Dead Can't Taunt the Living

[Digiquo]

Just had a game where I was lynched for no reason other than the fact that I was taunted by one of my victims the day after I killed him. The dead shouldn't be able to interact with the living at all (aside talking to Medium), including taunts. Requesting that using taunts be disabled when dead.

[Duckferno]

How does this affect the game. You said you were lynched because you were taunted? Do you have screenshots of someone deliberately saying "We're lynching you because you were taunted." Otherwise I don't see how The dead taunting you affects the game at all.

[mzann1]

How does this affect the game. You said you were lynched because you were taunted? Do you have screenshots of someone deliberately saying "We're lynching you because you were taunted." Otherwise I don't see how The dead taunting you affects the game at all.

Well i've seen lot of times when players get killed by Medusa (visiting by their own choice), they always taunt the person who they visited with the RIP or the Frog (which are the most noticeable) and getting Medusa lynched right away.

Even i did as Pirate, i pirated a SK, then i taunted the person i tried plunder and boom, SK got lynched..

[kyuss420]

How does this affect the game. You said you were lynched because you were taunted? Do you have screenshots of someone deliberately saying "We're lynching you because you were taunted." Otherwise I don't see how The dead taunting you affects the game at all.

Well i've seen lot of times when players get killed by Medusa (visiting by their own choice), they always taunt the person who they visited with the RIP or the Frog (which are the most noticeable) and getting Medusa lynched right away.

Even i did as Pirate, i pirated a SK, then i taunted the person i tried plunder and boom, SK got lynched..

and Im the kind of guy that taunts a random when Im medusa and i just stoned someone. Maybe 1 in 10 times town will mislynch. Pro towns wont lynch based on a taunt alone.

If you got taunted and had no alibi, fake role and fake will ready..... then sorry, but it wasnt because of the taunt that you were lynched. Looks like youve played with some pretty noob medusas.

Best one was when I taunted the VIP. No one blinked, didnt even ask him for a role..... yep, crus was controlled and the VIP died that night, thanks town !

All Im reading in this post is ''I cant handle fake claiming early game as evil''

Also i dont understand why a dead pirate would taunt an SK, except for the salt factor.....stop playing like town, your a neutral, its not your job to give town information (town sure wont give you any for free).....no wonder you cant handle a taunt

[danihaley]

and Im the kind of guy that taunts a random when Im medusa and i just stoned someone. Maybe 1 in 10 times town will mislynch. Pro towns wont lynch based on a taunt alone.

The primary argument for keeping taunts in games is that evils can too use them to trick the town, as you've been saying; but most evils do not consider taunting to be a manipulative strategy. Out of all taunts I've seen, less than 10% have been from evils trying to mislead town.

A situation where a sheriff finds a mafia member, dies, and taunts them the next day happens WAY more frequently than a situation where a sheriff checks a town member, dies, and an evil decides to taunt that town member in order to try to frame them. You may use taunts as a strategy as an evil, but the MAJORITY of evil players do not.

[mzann1]

How does this affect the game. You said you were lynched because you were taunted? Do you have screenshots of someone deliberately saying "We're lynching you because you were taunted." Otherwise I don't see how The dead taunting you affects the game at all.

Well i've seen lot of times when players get killed by Medusa (visiting by their own choice), they always taunt the person who they visited with the RIP or the Frog (which are the most noticeable) and getting Medusa lynched right away.

Even i did as Pirate, i pirated a SK, then i taunted the person i tried plunder and boom, SK got lynched..

and Im the kind of guy that taunts a random when Im medusa and i just stoned someone. Maybe 1 in 10 times town will mislynch. Pro towns wont lynch based on a taunt alone.

If you got taunted and had no alibi, fake role and fake will ready..... then sorry, but it wasnt because of the taunt that you were lynched. Looks like youve played with some pretty noob medusas.

Best one was when I taunted the VIP. No one blinked, didnt even ask him for a role..... yep, crus was controlled and the VIP died that night, thanks town !

All Im reading in this post is ''I cant handle fake claiming early game as evil''

Also i dont understand why a dead pirate would taunt an SK, except for the salt factor.....stop playing like town, your a neutral, its not your job to give town information (town sure wont give you any for free).....no wonder you cant handle a taunt

You're dumb buddy lmao, i already won 2 duels when i died to SK, what if i want to help town? that's my choice, simple as that. And i'm not the one complaining about taunts, dumbass

[Duckferno]

and Im the kind of guy that taunts a random when Im medusa and i just stoned someone. Maybe 1 in 10 times town will mislynch. Pro towns wont lynch based on a taunt alone.

The primary argument for keeping taunts in games is that evils can too use them to trick the town, as you've been saying; but most evils do not consider taunting to be a manipulative strategy. Out of all taunts I've seen, less than 10% have been from evils trying to mislead town.

A situation where a sheriff finds a mafia member, dies, and taunts them the next day happens WAY more frequently than a situation where a sheriff checks a town member, dies, and an evil decides to taunt that town member in order to try to frame them. You may use taunts as a strategy as an evil, but the MAJORITY of evil players do not.

First and for most, I didn't say that, you quoted wrong. Second, not a lot of people have taunts and it wasn't the taunt that got you lynched, it was out of suspicion. You can use taunting as a strategy but it really doesn't work out to well. This argument is stupid, anyone should be able to taunt, regardless dead or alive.

[Digiquo]

How does this affect the game. You said you were lynched because you were taunted? Do you have screenshots of someone deliberately saying "We're lynching you because you were taunted." Otherwise I don't see how The dead taunting you affects the game at all.

This is exactly what happened, townie voted to lynch me because, and I quote, dead taunted him, lynch him. Dead being able to taunt, especially confirmed dead sheriff or invest, is a huge tell to the rest of the town, and shouldn't be permitted. Players are already quick to lynch on next to 0 evidence, an invest role taunting their killer the next day is more than enough to get that person lynched, and frankly I would consider it cheating.

At the very least, taunts from dead players should be anonymous so town can't know who is taunting. This way dead could still taunt, but there's no guarantee it was malicious or not.

[kyuss420]

and Im the kind of guy that taunts a random when Im medusa and i just stoned someone. Maybe 1 in 10 times town will mislynch. Pro towns wont lynch based on a taunt alone.

The primary argument for keeping taunts in games is that evils can too use them to trick the town, as you've been saying; but most evils do not consider taunting to be a manipulative strategy. Out of all taunts I've seen, less than 10% have been from evils trying to mislead town.

A situation where a sheriff finds a mafia member, dies, and taunts them the next day happens WAY more frequently than a situation where a sheriff checks a town member, dies, and an evil decides to taunt that town member in order to try to frame them. You may use taunts as a strategy as an evil, but the MAJORITY of evil players do not.

I see evils using taunts all the time, especially in situations where most dead townies would taunt. I could also argue that the MAJORITY of evil players have never thought about the optimal moves/strategies at their disposal either. I mean everyone knows the TP/LO on jailor day 1 as an optimal town strat, but how many evil strategies for night 1,2 and 3 do you hear about? I know a few, my friends know a few, but theyre not common knowledge.... they exist tho. If evil players choose not to make an optimal move in an optimal situation, such as dropping a taunt, then chances are that theyve lost by day 2 anyway, regardless of whether they are outed by a taunt or not.

I also see a lot of townies taunting from the graveyard and town doing nothing about the taunts, or the evil player coming up with a solid role and will and town not bothering with them.

I also see evils taunting 2 or 3 randoms after the first taunt was dropped, so they arent the only taunted player on the field.

Point being, just because the majority of players dont do something, doesnt mean they cant, and town getting used to lynching off of taunts is good for players like me, it makes them easier to be manipulated when theyre in one of my games, when im evil....if Im jester, i just do it for the lols anyway. You guys make it sound like executioner is an auto win if he taunts his target....

[SwampRabbit]

I LOVE taunts! They are so much fun. Occasionally I will taunt someone I know is evil from the graveyard, but mostly, I use them when I am still alive (as either town or evil).

One thing I almost always do is when I see a sheriff or investigator died n1 to evil, I taunt the person they investigated, regardless of whether I am town or evil. If the person is able to defend themselves, then they don't get lynched.

And let me point this out to the original poster. Even though I am alive and have taunted the player, I always claim to town that the dead TI must have done it, knowing full well I did it. So the original poster has absolutely no way to know who taunts him in game.

As for not being able to taunt while dead, that is just stupid. Most of my taunts while dead are when I am evil and trying to confuse the town. Taunts from the graveyard are not limited to town folks, so it does not make the game unbalanced in any way. Taunts also can be won weekly in the witch pot or bought with gold coins won in the witch pot, so they are available to all players regardless of whether players spend money.

These days, I mostly play ranked and people whine about taunts all the time (people in ranked whine about everything tbh). If you are a good player in an evil role, taunts have zero effect on your game, and if you use them as I do when I am alive and evil, then it is another way to trick dumb players. There are some games where I am taunted daily from d2 (day and night taunts) until end of game when I am still alive. Play better and taunts will not matter.

ALSO, Have you never seen someone taunt a player who died that day and turn them into a dead frog???? There is nothing cuter. Taunts (not counting the dog peeing one and the fireworks one--they are both not very noticeable) are the best thing BMG added to the game and every player in the game (alive or dead) should be able to use the ones they have.

And to be totally honest, I am kind of tired of players who are not very good at the game complaining nonstop about the mechanics of the game. (taunts and retris especially).

[kyuss420]

I LOVE taunts! They are so much fun. Occasionally I will taunt someone I know is evil from the graveyard, but mostly, I use them when I am still alive (as either town or evil).

One thing I almost always do is when I see a sheriff or investigator died n1 to evil, I taunt the person they investigated, regardless of whether I am town or evil. If the person is able to defend themselves, then they don't get lynched.

And let me point this out to the original poster. Even though I am alive and have taunted the player, I always claim to town that the dead TI must have done it, knowing full well I did it. So the original poster has absolutely no way to know who taunts him in game.

As for not being able to taunt while dead, that is just stupid. Most of my taunts while dead are when I am evil and trying to confuse the town. Taunts from the graveyard are not limited to town folks, so it does not make the game unbalanced in any way. Taunts also can be won weekly in the witch pot or bought with gold coins won in the witch pot, so they are available to all players regardless of whether players spend money.

These days, I mostly play ranked and people whine about taunts all the time (people in ranked whine about everything tbh). If you are a good player in an evil role, taunts have zero effect on your game, and if you use them as I do when I am alive and evil, then it is another way to trick dumb players. There are some games where I am taunted daily from d2 (day and night taunts) until end of game when I am still alive. Play better and taunts will not matter.

ALSO, Have you never seen someone taunt a player who died that day and turn them into a dead frog???? There is nothing cuter. Taunts (not counting the dog peeing one and the fireworks one--they are both not very noticeable) are the best thing BMG added to the game and every player in the game (alive or dead) should be able to use the ones they have.

And to be totally honest, I am kind of tired of players who are not very good at the game complaining nonstop about the mechanics of the game. (taunts and retris especially).

This guy gets it.

I mean, Ive even taunted my own medusa, when theyve become useless (thats day 3, if anyone was wondering), just to take the heat off of my Coven Leader.

As an evil role, you can get punished hard from a small mistake, 1 wrong move at night, or 1 wrong sentence during the day can snowball into a chain reaction that costs you the game. Once you figure that out, and play accordingly, then getting taunted becomes meaningless.

Its funny, how the Town metas, (like TP/LO on the jailor claim n1 for example) take off really fast. Then when you come up with a good mafia (or coven) strat, no one pays attention.
Like, everyone understands whats happening when town implement a strategy, in like 10-20 games. But play an evil faction with the same person for 50-80 games, over a 2 month period, and they will still have no clue why you are doing what youre doing, or what they should be doing on the same night, for the optimum chances to win.

[kyuss420]

When you die, you are out of the game

so how do you still win, when your out of the game?

[Duckferno]

When you die, you are out of the game

so how do you still win, when your out of the game?

Exactly, if you leave and your faction or team wins, you lose. You're not entirely out of the game. Jester still needs to haunt, Medium can still seance, or dead players can give information to a medium. Doesn't matter if its a slight chance, you're only out of the game if you leave.

[Duckferno]

I would agree on removing them from ranked, or something similar. Just thought removing taunts from the dead was stupid if it was in a casual mode.

[kyuss420]

But let's say that was a bad argument. Read my thread on why taunts should be removed from ranked and ranked practice to understand why this mechanic is bad:

That's not even the problem with the suggestion, anyone can send taunts, even dead scummies.

My problem is players who pay get more advantage in a game that's also directly accessable to players who like freemium.

Well, thats just hard facts of life bro, (or the hard facts of the capitalist system, that we are all forced to support) people who pay, get more advantage than those who dont. And the more you pay, the bigger the advantage you get. (especially when it comes to business, which is what the game is, in the developers eyes) I dont think theres anything in life where this isnt the case....

[MysticMismagius]

But let's say that was a bad argument. Read my thread on why taunts should be removed from ranked and ranked practice to understand why this mechanic is bad:

That's not even the problem with the suggestion, anyone can send taunts, even dead scummies.

My problem is players who pay get more advantage in a game that's also directly accessable to players who like freemium.

Well, thats just hard facts of life bro, (or the hard facts of the capitalist system, that we are all forced to support) people who pay, get more advantage than those who dont. And the more you pay, the bigger the advantage you get. (especially when it comes to business, which is what the game is, in the developers eyes) I dont think theres anything in life where this isnt the case....

Can the art... not imitate life for once? Just because real life works a certain way doesn’t mean a fictional video game has to or should also work that way. P2W mechanics are bad game design, and being realistic doesn’t make them less bad.

[Brilliand]

And, from the perspective of someone who likes realism in games: Realistic games are supposed to imitate real life, not get straight-up attached to real life. "P2W" mechanics where you pay in-game currency that you earned in that same playthrough to get an advantage are normal and healthy, albeit part of a genre of games that Town of Salem isn't part of.

The simulationist purpose of a game is destroyed by having the game directly interact with the real-life thing that it's simulating.

[kyuss420]

But let's say that was a bad argument. Read my thread on why taunts should be removed from ranked and ranked practice to understand why this mechanic is bad:

That's not even the problem with the suggestion, anyone can send taunts, even dead scummies.

My problem is players who pay get more advantage in a game that's also directly accessable to players who like freemium.

Well, thats just hard facts of life bro, (or the hard facts of the capitalist system, that we are all forced to support) people who pay, get more advantage than those who dont. And the more you pay, the bigger the advantage you get. (especially when it comes to business, which is what the game is, in the developers eyes) I dont think theres anything in life where this isnt the case....

Can the art... not imitate life for once? Just because real life works a certain way doesn’t mean a fictional video game has to or should also work that way. P2W mechanics are bad game design, and being realistic doesn’t make them less bad.

Point being, while its just a fictional video game, and a bit of fun for us, To developers, its how they put food on their table and a very serious business.

If people didnt spend real money, the company dies and the games ceases to exist. As in real life, people wont spend their hard earned real money, if they arent getting anything for it.

So the problem is, if real life works a certain way, then the management have to work a certain way, or they cease to exist in real life.

P2W is bad game design, but thats what pays the bills and keeps the lights on. Games that dont follow the design, usually have a 2-3 year life span and end up costing more money than what they make. Chinese gaming companies wont even touch a game, unless its designed to pull $1mill USD in its first week, but they dont target microtransacrions, they would prefer 1 player that will pay $100 per week, than 100 players that will pay $1. If you think devs who rely on microtransactions, make Pay 2 win games, then you havent seen a pay2win freemium game.

So basically the devs have 2 options to fix this.
1) keep things as they are, so anyone can afford to pay $1 for 30 taunts, if they choose to (this sale pops up at least once per week and includes 1200 TP)
2) raise the price of taunts so that only the real big spenders will use them, and cover the loss of all the microtransactions (meaning, maybe 1 person in a 15 player game will have access to taunts and counter taunting wont happen)

3rd option, of course, is to listen to you guys and lose the income from the microtransactions altogether, to keep the ''free'' players happier. I think youre gonna need stronger arguements to get that past the CEO.

[MysticMismagius]

I don’t think taunts make a significant amount of BMG’s money. Ads, daily deals, skins, buying the freakin’ game itself since it’s P2P now, all bring in way more revenue than taunts do. I get your point that taunts make money, but I don’t think BMG would die if they were made available for Merit Coins, or restricted to only living players.

[Duckferno]

I don’t think taunts make a significant amount of BMG’s money. Ads, daily deals, skins, buying the freakin’ game itself since it’s P2P now, all bring in way more revenue than taunts do. I get your point that taunts make money, but I don’t think BMG would die if they were made available for Merit Coins, or restricted to only living players.

Actually, they would make more off those than the game it's self. Literally most games have micro-transactions and that's what they make off their games. Making it P2P is for new players, and that gives them a little more money. But the in-game items that you can buy for all under $5 or 4 pounds, etc; make more money over time which keeps the business going.

[kyuss420]

I don’t think taunts make a significant amount of BMG’s money. Ads, daily deals, skins, buying the freakin’ game itself since it’s P2P now, all bring in way more revenue than taunts do. I get your point that taunts make money, but I don’t think BMG would die if they were made available for Merit Coins, or restricted to only living players.

Actually, they would make more off those than the game it's self. Literally most games have micro-transactions and that's what they make off their games. Making it P2P is for new players, and that gives them a little more money. But the in-game items that you can buy for all under $5 or 4 pounds, etc; make more money over time which keeps the business going.

exactly, consumables guarantee repeat business.

The game, skins, pets, maps, etc are all a 1 off purchase. 100 x $10 accounts from 2016, means they made $1000 three years ago... add $10 worth of skins and pets per account to those accounts and its another $1k over 3 years. 6 years ago, Facebook charged $280 per day to rent a server, (no idea what it would cost these days) just over $10 an hour, to keep a game running, if Steam charge around the same price, then those 100 accounts kept the game alive for about 5 days.

Even the coven DLC... i dont see 100 new players a week in coven mode, so they would be making less than $500 a week on that, so Id have to argue that scrolls and taunts would be the most significant in game revenue earners.

As for the daily deals, most of them include taunts, scrolls and TP so you are correct in that regard, mystic the others that dont include consumables, disappear after purchase, so they are also 1 off purchases.

The ad revenue, logic would dictate, would probably also be a significant revenue

[SwampRabbit]

This guy gets it.

Not a guy.

[Duckferno]

No one plays coven ranked, so why the hell take it out. There is only a serial killer in regular ranked and that's the only disadvantage they might have? You're putting work on dev's for something that does little to nothing.

[kyuss420]

Just because something makes money doesn't mean it should stick around. I'm not saying remove it from every single mode, I'm saying take it out of Ranked and RP.

Thats all well and good in theory. But seeing as the world is run under a capitalist system, fact is, the only things that dont stick around, are things that dont make money (like, for eg. games that are unprofitable)

You gotta come up with a better arguement than ''it isnt fair'' if you want to convince management types to make consumers reduce spending.

[Duckferno]

Telling Mafia who till kill isn't an advantage..