Make bussing without consent considered gamethrowing.

[Maximus20]

Title says all.

[MysticMismagius]

Sometimes you decide that it’s best bus your teammate because they’re bad or AFK. In cases like this you shouldn’t have to wait all game for dead weight to come around and give you their permission to make them useful.

[Brilliand]

The last time I bussed a fellow maf, it was a spur-of-the moment decision where I saw the town starting to turn against them, and decided to take credit for "catching" them before the town did it on their own. This all happened during one day, so there was no time to discuss it beforehand.

I don't think that should be considered gamethrowing. (Though the person I did it to actually accused me of gamethrowing, and I think even outed me to the medium?)

[Maximus20]

You guys do have a valid point, so I think that I want to retype what I just said, How about spite bussing? Like two mafia members are arguing in the chat and he just decides to buss him because he doesn't like him, or bussing his own mate d2 with no suspicion on him and he's just ending a guy's game early for no reason at all? There may be no way to get around this thing for bussing but sometimes spite bussing is very unfair don't you think?

[JacksonVirgo]

If you purposely bussed a mafia to specifically make your team lose, it's gamethrowing such as bussing a Mafia because you didn't like them. If you do it in order to win, regardless if it is justified or not, it isn't such as if a mafia busses another Mafia hoping it'd help them win, not gamethrowing.

[Brilliand]

You guys do have a valid point, so I think that I want to retype what I just said, How about spite bussing? Like two mafia members are arguing in the chat and he just decides to buss him because he doesn't like him, or bussing his own mate d2 with no suspicion on him and he's just ending a guy's game early for no reason at all? There may be no way to get around this thing for bussing but sometimes spite bussing is very unfair don't you think?

This sounds like it might be reportable as "harrassment".

[Maximus20]

This sounds like it might be reportable as "harrassment".

Would it be legit though? Because one time this happened to me, the guy outed me d2 for no reason at all he told me he was going to do it, I told him not to, and he did it so I also outed him and he got me suspended while nothing happened to him.

[Maximus20]

If you purposely bussed a mafia to specifically make your team lose, it's gamethrowing such as bussing a Mafia because you didn't like them. If you do it in order to win, regardless if it is justified or not, it isn't such as if a mafia busses another Mafia hoping it'd help them win, not gamethrowing.

So If I bussed someone who I didn't like, even though I did it "for the mafia to win" as an excuse basically, I can't be reported for that?

[JacksonVirgo]

Depends on the situation of course.
For example,

• Example 1: The Godfather is making stupid calls that will make the Mafia lose, so you out them the next day. Not gamethrowing.
• Example 2: You are under suspicion as an important Mafia role (consig, janitor that hasn't used all their cleans), and you instinctively out a mafia to confirm yourself. Not gamethrowing, if you out another important maf role though, then maybe.
• Example 3: You feel like confirming yourself so you out a Mafia role with no exact need for it, probably gamethrowing since more Mafia alive has more use than confirming one.

Point 1 has been done with me, the GF kept hitting the Jailor with a doc on them so I outted them D3-4 (forget which one) and we ended up in a 2v1 against mafia. If we hit a proper town one of those nights we could have one. We wouldn't have been that close if I didn't out them. But if you do it not with the intention of winning the game, it's gamethrowing.

[Maximus20]

Depends on the situation of course.
For example,

• Example 1: The Godfather is making stupid calls that will make the Mafia lose, so you out them the next day. Not gamethrowing.
• Example 2: You are under suspicion as an important Mafia role (consig, janitor that hasn't used all their cleans), and you instinctively out a mafia to confirm yourself. Not gamethrowing, if you out another important maf role though, then maybe.
• Example 3: You feel like confirming yourself so you out a Mafia role with no exact need for it, probably gamethrowing since more Mafia alive has more use than confirming one.

Point 1 has been done with me, the GF kept hitting the Jailor with a doc on them so I outted them D3-4 (forget which one) and we ended up in a 2v1 against mafia. If we hit a proper town one of those nights we could have one. We wouldn't have been that close if I didn't out them. But if you do it not with the intention of winning the game, it's gamethrowing.

Okay, I understand where you are coming from, Thank you.

[Maximus20]

This sounds like it might be reportable as "harrassment".

Would it be legit though? Because one time this happened to me, the guy outed me d2 for no reason at all he told me he was going to do it, I told him not to, and he did it so I also outed him and he got me suspended while nothing happened to him.

Unfortunately, I can see why you were the one suspended but he wasn't. The guy you reported COULD make the argument that he was just trying to be a believable town role very early on. Yes, you didn't agree to it, but this dude never SPECIFICALLY said he was doing it to spite you or to make his team lose. So, it's impossible to fully know his intentions. So, unfortunately, typically judges and mods just assume that they are bussing their mafia to try and be 'confirmed' very early. Even if you didn't give consent, THEY didn't really do it for a malicious reason, so that's probably why nothing happened to them.

For YOU, however, you flat-out just said that you spite-revealed them after they did this. That IS throwing and worthy of a suspension. Because, again, the point is 'intent'. It's like how you can only be suspended or banned if you CONFESS to quitting a game on purpose, or flat-out refuse to reveal your role as town if you're voted up to the stand and make it known you are throwing. Intent is everything. Because you confessed you did this out of spite, basically a "If you're going to do this to me, I'm going to do this to you!" move, that's why you got punished. Even if you did nothing to deserve being bussed, and you didn't agree to it, it's still a strategy (albeit a stupid one, in my honest opinion), so it doesn't really count as throwing. But spite-revealing your mafia to get back at them is.

The interesting part is how I outed him though he claimed lookout and said he saw me visit someone died (I was Godfather and mafioso wasn't jailed) I caught on to what he was doing and claimed sheriff and said he was mafia (that's how it was at that time) I proceeded to continue saying he is mafia because I'm sheriff and I checked him and he's lying, so from that the town noticed he was maf, the last still makes me laugh, the guy didn't die from hanging town nor being exed, he attacked a guy who the ww attacked and died as a result but he still chose to report me for some reason

[JacksonVirgo]

F

[Villagerlover]

I would agree with this 100% if and only if it can be categorized in a different name...

I understand if it's okay to buss mafia that are already suspicious, and you help to "confirm it" as mafia...or bussing members who are AFK. That's perfectly acceptable in my mind.

But if it's another active mafia member suddenly being bussed out of nowhere without consent, that's a pretty dick-move on the accuser's part. I can imagine how frustrating it would be if you were suddenly being used as a distraction by your own teammates even though you felt like you could've contributed more by staying alive.

Problem is, if the mafia busses a member out of nowhere and says they did it for the sake of keeping the team alive long-term, it's not necessarily "Gamethrowing" anymore.
But I still think it's a problem...

I'd like to think it could fit under "harrasment", but...again, it doesn't seem accurate either.

Maybe it could just be a new category of reports. "Bussing without permission" or whatever.

[Brilliand]

Harrassment is for if you're maliciously targeting a specific person. If you're doing it because you dislike the person, then that fits under "harrassment". If you're just a jerk in general, and bussing an unwilling teammate just 'cause you want to play that strategy, then there's currently no valid report reason for that.

[Villagerlover]

Harrassment is for if you're maliciously targeting a specific person. If you're doing it because you dislike the person, then that fits under "harrassment". If you're just a jerk in general, and bussing an unwilling teammate just 'cause you want to play that strategy, then there's currently no valid report reason for that.

Yeah exactly. You're right. There is no valid report reason for that.

Let's fix that.

[Maximus20]

I would agree with this 100% if and only if it can be categorized in a different name...

I understand if it's okay to buss mafia that are already suspicious, and you help to "confirm it" as mafia...or bussing members who are AFK. That's perfectly acceptable in my mind.

But if it's another active mafia member suddenly being bussed out of nowhere without consent, that's a pretty dick-move on the accuser's part. I can imagine how frustrating it would be if you were suddenly being used as a distraction by your own teammates even though you felt like you could've contributed more by staying alive.

Problem is, if the mafia busses a member out of nowhere and says they did it for the sake of keeping the team alive long-term, it's not necessarily "Gamethrowing" anymore.
But I still think it's a problem...

I'd like to think it could fit under "harrasment", but...again, it doesn't seem accurate either.

Maybe it could just be a new category of reports. "Bussing without permission" or whatever.

I do agree with this 100%, the fact that I'm doing my best and thinking that I could actually contribute by being alive and then being accused out of nowhere, especially by my own teammates just makes everything bad, it doesn't seem fair indeed, there are A LOT of things that fall under harassment tbh but some people would just disguise it and say "it's for the greater good" But I do feel that if its proven on trial that you were playing, being active and actually helping the mafia then it should somewhat be filed for harassment since it seems like you were being picked on.

[Maximus20]

Harrassment is for if you're maliciously targeting a specific person. If you're doing it because you dislike the person, then that fits under "harrassment". If you're just a jerk in general, and bussing an unwilling teammate just 'cause you want to play that strategy, then there's currently no valid report reason for that.

Yup, that's why I am suggesting it.

[Flavorable]

I don't agree that it should be reportable in any way, shape or form, to be honest.

I have played too many games with fellow faction members that thought they weren't being overly obvious when they were and where they could actually lose us the game if kept alive. And when it comes to themselves, people always assume they're not being harmful to their team, even though they are.

In the end, it's about having the intent to win the game. Sometimes you bus someone, sometimes you get bussed. If it's for the benefit of the win, I don't see an issue with it.
It's not any less fair than being stuck in a game where you have to lose because someone is extremely harmful to your faction, just because you have to be careful people might report you. And there are a lot of situations where people are a genuine threat to the win of the game, or where you see an easy opportunity to "confirm" yourself as town when you're not by sacrificing a teammember.
Otherwise it'd be like a Bodyguard that's refusing to protect anyone because they might die.
It's about doing what's best for the team and not always doing what's best for a person who doesn't want to die. Heck, bussing unwilling teammates is sometimes even detrimental to the win.

[Maximus20]

I don't agree that it should be reportable in any way, shape or form, to be honest.

I have played too many games with fellow faction members that thought they weren't being overly obvious when they were and where they could actually lose us the game if kept alive. And when it comes to themselves, people always assume they're not being harmful to their team, even though they are.

In the end, it's about having the intent to win the game. Sometimes you bus someone, sometimes you get bussed. If it's for the benefit of the win, I don't see an issue with it.
It's not any less fair than being stuck in a game where you have to lose because someone is extremely harmful to your faction, just because you have to be careful people might report you. And there are a lot of situations where people are a genuine threat to the win of the game, or where you see an easy opportunity to "confirm" yourself as town when you're not by sacrificing a teammember.
Otherwise it'd be like a Bodyguard that's refusing to protect anyone because they might die.
It's about doing what's best for the team and not always doing what's best for a person who doesn't want to die. Heck, bussing unwilling teammates is sometimes even detrimental to the win.

How would you feel if every game you're mafia, you're being bussed d2 for every single game?

[MysticMismagius]

That’s a very extreme example that has absolutely nothing to do with your point.

[Maximus20]

Then report that player for harassment, and carry on. Don't see a need to include this as gamethrowing. Bussing is a valid strategy. It's frustrating when it happens, sure. But to suggest that it be gamethrowing? I don't agree. If people are targeting you, maybe find a group of people to exclusively play with that you know you'll get an enjoyable time with. Other than that, you can't really control what other people do.

I have already agreed above that it should in fact be turned into harassment if it's even reportable, rather than gamethrowing. Also, I cannot find a group of people to play with since I only play ranked.

One last point, I cannot control what people do, but I thought that's why rules are set for people to follow, hence the reason I'm suggesting it to be considered harassment, which is something that can be reported....

[Maximus20]

That’s a very extreme example that has absolutely nothing to do with your point.

Really? It is possible that you could get the same person 5 games in a row, that person keeps bussing you every time d2 and says "I did it because it will help mafia" it would seem harassing to you but it wouldn't be reportable, which would also make you unable to enjoy the game. Extreme or not, it's a question and something that can actually happen in-game and I'm asking the question for an answer based on how you would feel towards such treatment.

[UzayAltay]

First , I am assuming The thing discussed here is "hardbussing " ( Because it make no sense or little sense at distancing , cross-bus or short-bus ) . If it include All busses , just no .
Second , IDK How would it change things even at there ( not entering harresment topic , If somebody is bussing You Because cosmetics/names/etc Than it is Obviously harrasment ) , Like saying somebody " I Will bus You tomorrow " , How would it help Mafia ? You know What Will happen ? It Will turn some sort of cross-bus , with probably The one that write late Will be lynched Unless you are extremetly lucky with actions , or town is too bad .
And it wont Actually turn crossbus Because this isnt crossbus but whatever

[Flavorable]

I don't agree that it should be reportable in any way, shape or form, to be honest.

I have played too many games with fellow faction members that thought they weren't being overly obvious when they were and where they could actually lose us the game if kept alive. And when it comes to themselves, people always assume they're not being harmful to their team, even though they are.

In the end, it's about having the intent to win the game. Sometimes you bus someone, sometimes you get bussed. If it's for the benefit of the win, I don't see an issue with it.
It's not any less fair than being stuck in a game where you have to lose because someone is extremely harmful to your faction, just because you have to be careful people might report you. And there are a lot of situations where people are a genuine threat to the win of the game, or where you see an easy opportunity to "confirm" yourself as town when you're not by sacrificing a teammember.
Otherwise it'd be like a Bodyguard that's refusing to protect anyone because they might die.
It's about doing what's best for the team and not always doing what's best for a person who doesn't want to die. Heck, bussing unwilling teammates is sometimes even detrimental to the win.

How would you feel if every game you're mafia, you're being bussed d2 for every single game?

If I'd get bussed every single game I was mafia, honestly, I'd personally start wondering why people keep bussing me and if maybe I'm doing something horribly wrong.

[Brilliand]

First , I am assuming The thing discussed here is "hardbussing " ( Because it make no sense or little sense at distancing , cross-bus or short-bus ) . If it include All busses , just no .

What are distancing, cross-bus and short-bus?