KluftObert--King of Salem

[SwampRabbit]

We should have some sort of award for the best TOS player, and they should get to design a unique skin, and we should call it the KluftObert.

There is nothing currently that rewards the best player in the game, and there ought to be. Is it really fair that the best player get the same lobby icon that everyone who played ranked this season will get. (Everyone will get it because all decent players reached master within 2 weeks of starting, and with this year-long season, most of the bad players have reached masters as well.)

Obviously, the first winner of this new title of King (Queen) of Salem and prize of unique skin should be KluftObert, aka Curry.

Curry is by far the most skilled TOS player in ranked (and we have no way to measure chaos so ranked is all that counts). Not only is his elo out of range of any other player, he also helps other people learn to play better. He is a mentor to those wanting to improve, and he never rages or gets angry because some stupid idiot throws games by being dumb. There are other nice people on TOS as well, but no one is nicer than Curry is. Also, whether he is town or evil, he always wants to let the most factions possible win, so if he is able to without hurting his faction, he helps NE win as well. Too many times salty towns kill witch or refuse to vote jester because jester made the jailor lose executions.

He is uniquely good at TOS and a genuinely nice guy, so I nominate KluftObert for the honor of officially becoming the first King of Salem. There is no one more deserving. So just send him a message telling him how to create his own KluftObert skin.

[SparkingJay]

I agree with this idea but I also cc best player soo.

[SwampRabbit]

What is your game name again SparkinJay? Your username is slightly familiar, but I can't place you.

First King of Salem can be no one other than KluftObert.

[SparkingJay]

I am too irrelevant to be king. I have yet to become relevant. I will go back to train

[SwampRabbit]

You know I love you, Blitz! But Curry is better than both of us combined.

[SparkingJay]

I mean Big J (Jerme) is always an option. He is the real alpha around these ends.

[MysticMismagius]

There are so many ways you can define a “King” or “Queen” (personally I’m partial to back900, the ancient monarch who first got the 10 Jugg wins achievement legitimately) that crowning a single person would cause ire from everyone who thinks the ruler should be someone else, for a different accomplishment.

[SwampRabbit]

It is impressive that anyone has played Coven long enough to get Juggernaut on the wheel 10 times. However, who decides what is a "legitimate" win? It sounds like your buddy wasn't the first to get 10 juggernaut wins, and unless the game was hacked, the other people beat him to it and are more deserving of coven king title.

I have no issue with coven getting their own king or queen based on some quantifiable measurement. (not one person deciding who "legitimately" earns something.) But, I also know that top ranked players don't play coven because the coven player base is not very skilled. Sure we occasionally get a group and go play coven but are so bored by the lack of skill in the players that we quickly flee from what feels like the bowels of hell. Playing coven is akin to playing ranked practice in so far as skill of player base goes.

I am sure there is a rare exception of actual good players playing predominately coven, but I would bet a year's salary that coven players cannot compete in either classic or coven games with top ranked classic game players. But since my theory cannot be tested, I have no problem letting coven players have their own king or queen.

Coven King or Queen would be like NCAA division II, compared to KluftObert being the King of Salem, (akin to NCAA, Div. I).

[MysticMismagius]

I mean “legitimately” as in, got the Juggernaut role on the role wheel and won a game with it 10 times, as opposed to hacking the achievement on Steam like a lot of people do. And while back900 isn’t my friend, I do know they were the first because I followed them on the leaderboard while hunting Jugg wins.

Ultimately, my point is not to argue about who the “king” should be, but that there are too many candidates who have some sort of reason to be “king”, that deciding on one or a few would lead to such arguments about who is crowned and why.

[SwampRabbit]

Oh, ok. I see what you mean. What kind of losers hack steam achievements?

Anyway, for classic King of Salem is easy to see because we have such a large player base and KluftObert far outranks us all. He is the #1 player and has been for basically the entire year. That is a fact, not an opinion.

Coven barely has any ranked players, so I don't know what would be a good determinant of Coven King/Queen. I am not sure singling out who wins most at a specific role is the best way to decide it.

I still maintain that Classic ranked players are better than coven players, so I would still argue that KluftObert should be named King of all Salem.

[MysticMismagius]

Oh, ok. I see what you mean. What kind of losers hack steam achievements? Well, you kinda answered your own question... losers.

Anyway, for classic King of Salem is easy to see because we have such a large player base and KluftObert far outranks us all. He is the #1 player and has been for basically the entire year. That is a fact, not an opinion. ”XYZ is the best ToS player” is, inherently, an opinion. No matter who you nominate or why.

Coven barely has any ranked players, so I don't know what would be a good determinant of Coven King/Queen. I am not sure singling out who wins most at a specific role is the best way to decide it. Who said to split it up between Classic and Coven? The wins thing was more about achievements, being the first to earn the current rarest achievement, but you could split it up any way you want. All the things you dismiss as not mattering, like game modes besides Ranked, achievements, Coven, someone could say “what if that DOES matter?” and suddenly you have a new candidate for “King”.

I still maintain that Classic ranked players are better than coven players, so I would still argue that KluftObert should be named King of all Salem.

[SwampRabbit]

No, KluftObert is LITERALLY the #1 ranked player. That isn't just my opinion. It is posted on the leader board, and he has held that position for nearly an entire year.

I said to split it between coven and classic because you mentioned coven, and none of the coven players have half the skill of probably the top 100 ranked classic players. But rather than just be rude as fuck and laugh at the idea of you thinking any coven player would be in the running for the top player overall, I suggested a Coven specific King/Queen, kind of like a participation trophy.

But I think it is cute that you think coven players have skills.

[MysticMismagius]

#1 in Ranked, but as I’ve said multiple times, Ranked is not the only criteria. You dismiss the other criteria as not mattering, but there’s a significant chunk of people who don’t play Ranked at all. Those criteria will matter to someone.

That last sentence makes me feel like you didn’t even read the rest of my post at all. I never once said it was about Coven, or that I think Coven players are “better”, or whatever. I said that every perspective you look at the issue of “King of Town of Salem” from gives you a different result, a different monarch. Crowning KluftObert sole “King” because he’s the best at Ranked would be a shitshow, because everyone else who has a claim to the throne for a different reason besides Ranked would be pissed.

[SwampRabbit]

Yes, I do because I have been playing tos since 2014. I have literally played thousands of chaos games in both coven and classic. I have played thousands of ranked games in classic. I have played hundreds of ranked practice in coven and a handful of ranked coven.

So when I say that classic ranked has the best players, I know wtf I am talking about. Coven players (and there are rare exceptions I am sure) are not even close to the skill level of ranked classic top 100-500 players.

So when I am talking about a best tos player--I am talking about the best of the highest skilled group, and that is KluftObert.

[MysticMismagius]

Yes, I do because I have been playing tos since 2014. I have literally played thousands of chaos games in both coven and classic. I have played thousands of ranked games in classic. I have played hundreds of ranked practice in coven and a handful of ranked coven. Okay, what the hell does that have to do with ANYTHING I just said? "I play a lot so I decide what does and doesn't matter"? Please.

So when I say that classic ranked has the best players, I know wtf I am talking about. Coven players (and there are rare exceptions I am sure) are not even close to the skill level of ranked classic top 100-500 players. Again, I never said this was about Coven. You keep imagining this like it'll be two groups of people trying to coronate their champion, one for Coven and one for Classic, but in reality it will be far more than that. There are many different ways one can look for "the best".

So when I am talking about a best tos player--I am talking about the best of the highest skilled group, and that is KluftObert.

You clearly aren't reading my posts at all and are just trying to argue with a strawman, so I'll stop here. Have a nice day.

[SwampRabbit]

I get where you're coming from with this idea, but personally I don't really like it. It pretty much just singles out one person as being "better" than everyone else. Which, sure, if they are statistically the 'best', then I get it. But in a gaming community like this...that likely will just lead to...not pleasant things. Plus, there are always going to be people who hold that top person in contempt, which would just lead to really ugly things happening and more toxicity.

For me, I don't like this dude, KluftObert. I have a completely different experience with the dude than you do, I'm afraid. In the games that I've played with him, I found him to be an arrogant, entitled, cocky jerk, and a borderline cheating/throwing gamer. He talks down to people, somehow knows information that he really shouldn't know (and you cannot say he's "just that good", so don't even try), and half the time just trolls like he's "above it all". So, for someone like myself, I don't like this person at all. If he has the most elo and whatever, then good for him. Whatever. But I don't think calling ANYONE the "best" TOS player makes sense. Nobody IS "the best". Because the game still borders on luck. Will somebody disconnect? Will somebody be AFK? Will a group of people end up cheating and not playing fairly? Will people actively throw to make sure certain people don't win? Nobody is "the best". And that's the way it should be.

If you don't like the idea, that is fair. But, don't you dare accuse KluftObert of cheating. That is total bullshit. The information he seems to know that you don't understand, is the same information all good players can tell--by reading the players--how they talk, what they say, what they don't say, how they vote. It is the same reason that so many of top players fake role claim even when they are town. It simply does not matter what is claimed. It is about reading the players. And that is what separates decent players from the great ones.