LEAVERS should be punised more

[rasfisch]

In every single game you'll see 3-5 people leave. I had 3 games in a row as mafia where my ENTIRE team left. They even left once where we had majority so we would have 100% won if they didn't leave.

Leavers ruin the game. It might not seem significant when you see a single bg leave or maybe a lil' investigator. But it makes a huge difference. If bg leaves jailor will die, mayor will die, every important role will easily die. If investigator leaves, it'll be harder to find mafs. NO MATTER WHICH ROLE the result is the exact same. it causes a massive chain of events that ultimately will make the side with the highest percentage of leavers lose.

Winning or losing is in the majority of games no longer based on whether you play smart enough or not. It is simple based which side has the highest percentage of leavers. Especially when a mafia leaves who stands for 25% of the team. They almost always lose. I have even been collecting Data on just how big of a difference leavers make. It is insane. When just one mafia leaves, their chance of winning is almost halved. HALVED! but it makes sense. if one leaves, then jailor wont spend a night executing him or town wont spend a lynch on him. That means maf will get an extra kill. And in late game one extra kill is huge.

Leavers should be getting a temp ban. Seeing as how I can safely assume that more people play ranked practice than ranked due to the insane wait time on ranked, it only makes sense to give leavers a temp ban even on Ranked Practice. LEAVERS RUIN THE GAME.

[Jerme]

I do agree on the fact that Leavers ruin the game, but there are multiple reasons someone left the game. When we see that the player left on purpose, we will punish them, otherwise not, since disconnects could happen. Sadly we have no detection of the way how a player left, which eventually could get abused as well.

[Brilliand]

The game should change to not promote leaving so much.

1. Balance out the roles so none of them suck to play as.
2. Give players more control over what roles they get, so they have less reason to scum for them.

[kyuss420]

The game should change to not promote leaving so much.

1. Balance out the roles so none of them suck to play as.
2. Give players more control over what roles they get, so they have less reason to scum for them.

* none of the roles suck, people just suck at playing them
* theyre called scrolls, altho they dont work in ranked, but what happens when you have 15 players all wanting the same faction, or the same role?

[Brilliand]

what happens when you have 15 players all wanting the same faction, or the same role?

I've made a suggestion elsewhere that solves this - I'm sure you've even commented on it.

Break up the lobby system, so that when too many people want the same role or faction, they can be put in separate games.

[noveiia]

I do agree on the fact that Leavers ruin the game, but there are multiple reasons someone left the game. When we see that the player left on purpose, we will punish them, otherwise not, since disconnects could happen. Sadly we have no detection of the way how a player left, which eventually could get abused as well.

Is there plans to implement a system to tell how a player left or to enable reconnections?

[Jerme]

I do agree on the fact that Leavers ruin the game, but there are multiple reasons someone left the game. When we see that the player left on purpose, we will punish them, otherwise not, since disconnects could happen. Sadly we have no detection of the way how a player left, which eventually could get abused as well.

Is there plans to implement a system to tell how a player left or to enable reconnections?

Its planned to add a way to reconnect, yet its not currently worked on and requires more time for implemention I believe. Its not planned look for a way to determine how a player left, though.

The game should change to not promote leaving so much.

1. Balance out the roles so none of them suck to play as.
2. Give players more control over what roles they get, so they have less reason to scum for them.

The game does not promote leaving at all (unless you mean the leave button).
Regarding your raised points: Each role has currently their own pros and cons, so its mostly the player themself, which role they like and which not (and thus is frustrated, neutral or happy about the role they got). The player is nothing we can fix. To the second one, its a bit difficult to give the player control about their role... The roles are handed out randomly (a bit influenced by the possible existance of scrolls), having them be partially selectable would be giving players and unfair advantage, if they know the preferred roles of their fellow players (=premade teams are givne that way an advantage thgey are not supposed to have).

[ElleJoy]

The absolute ONLY condition to leaving should be timing out/disconnecting or if you're already dead (though even this can screw things up considering the amount of people who leave Ret/Med screwed because they bounce).

If you can't finish or have to go AFK, you shouldn't be logging in to play. Plain as that. If you hate your role, get over it and suck it up like the rest of us have to. So sick of having games ruined by people dropping or disappearing. Stops being fun when you can't actually win because people don't stick around.

Harsher punishments for people who leave will stop people from leaving so easily. Compile the punishments. Leave once? 10 minute wait for next game. Leave two games? 20 minutes? Leave three games. 30 minutes. Leave more than 5 games? Full day ban. Leave after that? Bye.

There is no reason to leave a game voluntarily, and it needs to be settled, cause it's ruining ToS.

[Brilliand]

There is no reason to leave a game voluntarily, and it needs to be settled, cause it's ruining ToS.

You mentioned a reason to leave, and said "suck it up". You can't follow that with "there is no reason to leave".

[MysticMismagius]

There is no reason to leave a game voluntarily, and it needs to be settled, cause it's ruining ToS.

You mentioned a reason to leave, and said "suck it up". You can't follow that with "there is no reason to leave".

LMAO hating your role is not a valid reason to leave. I'm with ElleJoy on that one.

[Brilliand]

There is no reason to leave a game voluntarily, and it needs to be settled, cause it's ruining ToS.

You mentioned a reason to leave, and said "suck it up". You can't follow that with "there is no reason to leave".

LMAO hating your role is not a valid reason to leave. I'm with ElleJoy on that one.

Should have qualified it with "valid" then.

It's definitely enough of a reason that in practice, it sometimes motivates people to leave.

[Flavorable]

The thing is that it's impossible to tell whether someone left of their own accord, or if they DCed. Since leaving makes you DC. And sure, there could probably be months upon months of programming to tell whether someone closed the game or actually DCed, but it's not that hard to fake a disconnection.

I feel it should just go back to the way it was, where people who left a ridiculous amount of times get punished regardless of the reason, luckily, as far as I know, there are plans for a Leaverbuster-type-thing after Unity is finished.

[pramit57]

I second this suggestion, and I will add that you can simply punish leavers that leave a number of games consecutively https://www.reddit.com/r/TownofSalemgam ... in_ranked/

[ElleJoy]

There is no reason to leave a game voluntarily, and it needs to be settled, cause it's ruining ToS.

You mentioned a reason to leave, and said "suck it up". You can't follow that with "there is no reason to leave".

LMAO hating your role is not a valid reason to leave. I'm with ElleJoy on that one.

Should have qualified it with "valid" then.

It's definitely enough of a reason that in practice, it sometimes motivates people to leave.

This is borderline semantics, my dude. I said there is only ONE [valid] reason to leave, and that's if you disconnect/time out. Hating your role isn't a valid reason, and it shouldn't be seen as one. It's obviously a problem, because I'd say 90% of the games I join have leavers d1, now, and it ends up more often than not, screwing up the game for one side of the field, enough that they lose or more people leave. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that leaving because you hate your role is the number one REASON we need harsher punishment for droppers.

[Brilliand]

This is borderline semantics, my dude. I said there is only ONE [valid] reason to leave, and that's if you disconnect/time out. Hating your role isn't a valid reason, and it shouldn't be seen as one. It's obviously a problem, because I'd say 90% of the games I join have leavers d1, now, and it ends up more often than not, screwing up the game for one side of the field, enough that they lose or more people leave. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that leaving because you hate your role is the number one REASON we need harsher punishment for droppers.

Okay. I think I am contradicting you, though, because you seem to be holding an implicit view that any motive that isn't valid (read: admirable) may not be acknowledged, and therefore anyone who does something for an un-admirable reason is doing it for no reason, and therefore merely being a jerk if their actions happen to hurt anyone else.

I want to acknowledge what's actually motivating these people. They're doing these things for a reason, a reason that actually has some bearing on their well-being even if it isn't how the game is meant to be played. I think you're right that leaving should have harsher penalties than the "no penalty" it has currently, but the decision to add penalties needs to involve considering those people's perspectives and whether they can still enjoy the game with the penalties in place (or whether we're better off without those people - which I'll warn you is likely a large group of people).

[ElleJoy]

This is borderline semantics, my dude. I said there is only ONE [valid] reason to leave, and that's if you disconnect/time out. Hating your role isn't a valid reason, and it shouldn't be seen as one. It's obviously a problem, because I'd say 90% of the games I join have leavers d1, now, and it ends up more often than not, screwing up the game for one side of the field, enough that they lose or more people leave. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that leaving because you hate your role is the number one REASON we need harsher punishment for droppers.

Okay. I think I am contradicting you, though, because you seem to be holding an implicit view that any motive that isn't valid (read: admirable) may not be acknowledged, and therefore anyone who does something for an un-admirable reason is doing it for no reason, and therefore merely being a jerk if their actions happen to hurt anyone else.

I want to acknowledge what's actually motivating these people. They're doing these things for a reason, a reason that actually has some bearing on their well-being even if it isn't how the game is meant to be played. I think you're right that leaving should have harsher penalties than the "no penalty" it has currently, but the decision to add penalties needs to involve considering those people's perspectives and whether they can still enjoy the game with the penalties in place (or whether we're better off without those people - which I'll warn you is likely a large group of people).

So what are you suggestion? Because honestly, I see nothing helpful about a contribution that just denies a proposed solution without suggesting an alternative. I don't see and haven't been given any reason to leave a game that isn't to some degree punishable. I'm sorry, but leaving because you don't like a role is a crap reason for leaving. Part of the game is learning to play every role - I suck at trans. I'm absolutely trash at it, and nine outta ten times, I end up killing town over maf or getting myself shot by a vig because of it - but that doesn't mean every time I roll out trans, I quit. Yes. It's hard to win as Mafia - it's also hard to win a 100 yard dash against a Kenyan... should everyone just stop trying? The point is to get -better- at winning as mafia. I have a pretty decent win streak as mafia because I think outside the box and -try-. The roles don't need to be improved... people just need to stop being lazy and expecting wins to be handed to them.

I don't see a reason to involve the perspective of the quitters, because they obviously don't consider anyone else when they choose to drop out of a game, hosing the people who stuck it out and stayed.

I will stand by what I said - leaving for any reason beyond a time out or disconnection from the server should be punished to some degree. Otherwise, it's just gonna get worse and people are gonna just stop playing. It's not something you have to agree with me on, and I am absolutely open to hear your opinion... but as of yet, I don't see you giving any viable punishment alternatives, so it just feels like mollycoddling the leavers, which helps basically no one.

[Brilliand]

I will stand by what I said - leaving for any reason beyond a time out or disconnection from the server should be punished to some degree. Otherwise, it's just gonna get worse and people are gonna just stop playing. It's not something you have to agree with me on, and I am absolutely open to hear your opinion... but as of yet, I don't see you giving any viable punishment alternatives, so it just feels like mollycoddling the leavers, which helps basically no one.

Oh, I agree with this part - there should be a penalty for leaving. I haven't given any specific plans for how to punish leavers because I know the devs have some sort of plan for this, and without knowing what it is, I figure that it's probably a good enough plan.

...but if I were designing the leaverbuster system, I would prevent the leaver from joining another game until the game they left has come to an end. That precisely negates the usefulness of startscumming for your favorite role, while not even inconveniencing those players who legitimately have to go.

[ElleJoy]

I will stand by what I said - leaving for any reason beyond a time out or disconnection from the server should be punished to some degree. Otherwise, it's just gonna get worse and people are gonna just stop playing. It's not something you have to agree with me on, and I am absolutely open to hear your opinion... but as of yet, I don't see you giving any viable punishment alternatives, so it just feels like mollycoddling the leavers, which helps basically no one.

Oh, I agree with this part - there should be a penalty for leaving. I haven't given any specific plans for how to punish leavers because I know the devs have some sort of plan for this, and without knowing what it is, I figure that it's probably a good enough plan.

...but if I were designing the leaverbuster system, I would prevent the leaver from joining another game until the game they left has come to an end. That precisely negates the usefulness of startscumming for your favorite role, while not even inconveniencing those players who legitimately have to go.

And now we're friends, because that's an incredibly smart idea LOL I really really like that, actually. Perfect way to prevent random dropping.

[Duckferno]

@ElleJoy,

If you are really so concerned and angry when people leave, and you want people to stay in games. Maybe you should start out by doing that yourself and maybe others might be influenced(not really). I've been in a game before with you, and you left as Medium the first night, you can deny it, but I believe it.(Could Be Disconnection). But that's beside the point. Also I am not 100% it was you, but the user was similar if I remember right.

-Duckferno

There is no reason to leave beside's Disconnection, and if you are reported for it, it should be obvious to the moderators. For instance, if it's a ranked game and they are Mafia, more specifically, Framer and they leave the First Night. You should be able to know he left because he hated his role. It's simple psychology, if it's a type of role that doesn't impact the game as much as, for say, a Janitor instead of a Framer, or a Retributionist instead of a medium. Players for some reason don't understand a role's pro's and con's and make it think its OK to leave, but it's really obvious.

I've had a game where someone left as Juggernaut and everyone started spamming "Report!!", like that's ridiculous. It was an obvious disconnection, since the role is extremely unique. But I would have to argue differently if you left a Neutral. That would seem justifiable to some roles, imo.

Leaving because you don't like your role is not a valid reason. If you're the type of player that wants to win in things like ranked games. You would want to be with town because of the majority start off. But if you're Mafia and you hate mafia, and you leave. That means you're a selfish sore loser. If you're in a ranked game and you are Mafia. That is literally one of the most effective ways to show true skill in the game. Instead of leaving try to play your role for at least two nights, then try the entire game. The whole point of the game is to learn how to play a role and be skilled with it. Because once you've done that every game will be easy as hell for you.

Or make it like it used to be regardless of the reason and only add that to all platforms but mobile, since mobile has a lot of disconnections.

Leavers should be getting a temp ban. Seeing as how I can safely assume that more people play ranked practice than ranked due to the insane wait time on ranked, it only makes sense to give leavers a temp ban even on Ranked Practice. LEAVERS RUIN THE GAME.

But what if it was a disconnection. Wouldn't that not be fair, and if they keep leaving what eventually happens is that they get banned? If you're saying like 3-5 minutes, I would agree, but if it were hours that's too much and it would build and eventually become a day ban if you leave. People will stop playing the game, so there is a better solution than this, I hope.

[JacksonVirgo]

How would the reconnection thing even work at all? When you disconnect, you die and your role gets revealed to town. So when you reconnect you will be completely confirmed and that can be abused like nobodies business.

[MysticMismagius]

I imagine you'd only be able to reconnect before you die (so before the next day starts).

[Duckferno]

Would you recommend a sort of system, so when you leave/disconnect and you want to rejoin after it said you died, you can reconnect and be able to go back to life. And instead of it displaying your role right away it can wait till the third night and show your role if you haven't reconnected yet. But it can only be used before the third night?

[Brilliand]

Would you recommend a sort of system, so when you leave/disconnect and you want to rejoin after it said you died, you can reconnect and be able to go back to life. And instead of it displaying your role right away it can wait till the third night and show your role if you haven't reconnected yet. But it can only be used before the third night?

I'd go a little farther, and make leavers stay alive (but without a vote, and making it clear that they're disconnected). That still allows other players to kill/lynch them, but otherwise gives them as much time as possible to reconnect.

[ElleJoy]

@ElleJoy,

If you are really so concerned and angry when people leave, and you want people to stay in games. Maybe you should start out by doing that yourself and maybe others might be influenced. I've been in a game before with you, and you left as Medium the first night, you can deny it, but I believe it.(Could Be Disconnection). But that's beside the point.

-Duckferno

like

??? I've literally never left a game intentionally, and wouldn't leave as Medium even if I was one of those sorts, because I happen to love (and scroll frequently) for medium. And I've only ever disconnected twice since I started playing -- once when I first started during server lag and once a few days ago when my laptop shut down on me without warning. Why would I complain about something I felt so strongly about if I was also guilty of doing it myself? Please be careful about making accusations unless you're 100% sure you know what you're talking about.

[Duckferno]

I am 100% sure you left, but I won't get into details because that would get the thread off topic. Also, whether you are strongly supporting something if you did do it or not, there is a low chance to prove if it was a disconnection or left on purpose. (without screenshots, etc)