alex1234321 wrote:How to fix NK:
1. Give SK a Conqueror-type wincon. That is, it should automatically win in situations where all opposing players are part of different factions. That would greatly reduce the number of kingmaker situations it can get into. The other NKs (and Pest) should all get this wincon, but it's most important for SK.
2. Ban Werewolf from Ranked. Only because it relies on night numbers. Werewolf can easily be reworked by requiring it to wait a night after killing 2+ people and letting it rampage every night outside the cooldown. Make that change and Werewolf is fine imo.
3. Remove passive douses. Give Arsonist a one-time simultaneous douse+ignite or something to compensate. It may be weak but it's the least swingy NK and also the one with the lowest chance of causing kingmaker situations.
4. Move Pest into NK.
5. Add my Hunter idea. Also a relatively unswingy NK since it can reliably kill 2 players simultaneously and can't randomly kill the wrong alignment in 99% of cases.
6. Fix the damn Elo system so that NKs get the benefits they deserve and inflation isn't such a major issue. If players know that they get +30/-1 as an NK they won't be so likely to leave anymore.
With those changes I think NK would be a viable alignment for Ranked. Even without those changes it's fine. Sure some roles can swing the outcome of the game disproportionately, but we shouldn't balance around bad play. NKs (and NBs) add an element of alliance building that doesn't exist in straight Town vs. Mafia ToS. Sure a 10v5 would likely be reasonably balanced list and far more fun than S5, but it would remove an element of the game that is part of the reason why ToS became as popular as it did.
Actually really liked old Arsonist (it should be buffed a bit, because it's KPN is pretty low compared to sk).
It acted as a sort of countdown nk, where it wouldn't really get anyone out early game and doesn't really directly hurt both factions constantly, while SK/WWg can mess up a lot of wins for scum and town can be pretty dependent on them. SK at least can pick right and make choices, while ww just gets random kills normally on high priority targets which end up killing mafia, I'd love PB
I think I wouldn't mind if the NK's were "SK/Arso" + any new Nks, mostly your suggested changes are good, I like the idea that SK would auto win at a certain point I really dislike kingmaker scenarios in a ranked setting
I don't think I'm
Opposed to nk they make Town of salem more spicy, my biggest gripes with that is how bad the recent changes where, at least to Arsonist, WW has always been a dodo role, witch also needs to be immune to ignites once or douses once, due to once they find a arso the arso/witch are basically both screwing each other over, I just really hate the unpredictable nature of current Arsonist and werewolf, Arso needs changes, werewolf cannot really be changed without a massive overhaul.
I'll also say i pretty much dislike how theirs no counter play to dousing, It was changed to stop "jailor meta" but in general Jailor shouldn't be able to be protected while Jailing, instead of arso just ignoring BG/trapper, Also detection immunity should either be on
all nks or None, or have "situational" detection immunity.