Jester 1 night of defence?

[Yemac]

Should jester have one night of defence, like witch? I get that this could be seen as overpowered, but this way mafia can't accidentally hit them and lose, and spies get nerfed a bit since it isn't immediately obvious who the NK is. I see so many people hating jester because it's so easy to die. Be too townie and mafia kills you, be too mafia and vigilante shoots you or jailor executes you. If jester would have one night of defence, it will increase the chances of winning for the evils.

Also, I don't get why witch has defence but jester doesn't. Witch can eat least defend themselves with doc, or control evils onto somebody else.


/supports - 2
/nosupports - 0

[FrenchyTheSphee]

I agree this would be great. +1

[Duckferno]

Well, Mafia doesn't accidentally kill a Jester. It's not like their always teaming up with him. Besides it's a bad idea, jester wins easily.

/ no support

[CaleHusky]

Would make it easier for them to win that way too, yes. Vigilante can be a pain in the butt towards Jesters too. I support this suggestion.

[kyuss420]

That would make jester waaaaay too easy.

Jester gets hit.... everyone assumes theyre NK and lynches.

Takes any strategy out of getting yourself lynched, just wait until youre attacked and fake being NK.

Point being you should be trying to get lynched before you are attacked......maybe dont make a claim that will make you a target? Any role can be attacked early and die, thats really no reason a role should have defence

[swagmm23]

Not too bad of an idea. Jester is already considered pretty UP.

[Villagerlover]

This has been a suggestion since the beginning of time, and it should never be implemented.

The jester is one of the EASIEST roles to win with in the entire game! As kyuss already said, giving it an immunity even if it's only a one-time thing will make it even easier to win as! Everyone will want to lynch you and you don't even have to lift a finger.
It's ridiculously stupid, and even limits players to how they can kill a jester.


Look if I want to kill a jester because it's being annoying, I should be allowed to do so without having to waste a night.
Jesters need to earn their victory just as much as anyone else. It needs some sort of weakness to make up for its ability to win by being killed during the day. It is a trait no one else in the entire game has because it's suuuuuper easy...


Overall, the jester should never have any kind of natural immunity. It is a role that has no sides (unlike a witch), and has one of the easiest ways to win a game out of all the other roles. Giving it any sort of defense is just ludicrous.

I have a feeling that the people who support this only support it because of the one time they were jester and died night 1, or were killed by at night.
Anyone can die night 1, including roles that could automatically change, and do they get defense too? No. And neither should the jester.

/No support

[swagmm23]

This has been a suggestion since the beginning of time, and it should never be implemented.

The jester is one of the EASIEST roles to win with in the entire game! As kyuss already said, giving it an immunity even if it's only a one-time thing will make it even easier to win as! Everyone will want to lynch you and you don't even have to lift a finger.
It's ridiculously stupid, and even limits players to how they can kill a jester.


Look if I want to kill a jester because it's being annoying, I should be allowed to do so without having to waste a night.
Jesters need to earn their victory just as much as anyone else. It needs some sort of weakness to make up for its ability to win by being killed during the day. It is a trait no one else in the entire game has because it's suuuuuper easy...


Overall, the jester should never have any kind of natural immunity. It is a role that has no sides (unlike a witch), and has one of the easiest ways to win a game out of all the other roles. Giving it any sort of defense is just ludicrous.

I have a feeling that the people who support this only support it because of the one time they were jester and died night 1, or were killed by at night.
Anyone can die night 1, including roles that could automatically change, and do they get defense too? No. And neither should the jester.

/No support

I still can't see many jesters getting lynched, but that could be because 99.99% of my gameplay is from All/Any or the Jesters are just bad.
And i assumed that this isn't the first time this was suggested.

[Villagerlover]

This has been a suggestion since the beginning of time, and it should never be implemented.

The jester is one of the EASIEST roles to win with in the entire game! As kyuss already said, giving it an immunity even if it's only a one-time thing will make it even easier to win as! Everyone will want to lynch you and you don't even have to lift a finger.
It's ridiculously stupid, and even limits players to how they can kill a jester.


Look if I want to kill a jester because it's being annoying, I should be allowed to do so without having to waste a night.
Jesters need to earn their victory just as much as anyone else. It needs some sort of weakness to make up for its ability to win by being killed during the day. It is a trait no one else in the entire game has because it's suuuuuper easy...


Overall, the jester should never have any kind of natural immunity. It is a role that has no sides (unlike a witch), and has one of the easiest ways to win a game out of all the other roles. Giving it any sort of defense is just ludicrous.

I have a feeling that the people who support this only support it because of the one time they were jester and died night 1, or were killed by at night.
Anyone can die night 1, including roles that could automatically change, and do they get defense too? No. And neither should the jester.

/No support

I still can't see many jesters getting lynched, but that could be because 99.99% of my gameplay is from All/Any or the Jesters are just bad.
And i assumed that this isn't the first time this was suggested.

A smart jester can easily be lynched, and will not try to attract suspicious attention.
All Any jesters don't give a damn about anything lol

And yeah just like I said in the post you quoted, it's been suggested hundreds of times. The same can be said for Amnesiacs as well.

[Yemac]

They won't get lynched instantly if mafia hits someone x2, because everyone would know jester has defence. So if spy sees a 2x visit, it can be witch,exe,arso,ww,sk OR jester. This means that any NE/NK won't get instantly lynched because 'mafia hits immune', and jester can play it off. Or they get executed. It's an extra chance.

Also, jester is not *that* easy. Can you please tell me which rank you are? I am currently in masters and I rarely see jesters winning. It's mostly because people want them out of the way if they do, but most of the times I see jesters get killed by mafia or hit by the NK. If you claim and there is no room, jailor will execute you or important roles will inno because 'it might be jester'. if you don't claim, mafia hits you because you're silent for a reason and are an important role. And mafia is sure as shit not gonna guilty you if you whisper them.

It is also NOT just a buff to jester. It's a buff to evils in general. Without jester, mafia often loses. Not always, but often. If it's not to town, it's because town decides to give lazy NK the win. Also, swagmm33, why not remove immunity from executioner then? They at least actively vote against the town, and should then also be one of the easiest roles to win as. Why give them immunity but not the jester, who's only winrate is hanging (exe has two, technically, since they can switch roles)

[Villagerlover]

They won't get lynched instantly if mafia hits someone x2, because everyone would know jester has defence. So if spy sees a 2x visit, it can be witch,exe,arso,ww,sk OR jester. This means that any NE/NK won't get instantly lynched because 'mafia hits immune', and jester can play it off. Or they get executed. It's an extra chance.

Also, jester is not *that* easy. Can you please tell me which rank you are? I am currently in masters and I rarely see jesters winning. It's mostly because people want them out of the way if they do, but most of the times I see jesters get killed by mafia or hit by the NK. If you claim and there is no room, jailor will execute you or important roles will inno because 'it might be jester'. if you don't claim, mafia hits you because you're silent for a reason and are an important role. And mafia is sure as shit not gonna guilty you if you whisper them.

It is also NOT just a buff to jester. It's a buff to evils in general. Without jester, mafia often loses. Not always, but often. If it's not to town, it's because town decides to give lazy NK the win. Also, swagmm33, why not remove immunity from executioner then? They at least actively vote against the town, and should then also be one of the easiest roles to win as. Why give them immunity but not the jester, who's only winrate is hanging (exe has two, technically, since they can switch roles)

The jester has the easiest goal in the entire game. While literally every other role is trying to not get lynched, you are. How is that not the easiest way to win in this game? People in this game are lynched for the most ludicrous, absurd reasons with little to no concrete proof most of the time, and the chances of you getting lynched as a jester are really high in a lynch-thirsty environment like Ranked. Being lynched should be easy.
Sure, I agree it's not that easy, but most of the time it's easy to make a..."smart mistake" that catches town's eye, and gets suspicion on yourself.
And in swagmm33's defense, the executioner is like the 2nd easiest to win. Getting someone else lynched is a little bit more difficult, but it can admittedly easily be sorted out. And if all else fails, then you're given the jester role itself which technically is an action that makes you lose immunity. It wouldn't exactly make sense for a newly converted jester to still have immunity...


Also, what incentive is there as a jester to remain silent? If you are a jester, you can literally claim anything to interfere with claim space and confuse townies. If you are a jester and you remain silent, sure you might not attract town's attention so much in the beginning (unless there's the few who try to seek you out), but that only increases your chance of getting killed at night by an evil role. It is probably not the best route to take when you're a jester in a ranked setting, but I can't say for certain since a lot of things could work in your favor.

I also disagree with you saying all evils benefit from this. The example you provided works as a new excuse, sure. But that isn't exactly going to stop the town from taking action against you...the idea of the jester having a 1-night immunity to attacks is only going to benefit the jester way more than anyone else. Why? Cause the Jester doesn't have to work with the mafia to win. In fact, I'd argue that the mafia sometimes want the jester dead when the jester begins targetting them. Unlike a Witch or Executioner (who need the mafia to vote with them to win for x and y reason), the jester is an individual that doesn't involve anyone else. It can go against anyone, and that includes the evils. What if the mafia want the jester dead? They will have to waste a day to kill the jester that is going against them. And the fact that it's a jester that could withstand attacks from anyone is absurd in general when you have the easiest goal in the game.
At least if a Witch goes against the mafia, it's usually in the favor of going for the NK's win. But a jester? It only cares for itself. How does that help the evils at all?? It doesn't.


The jester is a selfish role that only cares about itself, and giving a temporary immunity will mainly increase its chances of winning, which only makes the easiest role in the game, easier to win with...

[Chedman]

I do not agree. I know, I know, sometimes you just die N1 and there's literally nothing you can do to pull a win, because you've already lost on the first night of the game. But... there are ways to try to stay alive as Jester, such as:
Saying TP/LO on me
Fake vetbaiting to make yourself look like a veteran who wants to alert N1
Asking to be jailed
Claiming survivor D1
And others

You primarily win with Jester with skill, along with the other Neutrals. You have to carry yourself, there is not a team where you can fall back on. Jester shouldn't be any easier. And even if you die N1 and if you're cleaned, AND there is a medium, you can fake-claim to the medium, and enjoy watching town crumble apart.

[kyuss420]

They won't get lynched instantly if mafia hits someone x2, because everyone would know jester has defence. So if spy sees a 2x visit, it can be witch,exe,arso,ww,sk OR jester. This means that any NE/NK won't get instantly lynched because 'mafia hits immune', and jester can play it off. Or they get executed. It's an extra chance.

Also, jester is not *that* easy. Can you please tell me which rank you are? I am currently in masters and I rarely see jesters winning. It's mostly because people want them out of the way if they do, but most of the times I see jesters get killed by mafia or hit by the NK. If you claim and there is no room, jailor will execute you or important roles will inno because 'it might be jester'. if you don't claim, mafia hits you because you're silent for a reason and are an important role. And mafia is sure as shit not gonna guilty you if you whisper them.

It is also NOT just a buff to jester. It's a buff to evils in general. Without jester, mafia often loses. Not always, but often. If it's not to town, it's because town decides to give lazy NK the win. Also, swagmm33, why not remove immunity from executioner then? They at least actively vote against the town, and should then also be one of the easiest roles to win as. Why give them immunity but not the jester, who's only winrate is hanging (exe has two, technically, since they can switch roles)

Thats the problem.... if you do the math, they will get insta lynched. Town loses 1 townie (possibly, jester may hit an evil) if it is jester... or they kill an NK/GF (confirming any other immune player as jester, making it even harder to win if NK and GF are dead). The risk warrants the lynch in an optimal play scenario, (for both town and mafia) and jester gets a free win for doing absolutely nothing.

[TheWinner2015]

This has been a suggestion since the beginning of time, and it should never be implemented.

The jester is one of the EASIEST roles to win with in the entire game! As kyuss already said, giving it an immunity even if it's only a one-time thing will make it even easier to win as! Everyone will want to lynch you and you don't even have to lift a finger.
It's ridiculously stupid, and even limits players to how they can kill a jester.


Look if I want to kill a jester because it's being annoying, I should be allowed to do so without having to waste a night.
Jesters need to earn their victory just as much as anyone else. It needs some sort of weakness to make up for its ability to win by being killed during the day. It is a trait no one else in the entire game has because it's suuuuuper easy...


Overall, the jester should never have any kind of natural immunity. It is a role that has no sides (unlike a witch), and has one of the easiest ways to win a game out of all the other roles. Giving it any sort of defense is just ludicrous.

I have a feeling that the people who support this only support it because of the one time they were jester and died night 1, or were killed by at night.
Anyone can die night 1, including roles that could automatically change, and do they get defense too? No. And neither should the jester.

/No support

I don't support what you're saying.
As a jester, I was claiming the 3rd medium is Ranked. Killed by the Vigilante the next night despite being put on trial and almost executed. There was zero reason to think I was a Jester, as a disguiser shot by the same vigilante was disguised as a jester. Not once did any of them think I was a Jester.

[Villagerlover]

This has been a suggestion since the beginning of time, and it should never be implemented.

The jester is one of the EASIEST roles to win with in the entire game! As kyuss already said, giving it an immunity even if it's only a one-time thing will make it even easier to win as! Everyone will want to lynch you and you don't even have to lift a finger.
It's ridiculously stupid, and even limits players to how they can kill a jester.


Look if I want to kill a jester because it's being annoying, I should be allowed to do so without having to waste a night.
Jesters need to earn their victory just as much as anyone else. It needs some sort of weakness to make up for its ability to win by being killed during the day. It is a trait no one else in the entire game has because it's suuuuuper easy...


Overall, the jester should never have any kind of natural immunity. It is a role that has no sides (unlike a witch), and has one of the easiest ways to win a game out of all the other roles. Giving it any sort of defense is just ludicrous.

I have a feeling that the people who support this only support it because of the one time they were jester and died night 1, or were killed by at night.
Anyone can die night 1, including roles that could automatically change, and do they get defense too? No. And neither should the jester.

/No support

I don't support what you're saying.
As a jester, I was claiming the 3rd medium is Ranked. Killed by the Vigilante the next night despite being put on trial and almost executed. There was zero reason to think I was a Jester, as a disguiser shot by the same vigilante was disguised as a jester. Not once did any of them think I was a Jester.

I mean, it's your opinion. But you're basing your opinion off of this one experience it seems.

Random stuff happens all the time. I've been random shot as mafia before, and as much as it sucks, it usually turns out to be little reason, or even a subtle one. Nothing you can do to predict accurately 100% of the time.

Just because the jester gets killed early on sometimes doesn't mean it should have defense. You're a selfish role, and you have the easiest goal in the entire game that literally does not revolve around anyone else. You don't need the defense.

[kyuss420]

This has been a suggestion since the beginning of time, and it should never be implemented.

The jester is one of the EASIEST roles to win with in the entire game! As kyuss already said, giving it an immunity even if it's only a one-time thing will make it even easier to win as! Everyone will want to lynch you and you don't even have to lift a finger.
It's ridiculously stupid, and even limits players to how they can kill a jester.


Look if I want to kill a jester because it's being annoying, I should be allowed to do so without having to waste a night.
Jesters need to earn their victory just as much as anyone else. It needs some sort of weakness to make up for its ability to win by being killed during the day. It is a trait no one else in the entire game has because it's suuuuuper easy...


Overall, the jester should never have any kind of natural immunity. It is a role that has no sides (unlike a witch), and has one of the easiest ways to win a game out of all the other roles. Giving it any sort of defense is just ludicrous.

I have a feeling that the people who support this only support it because of the one time they were jester and died night 1, or were killed by at night.
Anyone can die night 1, including roles that could automatically change, and do they get defense too? No. And neither should the jester.

/No support

I don't support what you're saying.
As a jester, I was claiming the 3rd medium is Ranked. Killed by the Vigilante the next night despite being put on trial and almost executed. There was zero reason to think I was a Jester, as a disguiser shot by the same vigilante was disguised as a jester. Not once did any of them think I was a Jester.

Put on trial and almost executed......

think you lost before the vigi shot you, dude

This whole thread is basically saying ''Force jailor to exe the jester in ranked''

[Duckferno]

Anyone agreeing with Jester having a one night of defense to be reasonable a bit?
No one here that agree's (as far as I know), has evidence that Jester needs it despite that they have the easiest goal in the game. It's debatable whether or not you're basing evidence of your experience with Jester, because using a one-time experience doesn't prove anything.

If you really can't win with Jester and you're craving for a win with them, just look up a guide or something. Or simple just act stupid and you could get lynched, it's not that hard.

[TheWinner2015]

I don't support what you're saying.
As a jester, I was claiming the 3rd medium is Ranked. Killed by the Vigilante the next night despite being put on trial and almost executed. There was zero reason to think I was a Jester, as a disguiser shot by the same vigilante was disguised as a jester. Not once did any of them think I was a Jester.

Actually, all of them thought you were a jester. Vigilante does not ignore night immunity. A vigilante would not waste a bullet on someone with night immunity who they know is evil. They would have lynched you if you had correctly managed to trick them into thinking you were a role with night immunity (aka evil).

They literally said I was not a jester.

[Brilliand]

I don't support what you're saying.
As a jester, I was claiming the 3rd medium is Ranked. Killed by the Vigilante the next night despite being put on trial and almost executed. There was zero reason to think I was a Jester, as a disguiser shot by the same vigilante was disguised as a jester. Not once did any of them think I was a Jester.

Actually, all of them thought you were a jester. Vigilante does not ignore night immunity. A vigilante would not waste a bullet on someone with night immunity who they know is evil. They would have lynched you if you had correctly managed to trick them into thinking you were a role with night immunity (aka evil).

They literally said I was not a jester.

Someone did. Clearly the town was divided.

The mafia was doing their job, but it sounds like the Vigilante got it right.

[Jackparrot]

That would make jester waaaaay too easy.

Jester gets hit.... everyone assumes theyre NK and lynches.

Takes any strategy out of getting yourself lynched, just wait until youre attacked and fake being NK.

Point being you should be trying to get lynched before you are attacked......maybe dont make a claim that will make you a target? Any role can be attacked early and die, thats really no reason a role should have defence

If jester is given 1 night defence, then wont people be suspicious that it is a jester just like some people suspect exe? What if I died N1? How could I possibly win? And you aren’t garenteed to be attacked at all, so waiting upon NK/maf/coven is not a reliable strategy.

[Villagerlover]

That would make jester waaaaay too easy.

Jester gets hit.... everyone assumes theyre NK and lynches.

Takes any strategy out of getting yourself lynched, just wait until youre attacked and fake being NK.

Point being you should be trying to get lynched before you are attacked......maybe dont make a claim that will make you a target? Any role can be attacked early and die, thats really no reason a role should have defence

If jester is given 1 night defence, then wont people be suspicious that it is a jester just like some people suspect exe? What if I died N1? How could I possibly win? And you aren’t garenteed to be attacked at all, so waiting upon NK/maf/coven is not a reliable strategy.

Here's a problem with that that a lot of you guys seem to overlook.
Yes, that is definitely a new tactic. Having immunity as a jester will make people think you're a jester sometimes. It's a new excuse.

But you're literally making the jester harder to kill.
Imagine a jester who has 1 night of auto-defense like a Witch. And why would it need it? Just so that it doesn't have the unlikely "unfair" scenario of being killed at night that literally every town role has? You're literally giving the other teams a harder time to deal with an easy role. It's really stupid. (Vigilantes, mafia, whatever)



Look, a Witch gets a one time auto-defense defense because it's goal is harder. It has to be alive AND win with anyone who isn't town. And it's kind of hard to do that when you don't have a direct way of killing town. It only makes sense.
The Executioner gets permanent basic defense because it's there to help protect you when you make accusations to get your target lynched. Making accusations in this game is a bit of a string to pull, and can usually involve being attacked at night. So it only makes sense.

But the Jester is a different story.
You are not involved with anyone else's being. You are 100% selfish, and don't care who wins or loses as long as you get yourself lynched. You have 100% immunity to 1 type of death that no one else will ever have, and it's something to work with.
So why would you need the defense? You don't.
You have the easiest goal in the entire game, and that's not mentioning when an Executioner's target dies, and they become a jester....why bother giving it a 1-time defense when it originally had permanent defense? It's pointless.

This suggestion should not be implemented because it makes the Jester way too easy to win with. You could probably go AFK all game and win since your defense will protect you and get you lynched without a peep.

[Brilliand]

You have the easiest goal in the entire game, and that's not mentioning when an Executioner's target dies, and they become a jester....why bother giving it a 1-time defense when it originally had permanent defense? It's pointless.

Seems a bit unfair to the true Jesters that an exe-turned-jester can have defense for a while then win by being lynched... don't it?

Maybe Jester should have defense Night 1 (and only Night 1), to close the gap between true Jesters and the Exes who turn jester almost immediately.

[Villagerlover]

You have the easiest goal in the entire game, and that's not mentioning when an Executioner's target dies, and they become a jester....why bother giving it a 1-time defense when it originally had permanent defense? It's pointless.

Seems a bit unfair to the true Jesters that an exe-turned-jester can have defense for a while then win by being lynched... don't it?

Maybe Jester should have defense Night 1 (and only Night 1), to close the gap between true Jesters and the Exes who turn jester almost immediately.

No.
It is fair.
You had immunity for a short period as an Executioner, sure, but you also had an entirely different goal that involved hurting someone else.

Man, the idea that the Jester should have a Night 1 defense would then be applied to other roles like Amnesiacs or town roles who could unfairly get into a disadvantage because the mafia got a lucky shot on night 1. This has been the same argument used for the entirety of the game's history, and it's just not going to happen unless the devs decide to remove Night 1 as a whole.

The most that is ever going to happen is that you will occasionally be the unlucky victim of a night 1 attack, and you just gotta deal with it. (Whether that be leaving the game immediately or just staying to see what happens)