Transporter can't trans themselves

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Transporter can't trans themselves

Postby Yemac » Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:30 am

Honestly, this would fix so much with the problem of transporters. I know it's harder to fake-claim, but it's so hard as evils to kill a transporter if they're smart. Transporter is basically an invincible TP. They have an infinite amount of self-heals if they just keep transporting themselves with a mafia.

Maybe make it so transporter cannot transport themselves, or cannot swap the same targets twice in a row.
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Re: Transporter can't trans themselves

Postby JacksonVirgo » Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:43 am

I see where you are coming from but I think this isn't the greatest change to the role, the main problem evils have with this role is that it is confirmable as hell. Even in Coven, if two people claim Transported, insta confirmed (unless two hypnos lol). Instead, transports should be silent to make it MUCH easier to fake claim and thus town might lynch one of their greatest assets.
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Re: Transporter can't trans themselves

Postby Yemac » Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:56 am

That would be better, much, much better. But I would still like to see trans not being able to transport themselves.
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Re: Transporter can't trans themselves

Postby JacksonVirgo » Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:06 am

Instead of limiting Transporters role, Mafia should count this role as a priority and get it killed early before they can effectively use the Mafia as a meat shield. The silent transports would help with mislynching them.

So I disagree with removing Transporters self transport. But regarding the sub-forum, maybe this should be in Role Ideas.
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Re: Transporter can't trans themselves

Postby kyuss420 » Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:29 am

Yemac wrote:Honestly, this would fix so much with the problem of transporters. I know it's harder to fake-claim, but it's so hard as evils to kill a transporter if they're smart. Transporter is basically an invincible TP. They have an infinite amount of self-heals if they just keep transporting themselves with a mafia.

Maybe make it so transporter cannot transport themselves, or cannot swap the same targets twice in a row.


transporter transes a vet = dead trans
transporter transes WW = dead trans
transporter transes dusa = dead trans
transporter transes Pest = dead trans

transporter transes themself with mafia = dead TP
transporter transes TP with mafia = dead trans
So if trans knows a mafia, trans has 2 options, save their own ass, or save an important town roles ass... up to mafia to decide what hes going to do and target accordingly.

Also if trans uses an obvious evil as a shield, he runs the risk of being shot by a vigi
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Re: Transporter can't trans themselves

Postby JacksonVirgo » Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:03 am

Practically if Transporter can't transport themselves. They can instead transport a TP into the Mafia and get the TP to protect the Transporter. Same concept, saving two Towns instead of just one.
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Re: Transporter can't trans themselves

Postby Google » Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:16 am

trans is more of a town protective tbh
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Re: Transporter can't trans themselves

Postby JacksonVirgo » Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:35 am

Google wrote:trans is more of a town protective tbh


It pretty much is, yeah
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Re: Transporter can't trans themselves

Postby UzayAltay » Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:17 am

Slinet trans solve Nothing .
You just need an Escort and a spy , and You are confirmed as trans again .
Unless You would Suggest make roleblocked message silent , too . Or rework spy .
I think remove self-trans is The correct solution , Maybe with addition half-feedback ( make it much More claimable , especially at Coven ) , or make Trans unprotectable by any means ( TP /JailorJK can still target trans , but trans wont gain any defense ) . Maybe even We can add that trans cant trans Same Player twice in A row . But removing modification fully make it too swingy : Either instaconfirmed , or mislynch , very similiar to medium , even worse Than that .
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Re: Transporter can't trans themselves

Postby JacksonVirgo » Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:09 am

UzayAltay wrote:Slinet trans solve Nothing .
You just need an Escort and a spy , and You are confirmed as trans again .
Unless You would Suggest make roleblocked message silent , too . Or rework spy .
I think remove self-trans is The correct solution , Maybe with addition half-feedback ( make it much More claimable , especially at Coven ) , or make Trans unprotectable by any means ( TP /JailorJK can still target trans , but trans wont gain any defense ) . Maybe even We can add that trans cant trans Same Player twice in A row . But removing modification fully make it too swingy : Either instaconfirmed , or mislynch , very similiar to medium , even worse Than that .


Self confirming roles are terrible. Transporter is one of the worst, how do you plan on stopping that? By having him be forced to Transport 2 other people so the Hypnotist cannot fake claim it anymore? Making it even MORE insta-confirmable. Self confirming roles are terrible, but most roles can be confirmed using a combination of other roles too like Escort + Spy. Having Transporters less confirmed will help WAY more than having them killable at night, even though you could use a TP and do the exact same protection but save two town instead of just yourself.
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Re: Transporter can't trans themselves

Postby kyuss420 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:47 am

UzayAltay wrote:Slinet trans solve Nothing .
You just need an Escort and a spy , and You are confirmed as trans again .
Unless You would Suggest make roleblocked message silent , too . Or rework spy .
I think remove self-trans is The correct solution , Maybe with addition half-feedback ( make it much More claimable , especially at Coven ) , or make Trans unprotectable by any means ( TP /JailorJK can still target trans , but trans wont gain any defense ) . Maybe even We can add that trans cant trans Same Player twice in A row . But removing modification fully make it too swingy : Either instaconfirmed , or mislynch , very similiar to medium , even worse Than that .


in coven, a trans that only transports themself, 9 out of 10 times, gets lynched as a hypnotist. Being unable to transport yourself actually makes it less claimable as you would be confirmed day 2 as soon as 2 people claim to be transed.

This whole thread is dumb... ''Nerf Trans because smart players can utilise the role and evils have to outwit them'' (a smart player is going to put pressure on the evils, no matter what role they get) then the other flip of the switch... a dumb rando transporter causes mislynches, causes vigis to shoot important townies, causes TIs to second guess their results.

So what is the benchmark, of how hard an evil faction should have to try, to get a win? I mean, how many roles should they have to outwit before they win? Seems to me the real problem, is certain combinations of town roles spawning in the same game. No one has a problem with a transporter in All/Any with 3 other town roles in game...
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Re: Transporter can't trans themselves

Postby Venusupreme » Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:35 pm

I agree with you SO MUCH. I've always hated dealing with Transporters. They're like a TP and a TK and a TS all rolled up into one. And they're self confirming. The only reason I believe more people don't complain about it is because it's currently overshadowed by the Retribrokenist in terms of overpowered-ness.

An alright compromise may be to limit self-transportations to one per game, like TP roles. As it stands, though, Transporter is the most ignored issue with the game right now.

Edit: for clarity, I'm speaking from my experience on Ranked mode. I can't say whether or not it's balanced on Coven. That said, it's always possible for them to just make two different versions of the role for each mode as they did with Witch.
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Re: Transporter can't trans themselves

Postby SwampRabbit » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:58 am

kyuss420 wrote: in coven, a trans that only transports themself, 9 out of 10 times, gets lynched as a hypnotist. Being unable to transport yourself actually makes it less claimable as you would be confirmed day 2 as soon as 2 people claim to be transed.

This whole thread is dumb... ''Nerf Trans because smart players can utilise the role and evils have to outwit them'' (a smart player is going to put pressure on the evils, no matter what role they get) then the other flip of the switch... a dumb rando transporter causes mislynches, causes vigis to shoot important townies, causes TIs to second guess their results.

So what is the benchmark, of how hard an evil faction should have to try, to get a win? I mean, how many roles should they have to outwit before they win? Seems to me the real problem, is certain combinations of town roles spawning in the same game. No one has a problem with a transporter in All/Any with 3 other town roles in game...


Quick tip to the coven people who did not figure this out--have one of your own mafia LIE and claim to be transported each night when hypno is acting as trans. duh

I agree completely that there is nothing about transporter that needs to be changed or nerfed. A good trans can win the game for town. A bad one loses it more quickly. I don't even know how many games I have played--more than 10,000--and I see bad trans cause towns to lose more than I see good ones who help towns win. I don't even know the number of times I see transporters moving themselves with another confirmed town role (such as jailor or revealed mayor) near end of game rather than moving a confirmed town with a suspected evil. I have no idea what thought process (none apparently) that any transporter uses when he moves only himself or moves himself with a confirmed town.

For the people who think it needs to be restricted because they can't win against it when evil, all I can say is to learn math. Attack low profile targets that will not be protected by tp or the transporter, and when evils gain majority vote (and in ranked games, that is d3 unless evils have died), vote the transporter out. So many people playing evil roles forget that when you have more evil people alive than town people alive, you just vote out pesky roles like transporter and jailor. When evils have the majority stop pretending to be town and vote like the evil you are and lynch the trans, etc.
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Re: Transporter can't trans themselves

Postby Venusupreme » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:21 am

SwampRabbit wrote:
kyuss420 wrote: in coven, a trans that only transports themself, 9 out of 10 times, gets lynched as a hypnotist. Being unable to transport yourself actually makes it less claimable as you would be confirmed day 2 as soon as 2 people claim to be transed.

This whole thread is dumb... ''Nerf Trans because smart players can utilise the role and evils have to outwit them'' (a smart player is going to put pressure on the evils, no matter what role they get) then the other flip of the switch... a dumb rando transporter causes mislynches, causes vigis to shoot important townies, causes TIs to second guess their results.

So what is the benchmark, of how hard an evil faction should have to try, to get a win? I mean, how many roles should they have to outwit before they win? Seems to me the real problem, is certain combinations of town roles spawning in the same game. No one has a problem with a transporter in All/Any with 3 other town roles in game...


Quick tip to the coven people who did not figure this out--have one of your own mafia LIE and claim to be transported each night when hypno is acting as trans. duh

I agree completely that there is nothing about transporter that needs to be changed or nerfed. A good trans can win the game for town. A bad one loses it more quickly. I don't even know how many games I have played--more than 10,000--and I see bad trans cause towns to lose more than I see good ones who help towns win. I don't even know the number of times I see transporters moving themselves with another confirmed town role (such as jailor or revealed mayor) near end of game rather than moving a confirmed town with a suspected evil. I have no idea what thought process (none apparently) that any transporter uses when he moves only himself or moves himself with a confirmed town.

For the people who think it needs to be restricted because they can't win against it when evil, all I can say is to learn math. Attack low profile targets that will not be protected by tp or the transporter, and when evils gain majority vote (and in ranked games, that is d3 unless evils have died), vote the transporter out. So many people playing evil roles forget that when you have more evil people alive than town people alive, you just vote out pesky roles like transporter and jailor. When evils have the majority stop pretending to be town and vote like the evil you are and lynch the trans, etc.


I've played over 3,000 games myself, and I see a competent Transporter win games for the Town that they deserved to lose far more than I see the opposite. What mode do you usually play? What you described doesn't sound like the Ranked mode that I know...
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Re: Transporter can't trans themselves

Postby SwampRabbit » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:37 am

What mode do I play? I played ranked classic almost exclusively. You can find me on the leader board. lol I have no idea what level of ranked you are playing, but I am sure that most ranked players will agree that bad transporters lose games for towns far more than competent ones win it.
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Re: Transporter can't trans themselves

Postby Venusupreme » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:43 am

I'm in the 2080 range currently, though most of my games have higher ELO players. All trans has to do is not fuck up for a little while, and then they're a god tier role once they reach the lategame.
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Re: Transporter can't trans themselves

Postby Brilliand » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:52 pm

Transporter has a wider variance than most roles - a good Transporter benefits the town far more than a good Doctor, while a bad Transporter harms the town far more than a bad Doctor.

I'm a little surprised to hear that "bad" transporters still show up in high-level ranked, but I guess that makes sense; good transporters aren't exactly rare outside of Ranked either.

Still, I think changing the Transporter to be less powerful in skilled hands and more powerful (that is less detrimental) in unskilled hands would be a good thing. It has to go both ways, though - not a straight nerf or a straight buff.
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Re: Transporter can't trans themselves

Postby SwampRabbit » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:49 pm

Brilliand wrote:Transporter has a wider variance than most roles - a good Transporter benefits the town far more than a good Doctor, while a bad Transporter harms the town far more than a bad Doctor.

I'm a little surprised to hear that "bad" transporters still show up in high-level ranked, but I guess that makes sense; good transporters aren't exactly rare outside of Ranked either.

Still, I think changing the Transporter to be less powerful in skilled hands and more powerful (that is less detrimental) in unskilled hands would be a good thing. It has to go both ways, though - not a straight nerf or a straight buff.



OMG, yes. Some of them are so bad. One game a couple of days ago. We had 3 town and 2 mafia alive. The town roles were revealed mayor, retri (me) and a transporter. Neither mafia was gf, so neither one was immune, and if it came down to 1 v 1 with transporter, the trans would autowin.

So the transporter's idea was to transport the mayor with the retri, and of course mafia killed the mayor. Then, rather than go 50/50 and try to out-think the mafia, the trans left the game.

Keep in mind that if all players were near my rank or even if they were all 3000+, I doubt we would have a trans that bad. Trans might not have been able to outwit the mafia in a 50/50 situation, but it would not be from transporting a mayor with a retri. I do not know the actual ranking of the transporter in that game because I do not discord stalk people, and I am not going to name him here, but I have seen him in a handful of games so he is master level--probably low 2000s is my best guess.

Games with all 15 players 3000+ elo are a dream. They are rare right now because of season fatigue. But when we coordinate our game times and it happens, the game becomes about which faction plays best rather than which one has the fewest idiots.
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Re: Transporter can't trans themselves

Postby kyuss420 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:34 am

Venusupreme wrote:
SwampRabbit wrote:
kyuss420 wrote: in coven, a trans that only transports themself, 9 out of 10 times, gets lynched as a hypnotist. Being unable to transport yourself actually makes it less claimable as you would be confirmed day 2 as soon as 2 people claim to be transed.

This whole thread is dumb... ''Nerf Trans because smart players can utilise the role and evils have to outwit them'' (a smart player is going to put pressure on the evils, no matter what role they get) then the other flip of the switch... a dumb rando transporter causes mislynches, causes vigis to shoot important townies, causes TIs to second guess their results.

So what is the benchmark, of how hard an evil faction should have to try, to get a win? I mean, how many roles should they have to outwit before they win? Seems to me the real problem, is certain combinations of town roles spawning in the same game. No one has a problem with a transporter in All/Any with 3 other town roles in game...


Quick tip to the coven people who did not figure this out--have one of your own mafia LIE and claim to be transported each night when hypno is acting as trans. duh

I agree completely that there is nothing about transporter that needs to be changed or nerfed. A good trans can win the game for town. A bad one loses it more quickly. I don't even know how many games I have played--more than 10,000--and I see bad trans cause towns to lose more than I see good ones who help towns win. I don't even know the number of times I see transporters moving themselves with another confirmed town role (such as jailor or revealed mayor) near end of game rather than moving a confirmed town with a suspected evil. I have no idea what thought process (none apparently) that any transporter uses when he moves only himself or moves himself with a confirmed town.

For the people who think it needs to be restricted because they can't win against it when evil, all I can say is to learn math. Attack low profile targets that will not be protected by tp or the transporter, and when evils gain majority vote (and in ranked games, that is d3 unless evils have died), vote the transporter out. So many people playing evil roles forget that when you have more evil people alive than town people alive, you just vote out pesky roles like transporter and jailor. When evils have the majority stop pretending to be town and vote like the evil you are and lynch the trans, etc.


I've played over 3,000 games myself, and I see a competent Transporter win games for the Town that they deserved to lose far more than I see the opposite. What mode do you usually play? What you described doesn't sound like the Ranked mode that I know...


Thing is, that competent trans would likely be competant at any given town role, if they were vigi, they would have shot the mafia, instead of transporting them, if they were TI, they would have outed the maf instead of transporting them. If the trans knows how to play as maf, then youre going to run into problems because they will counter the plays that they know you are going to make, so yea they should be a problem for maf in high level ranked... but they should be a problem for maf no matter what role they get at that level.

Also claiming that you were transed, as mafia, in a hypno game, isnt the best idea becuase if the hypno dies early you get lynched early, but yea, Ive seen many more bad transporters wreck town, than good ones winning it
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Re: Transporter can't trans themselves

Postby SwampRabbit » Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:45 am

kyuss420 wrote:Thing is, that competent trans would likely be competant at any given town role, if they were vigi, they would have shot the mafia, instead of transporting them, if they were TI, they would have outed the maf instead of transporting them. If the trans knows how to play as maf, then youre going to run into problems because they will counter the plays that they know you are going to make, so yea they should be a problem for maf in high level ranked... but they should be a problem for maf no matter what role they get at that level.

Also claiming that you were transed, as mafia, in a hypno game, isnt the best idea becuase if the hypno dies early you get lynched early, but yea, Ive seen many more bad transporters wreck town, than good ones winning it


I agree. Competent transporters are competent at all town roles because it requires you to be able to scumread the likely evils, and most of that info is revealed on d2.

As to the coven, I do not play coven mode often anymore because the coven games bore me with everyone standing around waiting to be killed by an evil. (So the mode does not bore me, the players in it do.) Nonetheless, fake transporters work really well in ranked classic when the mafia are all good players. I have seen so many towns sheeped by a mafioso who claims to be transporter and keeps moving various mafia members with other evils and occasionally with people who died, so if it works this well in ranked classic when no one is receiving a message that they were transported, it will work easier in coven where one person actually thinks they were transported. But, this strategy, like any other falls apart when one evil goes down. so the trick is to have all mafia actively keeping each other from being lynched until such time as evils have majority vote (once again d3 in ranked games in almost all circumstances, so basically, evils have to not get lynched on d2 and they are golden).

There is actually a funny story from about 6 months ago when there was no transporter in the game, (a queue with people ranked around 2700 at the time) and it was a jailor and me calling out for transporter to move the mayor, etc. because there was no bg for mayor. No one in the game actually ever said they were transported, and daily I posted my investigative results. At the end of the game, there was a confirmed vet and me, as investigator, alive against a random mafia and a GF. I was told by the mafia to stop trying to fake investigator because they knew I was really the transporter. So I played along and told them to attack me and kill the RM or attack the vet and kill the gf. They chose to wait 4 nights doing nothing until the draw warning came up. They then attacked the vet. For whatever reason, they did not lynch me the next day, nor did they attack me the next night. When they were lynching me the following day, I was mocking them for being so dumb, and the RM was like I know right, even if I had died last night the GF autowins against you. I again assured them that they were idiots and that not only me but the entire graveyard was laughing at them. They very boastfully reminded me that they were winning the game, and all I said was that yes, but they should have won it 5 days ago...and they lynched me to see me revealed as investigator. :) Other than wasting so much of everyone's time, it was hilarious.

But, back to the topic of whether a real transporter should be able to transport himself--of course they should. The trans role is perfect as designed. A transporter who cannot move himself is a dead transporter, making the role completely useless. The trans has no other purpose than to protect town roles by moving them with evil roles. If the trans is not able to do that by not being able to protect himself once he is revealed as transporter, then the role loses its entire purpose.
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Re: Transporter can't trans themselves

Postby Voriki » Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:36 am

Yemac wrote:Maybe make it so transporter cannot transport themselves, or cannot swap the same targets twice in a row.


I would enjoy the strategic decision that you can't recreate the same transport pairs.(ofcourse it needs to programmable, and properly communicated to the transported when making every decision, that it is unique).
Once you have transported Player 4 and 7, you cannot ever transport them again with each other, but you can do 4 with 6, and 6 with 7(on a different night ofcourse).
And then 6 can't be transported along 4 and 7 anymore either.

Kinda like the thing that often happens in Freaky Friday type situations. I know they did it once in a Stargate episode.
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Re: Transporter can't trans themselves

Postby JacksonVirgo » Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:53 am

Voriki wrote:
Yemac wrote:Maybe make it so transporter cannot transport themselves, or cannot swap the same targets twice in a row.


I would enjoy the strategic decision that you can't recreate the same transport pairs.(ofcourse it needs to programmable, and properly communicated to the transported when making every decision, that it is unique).
Once you have transported Player 4 and 7, you cannot ever transport them again with each other, but you can do 4 with 6, and 6 with 7(on a different night ofcourse).
And then 6 can't be transported along 4 and 7 anymore either.

Kinda like the thing that often happens in Freaky Friday type situations. I know they did it once in a Stargate episode.


Restricting what a role can do, and when they can do them is BAD. Noooope.

Honestly, in my opinion, giving mafia the ability to kill another mafia would be better than that. Meaning the Mafia can risk whether to try kill the Mafioso or hit the Transporter directly and Transporter has to be ballsy and guess which the Mafia will do.

The idea is terrible, though is better than restricting what Trans can do.

Maybe even limiting how many transports they can do to 3. Anything rather than restricting what they can do, it's what I absolutely despise as Vampires/Werewolf.
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Re: Transporter can't trans themselves

Postby lshz » Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:57 am

Yemac wrote:Honestly, this would fix so much with the problem of transporters. I know it's harder to fake-claim, but it's so hard as evils to kill a transporter if they're smart. Transporter is basically an invincible TP. They have an infinite amount of self-heals if they just keep transporting themselves with a mafia.

Maybe make it so transporter cannot transport themselves, or cannot swap the same targets twice in a row.

They're called the transporter, and if they can't trans themselves what should they be called? I disagree with this suggestion.
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Re: Transporter can't trans themselves

Postby EgyptFalcon » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:24 pm

kyuss420 wrote:
Yemac wrote:Honestly, this would fix so much with the problem of transporters. I know it's harder to fake-claim, but it's so hard as evils to kill a transporter if they're smart. Transporter is basically an invincible TP. They have an infinite amount of self-heals if they just keep transporting themselves with a mafia.

Maybe make it so transporter cannot transport themselves, or cannot swap the same targets twice in a row.


transporter transes a vet = dead trans
transporter transes WW = dead trans
transporter transes dusa = dead trans
transporter transes Pest = dead trans

transporter transes themself with mafia = dead TP
transporter transes TP with mafia = dead trans
So if trans knows a mafia, trans has 2 options, save their own ass, or save an important town roles ass... up to mafia to decide what hes going to do and target accordingly.

Also if trans uses an obvious evil as a shield, he runs the risk of being shot by a vigi


This is a fallacy that I have seen multiple times that I want to address. Not even gonna address the first half because I shouldn't need to. The argument in this thread is that being able to transport oneself is limitless self protection with known evils. You argue against this by saying "transporter transes themself with mafia = dead TP". Well no shit! If BG self vests they can't save the doc either. The point being made is that transporter can do that indefinitely and there's a reason BG doesn't have infinite self vests. Identical argument with transing TP. And at the end you say it's a 50/50. But here's the thing -- it's better than both doc and BG because if mafia attacks the wrong person then mafia dies and transporter survives! Also, any half-brained vigi will say who they're shooting or whisper it to trans in a trans game (which is confirmed by d2).
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Re: Transporter can't trans themselves

Postby Flake » Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:31 pm

just get good lol
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