
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Re: Lots of modes never get played anymore

Postby Flavorable » Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:14 am

MysticMismagius wrote:
Flavorable wrote:As for the Coven modes:

I'm fairly sure even if they gave double merit points, the majority of the Coven playerbase still wouldn't play those modes, since most of us have more merit points than we can spend already.
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Speak for yourself.


I said most, not all.
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Re: Lots of modes never get played anymore

Postby Flake » Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:23 am

rapid mode should never exist in the first place for a game that is already too fast to make most skill traits the game should be encouraging actually worthwhile

at the speed of rapid mode it's basically a game of night actions and results which makes the game even more braindead/linear, especially since it takes away time in phases where discussion is most vital

literally the only half decent thing about rapid mode is it's good for the rare occasion where someone needs to shave about 5 minutes off their game (assuming the game mode wasn't dead), but if they don't have like at least 20/25 minutes to play the game then they probably shouldn't be playing at all anyway

slow mode would be something actually worthwhile since it'd place higher emphasis on play through discussion, something that virtually all modes of ToS desperately needs

something similar to {15s D1 / 75s Discussion / 45s Voting / 20s Defense / 25s Judgement / 5s Last Words / 45s Night} might be good, adding most time in phases where discussion holds most weight and where more time would generally be desirable, but not adding too much time to the point where the game can feel drawn out
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Re: Lots of modes never get played anymore

Postby KatiyaKramer » Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:39 am

Flake wrote:rapid mode should never exist in the first place for a game that is already too fast to make most skill traits the game should be encouraging actually worthwhile

at the speed of rapid mode it's basically a game of night actions and results which makes the game even more braindead/linear, especially since it takes away time in phases where discussion is most vital

literally the only half decent thing about rapid mode is it's good for the rare occasion where someone needs to shave about 5 minutes off their game (assuming the game mode wasn't dead), but if they don't have like at least 20/25 minutes to play the game then they probably shouldn't be playing at all anyway

slow mode would be something actually worthwhile since it'd place higher emphasis on play through discussion, something that virtually all modes of ToS desperately needs

something similar to {15s D1 / 75s Discussion / 45s Voting / 20s Defense / 25s Judgement / 5s Last Words / 45s Night} might be good, adding most time in phases where discussion holds most weight and where more time would generally be desirable, but not adding too much time to the point where the game can feel drawn out

I used to play a lot of Rapid Mode back in the day and I had a lot of fun out of it. It was that extra bit of insanity that made it fun for me. I think it's kind of meant to be another chaotic mode where it's more about folks having fun than it is being balanced.
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Re: Lots of modes never get played anymore

Postby azurillia » Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:04 pm

Flavorable wrote:As for the Coven modes:

I'm fairly sure even if they gave double merit points, the majority of the Coven playerbase still wouldn't play those modes, since most of us have more merit points than we can spend already.


Coven's rotating modes are enjoyable; the classic modes for Coven simply sucks for obvious reasons
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Re: Lots of modes never get played anymore

Postby kyuss420 » Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:01 am

Flake wrote:rapid mode should never exist in the first place for a game that is already too fast to make most skill traits the game should be encouraging actually worthwhile

at the speed of rapid mode it's basically a game of night actions and results which makes the game even more braindead/linear, especially since it takes away time in phases where discussion is most vital

literally the only half decent thing about rapid mode is it's good for the rare occasion where someone needs to shave about 5 minutes off their game (assuming the game mode wasn't dead), but if they don't have like at least 20/25 minutes to play the game then they probably shouldn't be playing at all anyway

slow mode would be something actually worthwhile since it'd place higher emphasis on play through discussion, something that virtually all modes of ToS desperately needs

something similar to {15s D1 / 75s Discussion / 45s Voting / 20s Defense / 25s Judgement / 5s Last Words / 45s Night} might be good, adding most time in phases where discussion holds most weight and where more time would generally be desirable, but not adding too much time to the point where the game can feel drawn out


This is the first ''buff town'' post Ive seen in weeks
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Re: Lots of modes never get played anymore

Postby Soulshade55r » Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:55 pm

How about they think of game modes with claim space, dracular palace for example succs.

so does rainbow and most coven game modes.
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Re: Lots of modes never get played anymore

Postby Google » Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:13 am

ok
plan


1. add mafia tactical kills
2. add town power
3. fix the balance of game modes instead of making them more gimmicky or chaotic
4. banish rapid to t h e v o i d
maybe then we can start getting modes played again
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Re: Lots of modes never get played anymore

Postby Xlranet » Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:16 am

Flavorable wrote:As for the Coven modes:

I'm fairly sure even if they gave double merit points, the majority of the Coven playerbase still wouldn't play those modes, since most of us have more merit points than we can spend already.

imma just take this as a callout and you cant stop me ;-;
coven custom has its own unique playerbase and its pretty prominent if you get into the discord part of it
lots of people who could join but wont due to the threat of just waiting at 9 players lol
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Re: Lots of modes never get played anymore

Postby Flake » Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:41 pm

KatiyaKramer wrote:
Flake wrote:rapid mode should never exist in the first place for a game that is already too fast to make most skill traits the game should be encouraging actually worthwhile

at the speed of rapid mode it's basically a game of night actions and results which makes the game even more braindead/linear, especially since it takes away time in phases where discussion is most vital

literally the only half decent thing about rapid mode is it's good for the rare occasion where someone needs to shave about 5 minutes off their game (assuming the game mode wasn't dead), but if they don't have like at least 20/25 minutes to play the game then they probably shouldn't be playing at all anyway

slow mode would be something actually worthwhile since it'd place higher emphasis on play through discussion, something that virtually all modes of ToS desperately needs

something similar to {15s D1 / 75s Discussion / 45s Voting / 20s Defense / 25s Judgement / 5s Last Words / 45s Night} might be good, adding most time in phases where discussion holds most weight and where more time would generally be desirable, but not adding too much time to the point where the game can feel drawn out

I used to play a lot of Rapid Mode back in the day and I had a lot of fun out of it. It was that extra bit of insanity that made it fun for me. I think it's kind of meant to be another chaotic mode where it's more about folks having fun than it is being balanced.

i mean sure but there are other game modes with forms of chaos (i.e all any, custom, dracula's palace) that are widely considered to be more unique and fun, which is why they aren't dead game modes

honestly "slow mode" as a singular game mode shouldn't exist either, it probably dies similarly to rapid mode, because it isn't distinct enough when compared to the standard game.

phase times should just be lengthened to place higher emphasis on discussion across the board. maybe not to the extent which i previously suggested, but honestly just like a +15s increase on discussion and night phases and maybe like +5/10s on voting would make the game vastly better in terms of making more inconspicuous desirable skill traits more prominent in terms of affecting the game's outcome (e.g manipulation, persuasion, presence, etc) and making other arguably less desirable traits that are currently very over-centralising less prominent in terms of affecting game's outcome, namely the speed at which one can play the game

kyuss420 wrote:
Flake wrote:rapid mode should never exist in the first place for a game that is already too fast to make most skill traits the game should be encouraging actually worthwhile

at the speed of rapid mode it's basically a game of night actions and results which makes the game even more braindead/linear, especially since it takes away time in phases where discussion is most vital

literally the only half decent thing about rapid mode is it's good for the rare occasion where someone needs to shave about 5 minutes off their game (assuming the game mode wasn't dead), but if they don't have like at least 20/25 minutes to play the game then they probably shouldn't be playing at all anyway

slow mode would be something actually worthwhile since it'd place higher emphasis on play through discussion, something that virtually all modes of ToS desperately needs

something similar to {15s D1 / 75s Discussion / 45s Voting / 20s Defense / 25s Judgement / 5s Last Words / 45s Night} might be good, adding most time in phases where discussion holds most weight and where more time would generally be desirable, but not adding too much time to the point where the game can feel drawn out


This is the first ''buff town'' post Ive seen in weeks

an idea indirectly giving town higher utility than it would scum isn't a "buff town" post

if you want to minimise town utility you go about it in virtually any of the many possible ways that doesn't involve preventing an improvement to one of the game's largest gaping design flaws
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Re: Lots of modes never get played anymore

Postby kyuss420 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:35 am

meh, i think theres plenty of time during day chat to give and comprehend info if town use it wisely... many games town doesnt even want to share info until day 3 or 4 for noobish reasons. I also think theres plenty of time to vote...if town cant decide within the time frame, or dont wanna claim until theyre actually on the stand, then thats a misplay and they deserve to be punished for it.

Extra time at night favors the evils more than town, but they should know what theyre going to do, reflecting on the day chat anyway... so not really needed.

Maybe the extra time would be handy for bronze - gold ELO ranked town matches, but above that it shouldnt really be needed. Town should know what theyre doing, and should be punished if they dont do it.
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Re: Lots of modes never get played anymore

Postby kyuss420 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:01 am

Soulshade55r wrote:How about they think of game modes with claim space, dracular palace for example succs.

so does rainbow and most coven game modes.


Hmmm claim space in chaos modes you say?

lovers - yea not much claim space, TS role early game or TP, as long as you have a lover to back your claim, unless solo medusa is actually doing their job and didnt leave n1 cos ''single evil is too hard win as''. Other than that, kill all lover claims and push the other evils and hope to get lucky.

Vip - claim space isnt really needed to win, its not last man standing and requires different tact than other modes. Basically claim TP, get cc's, kill cc's, leave VIP open and unprotected for the last standing coven to kill.
So many noobs afraid to attack TP claims, end up with 1 coven needing 3 nights to kill 2 TPs and then the VIP, and then cry about no claim space.... like, not BMGs fault you chose to kill a sheriff instead of a trapper or crus and put yourself in that situation. Not BMGs fault you claimed sheriff on the n1 psy vision and got the sheriff to cc instead of claiming doc/BG and getting the doc/BG protecting the crus to out themselves.

But basically both those modes have 3 claimable slots - TP slots. Ranked has 3 claimable slots - 3 RT slots, slightly different as the TIs are random TIs etc, but once theyre dead and the role is known, the claim space is drastically reduced, especially if the RT slots are confirmed early (2 TKs for eg. leaves 2 RT slots).

Rainbow - isnt that the mode where you dont wanna claim town? like a All Any game i had, mayor revealed and pushed on me day 2, I said ''All evils vote the mayor!'' 4 maf, 2 coven and 2 jesters, voted him up and lynched him. The next day no one was claiming to be town XD everyone was nuetral for some reason lol


Point being, I like the gamemodes that you have to play in a different style, it stops the game getting boring, and can improve your game in normal styles of play too. for example, Im sure the TP/LO on jailor was thought of by a VIP player, i mean tracker is usually on the crus claim night 1 to confirm.
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Re: Lots of modes never get played anymore

Postby Flake » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:56 am

kyuss420 wrote:meh, i think theres plenty of time during day chat to give and comprehend info if town use it wisely... many games town doesnt even want to share info until day 3 or 4 for noobish reasons. I also think theres plenty of time to vote...if town cant decide within the time frame, or dont wanna claim until theyre actually on the stand, then thats a misplay and they deserve to be punished for it.

Extra time at night favors the evils more than town, but they should know what theyre going to do, reflecting on the day chat anyway... so not really needed.

Maybe the extra time would be handy for bronze - gold ELO ranked town matches, but above that it shouldnt really be needed. Town should know what theyre doing, and should be punished if they dont do it.

there very arguably is not nearly enough time to keep track of claims, mechanically inferring from role list, claiming when required, keeping night information and other information in will, going through to find and remember all potentially useful information directly from night results, etc. even if you are very fast. let alone information from vote count analysis, player interactions, utilising discussion to your advantage via a multitude of ways, among other things.

the low amount of time guarantees that multiple of the things here cannot humanly be utilised well, and usually those multiple things are going to be the ones that aren't more necessary and actually require skills outside of just remembering or noting down information (namely the latter things in my previous list)

giving the player significantly fewer options by a low time limit than they would otherwise have, of which options largely encompass skills that should be prominent in mafia because braindead mechanical play takes up most of the given time, is just not good game design, and most of the current tos playerbase just settles for mediocrity in that regard because practically no one who plays tos knows any better
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