Flavorable wrote:This has been asked and answered multiple times, so I'll keep it short:
This is not something that will be implemented, because it's too easily abused. People can use this to bar anyone from their game that they do not like, basically shadowbanning players that quite possibly have not broken any rules, but whom players simply don't like.
As for an honor system based on the amount of reports against someone: Also not a viable idea. The number of times someone gets reported means absolutely nothing. In fact, the two people with the highest amount of reports (over 300) are people that are not liked, but haven't actually broken the rules. Especially not more than some people with say only 10 reports.
Your best bet to get rid of problematic people is simply to report them. And if they keep doing it over and over on an evening, there is generally always a staff member on Discord whom you can forward the situation to so they can look into it.
Flavorable wrote:This has been asked and answered multiple times, so I'll keep it short:
This is not something that will be implemented, because it's too easily abused. People can use this to bar anyone from their game that they do not like, basically shadowbanning players that quite possibly have not broken any rules, but whom players simply don't like.
As for an honor system based on the amount of reports against someone: Also not a viable idea. The number of times someone gets reported means absolutely nothing. In fact, the two people with the highest amount of reports (over 300) are people that are not liked, but haven't actually broken the rules. Especially not more than some people with say only 10 reports.
Your best bet to get rid of problematic people is simply to report them. And if they keep doing it over and over on an evening, there is generally always a staff member on Discord whom you can forward the situation to so they can look into it.
People can use this to bar anyone from their game that they do not like, basically shadowbanning players that quite possibly have not broken any rules, but whom players simply don't like.
The number of times someone gets reported means absolutely nothing. In fact, the two people with the highest amount of reports (over 300) are people that are not liked, but haven't actually broken the rules.
there is generally always a staff member on Discord whom you can forward the situation to so they can look into it.
James2 wrote:The trial system has enough capacity to deal with gamethrowers. The problem isn't a lack of staff, it's that:
1. They are mainly concerned with policing "offensive" speech, and
2. The anti-gamethrowing rule has evolved from "don't lose on purpose" to "don't engage in the specific actions proscribed in the Trial Guide". The devs have tied their hands regarding anything that doesn't fit within their narrow guidelines. So players are now explicitly allowed to, among other things, purposefully get themselves lynched/executed by refusing to claim on the stand or in jail.
Regarding the paywall, it can be bypassed by watching ads on mobile. So far we haven't had a resurgence of bots, I don't know if that's for technical reasons or if the game just isn't an attractive target anymore.
DecDecAttack wrote:Flavorable wrote:This has been asked and answered multiple times, so I'll keep it short:
This is not something that will be implemented, because it's too easily abused. People can use this to bar anyone from their game that they do not like, basically shadowbanning players that quite possibly have not broken any rules, but whom players simply don't like.
As for an honor system based on the amount of reports against someone: Also not a viable idea. The number of times someone gets reported means absolutely nothing. In fact, the two people with the highest amount of reports (over 300) are people that are not liked, but haven't actually broken the rules. Especially not more than some people with say only 10 reports.
Your best bet to get rid of problematic people is simply to report them. And if they keep doing it over and over on an evening, there is generally always a staff member on Discord whom you can forward the situation to so they can look into it.
Me seeing if the second one is possible: what if it shows the # of bans? Incase a ban is repealed you will know that that happened? Or it could also show know alta bans?
Boredfan1 wrote:Flavorable wrote:This has been asked and answered multiple times, so I'll keep it short:
This is not something that will be implemented, because it's too easily abused. People can use this to bar anyone from their game that they do not like, basically shadowbanning players that quite possibly have not broken any rules, but whom players simply don't like.
As for an honor system based on the amount of reports against someone: Also not a viable idea. The number of times someone gets reported means absolutely nothing. In fact, the two people with the highest amount of reports (over 300) are people that are not liked, but haven't actually broken the rules. Especially not more than some people with say only 10 reports.
Your best bet to get rid of problematic people is simply to report them. And if they keep doing it over and over on an evening, there is generally always a staff member on Discord whom you can forward the situation to so they can look into it.
Or you could tie it to the trial system so abusing it is literally a punishable offense.
Flavorable wrote:The Trial System does not have enough capacity with gamethrowers. o_O
Just to give a bit of clarity: There's currently 8364 total reports in the queue, over 9 categories. 7511 of those reports are for gamethrowing, the other roughly 800 reports are divided over the other categories. And having run several events with jurors to specifically target the GT queue, experience has learned that generally, at least 80-95% of GT reports we've handled per month are invalid. With the large majority not even remotely being guilty (i.e. A mafia member/jester/exe making town believe they're town and then voting against town and getting reported for it), and only a small number being actually borderline. And even with these Events, the queue still doesn't go down more than it goes up, despite this Event making it so a report does not need a total of 9 votes to get guiltied, but only 1 before it gets sent to Judges/Mods. In the current situation, we'd need 9 votes per report, which means we'd need a total of 67599 votes on the entire queue at this specific moment in time.
Now to put that number of votes into perspective: In the past month, we've had 84 people vote on reports. 60 of them votes on less than 100 reports over 30 days time. 16 of them voted on more than 100, but less than 500, 7 of them voted on more than 1000. So yes, we're definitely under capacity. Now let's say a person is quite a quick reader and takes 30 seconds to load the report, read the report, duplicate where necessary and vote on the report. It would take 1 person 225,330 seconds (Roughly 62.6 hours) to get through the entire queue. And that is if there's no new reports filed whatsoever when said person is doing the queue.
As for the refusing to claim: That always has been, and to this day still is absolutely guilty, so players are definitely not allowed to refuse to claim on the stand or in jail.
Gamethrowing
4. While on stand or in jail, making it clear there is intent not to defend oneself. This does not include:
a. Simply not defending oneself.
b. Not saying anything.
c. Not claiming a role.
d. Not posting a will.
James2 wrote:Flavorable wrote:The Trial System does not have enough capacity with gamethrowers. o_O
Just to give a bit of clarity: There's currently 8364 total reports in the queue, over 9 categories. 7511 of those reports are for gamethrowing, the other roughly 800 reports are divided over the other categories. And having run several events with jurors to specifically target the GT queue, experience has learned that generally, at least 80-95% of GT reports we've handled per month are invalid. With the large majority not even remotely being guilty (i.e. A mafia member/jester/exe making town believe they're town and then voting against town and getting reported for it), and only a small number being actually borderline. And even with these Events, the queue still doesn't go down more than it goes up, despite this Event making it so a report does not need a total of 9 votes to get guiltied, but only 1 before it gets sent to Judges/Mods. In the current situation, we'd need 9 votes per report, which means we'd need a total of 67599 votes on the entire queue at this specific moment in time.
Now to put that number of votes into perspective: In the past month, we've had 84 people vote on reports. 60 of them votes on less than 100 reports over 30 days time. 16 of them voted on more than 100, but less than 500, 7 of them voted on more than 1000. So yes, we're definitely under capacity. Now let's say a person is quite a quick reader and takes 30 seconds to load the report, read the report, duplicate where necessary and vote on the report. It would take 1 person 225,330 seconds (Roughly 62.6 hours) to get through the entire queue. And that is if there's no new reports filed whatsoever when said person is doing the queue.
~80% of guilty reports are for things other than gamethrowing. That can't help with clearing throwing reports.As for the refusing to claim: That always has been, and to this day still is absolutely guilty, so players are definitely not allowed to refuse to claim on the stand or in jail.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/14cR ... G_TJE/editGamethrowing
4. While on stand or in jail, making it clear there is intent not to defend oneself. This does not include:
a. Simply not defending oneself.
b. Not saying anything.
c. Not claiming a role.
d. Not posting a will.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=79008#p2602136
syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Ok the new rule is fking stupid
Flavorable wrote:Those last two screenshots are extremely out of context, and outdated.
Those two comments from Shape were about people getting guiltied for simply not claiming a role. And it is not mandatory to claim a role. And as an addition, these screenshots are from OCTOBER 1ST 2018. This is even before the move to pay-2-play, and since this moment, the rule has moved from people getting guiltied for NOT CLAIMING A ROLE, not people getting guiltied for REFUSING TO DEFEND THEMSELVES.
So yes, a person that is in jail or on the stand and is simply saying "I refuse to claim" will still get guiltied. However, if they say "I refuse to claim, but I'm town", they're defending themselves.
Just to put it in a bit more context, because it's important to not pull things out of context just so they fit your argument.
Flavorable wrote:James2 wrote:The trial system has enough capacity to deal with gamethrowers. The problem isn't a lack of staff, it's that:
1. They are mainly concerned with policing "offensive" speech, and
2. The anti-gamethrowing rule has evolved from "don't lose on purpose" to "don't engage in the specific actions proscribed in the Trial Guide". The devs have tied their hands regarding anything that doesn't fit within their narrow guidelines. So players are now explicitly allowed to, among other things, purposefully get themselves lynched/executed by refusing to claim on the stand or in jail.
Regarding the paywall, it can be bypassed by watching ads on mobile. So far we haven't had a resurgence of bots, I don't know if that's for technical reasons or if the game just isn't an attractive target anymore.
The Trial System does not have enough capacity with gamethrowers. o_O
Just to give a bit of clarity: There's currently 8364 total reports in the queue, over 9 categories. 7511 of those reports are for gamethrowing, the other roughly 800 reports are divided over the other categories. And having run several events with jurors to specifically target the GT queue, experience has learned that generally, at least 80-95% of GT reports we've handled per month are invalid. With the large majority not even remotely being guilty (i.e. A mafia member/jester/exe making town believe they're town and then voting against town and getting reported for it), and only a small number being actually borderline. And even with these Events, the queue still doesn't go down more than it goes up, despite this Event making it so a report does not need a total of 9 votes to get guiltied, but only 1 before it gets sent to Judges/Mods. In the current situation, we'd need 9 votes per report, which means we'd need a total of 67599 votes on the entire queue at this specific moment in time.
Now to put that number of votes into perspective: In the past month, we've had 84 people vote on reports. 60 of them votes on less than 100 reports over 30 days time. 16 of them voted on more than 100, but less than 500, 7 of them voted on more than 1000. So yes, we're definitely under capacity. Now let's say a person is quite a quick reader and takes 30 seconds to load the report, read the report, duplicate where necessary and vote on the report. It would take 1 person 225,330 seconds (Roughly 62.6 hours) to get through the entire queue. And that is if there's no new reports filed whatsoever when said person is doing the queue.
As for the refusing to claim: That always has been, and to this day still is absolutely guilty, so players are definitely not allowed to refuse to claim on the stand or in jail.
Flavorable wrote:Just to give a bit of clarity: There's currently 8364 total reports in the queue, over 9 categories. 7511 of those reports are for gamethrowing, the other roughly 800 reports are divided over the other categories. And having run several events with jurors to specifically target the GT queue, experience has learned that generally, at least 80-95% of GT reports we've handled per month are invalid. With the large majority not even remotely being guilty (i.e. A mafia member/jester/exe making town believe they're town and then voting against town and getting reported for it), and only a small number being actually borderline. And even with these Events, the queue still doesn't go down more than it goes up, despite this Event making it so a report does not need a total of 9 votes to get guiltied, but only 1 before it gets sent to Judges/Mods. In the current situation, we'd need 9 votes per report, which means we'd need a total of 67599 votes on the entire queue at this specific moment in time.
Now to put that number of votes into perspective: In the past month, we've had 84 people vote on reports. 60 of them votes on less than 100 reports over 30 days time. 16 of them voted on more than 100, but less than 500, 7 of them voted on more than 1000. So yes, we're definitely under capacity. Now let's say a person is quite a quick reader and takes 30 seconds to load the report, read the report, duplicate where necessary and vote on the report. It would take 1 person 225,330 seconds (Roughly 62.6 hours) to get through the entire queue. And that is if there's no new reports filed whatsoever when said person is doing the queue.
Brilliand wrote:Flavorable wrote:Just to give a bit of clarity: There's currently 8364 total reports in the queue, over 9 categories. 7511 of those reports are for gamethrowing, the other roughly 800 reports are divided over the other categories. And having run several events with jurors to specifically target the GT queue, experience has learned that generally, at least 80-95% of GT reports we've handled per month are invalid. With the large majority not even remotely being guilty (i.e. A mafia member/jester/exe making town believe they're town and then voting against town and getting reported for it), and only a small number being actually borderline. And even with these Events, the queue still doesn't go down more than it goes up, despite this Event making it so a report does not need a total of 9 votes to get guiltied, but only 1 before it gets sent to Judges/Mods. In the current situation, we'd need 9 votes per report, which means we'd need a total of 67599 votes on the entire queue at this specific moment in time.
Now to put that number of votes into perspective: In the past month, we've had 84 people vote on reports. 60 of them votes on less than 100 reports over 30 days time. 16 of them voted on more than 100, but less than 500, 7 of them voted on more than 1000. So yes, we're definitely under capacity. Now let's say a person is quite a quick reader and takes 30 seconds to load the report, read the report, duplicate where necessary and vote on the report. It would take 1 person 225,330 seconds (Roughly 62.6 hours) to get through the entire queue. And that is if there's no new reports filed whatsoever when said person is doing the queue.
I wonder if it would help to assume that anyone who won was not gamethrowing (and code the trial system to quietly discard those reports)? While it isn't a 100% reliable rule, it sounds like most of the invalid reports are cases where the "gamethrower" went on to win as a result of their "gamethrowing", while the worst cases of genuine gamethrowing would be those times when someone tried to lose and succeeded in doing so.
Brilliand wrote:Flavorable wrote:Just to give a bit of clarity: There's currently 8364 total reports in the queue, over 9 categories. 7511 of those reports are for gamethrowing, the other roughly 800 reports are divided over the other categories. And having run several events with jurors to specifically target the GT queue, experience has learned that generally, at least 80-95% of GT reports we've handled per month are invalid. With the large majority not even remotely being guilty (i.e. A mafia member/jester/exe making town believe they're town and then voting against town and getting reported for it), and only a small number being actually borderline. And even with these Events, the queue still doesn't go down more than it goes up, despite this Event making it so a report does not need a total of 9 votes to get guiltied, but only 1 before it gets sent to Judges/Mods. In the current situation, we'd need 9 votes per report, which means we'd need a total of 67599 votes on the entire queue at this specific moment in time.
Now to put that number of votes into perspective: In the past month, we've had 84 people vote on reports. 60 of them votes on less than 100 reports over 30 days time. 16 of them voted on more than 100, but less than 500, 7 of them voted on more than 1000. So yes, we're definitely under capacity. Now let's say a person is quite a quick reader and takes 30 seconds to load the report, read the report, duplicate where necessary and vote on the report. It would take 1 person 225,330 seconds (Roughly 62.6 hours) to get through the entire queue. And that is if there's no new reports filed whatsoever when said person is doing the queue.
I wonder if it would help to assume that anyone who won was not gamethrowing (and code the trial system to quietly discard those reports)? While it isn't a 100% reliable rule, it sounds like most of the invalid reports are cases where the "gamethrower" went on to win as a result of their "gamethrowing", while the worst cases of genuine gamethrowing would be those times when someone tried to lose and succeeded in doing so.
syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Once I saw mayor lynching 2 confirmed townies (and admited to like lynching confirmed town), town still won that game cause we had 10 townies and only 3 evils
Its not THAT rare to see a townie claiming jailor d1 in rank and trying to get real jailor lynched, even then town still wins some of those games
Winning≠not gamethrowing
Brilliand wrote:syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Once I saw mayor lynching 2 confirmed townies (and admited to like lynching confirmed town), town still won that game cause we had 10 townies and only 3 evils
Its not THAT rare to see a townie claiming jailor d1 in rank and trying to get real jailor lynched, even then town still wins some of those games
Winning≠not gamethrowing
Yeah, but given that the gamethrowing queue is so overfull, it doesn't seem worth it to try to preserve every possible instance of gamethrowing for review.
The persistent gamethrowers will probably lose a game where they gamethrew soon enough. After all, if it didn't increase the chances of losing, then it wouldn't be gamethrowing. And it only takes one correctly guiltied report to get punished.
Flavorable wrote:Brilliand wrote:syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Once I saw mayor lynching 2 confirmed townies (and admited to like lynching confirmed town), town still won that game cause we had 10 townies and only 3 evils
Its not THAT rare to see a townie claiming jailor d1 in rank and trying to get real jailor lynched, even then town still wins some of those games
Winning≠not gamethrowing
Yeah, but given that the gamethrowing queue is so overfull, it doesn't seem worth it to try to preserve every possible instance of gamethrowing for review.
The persistent gamethrowers will probably lose a game where they gamethrew soon enough. After all, if it didn't increase the chances of losing, then it wouldn't be gamethrowing. And it only takes one correctly guiltied report to get punished.
Making a handful of reports that are actually valid auto-close won't solve anything. The problem is the thousands of actually invalid reports.
Oh, and edit: Winning does not negate gamethrowing. Image all Kyleongfuel accounts not getting banned when their mafia manages to win the game.
James2 wrote:Flavorable wrote:Brilliand wrote:syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Once I saw mayor lynching 2 confirmed townies (and admited to like lynching confirmed town), town still won that game cause we had 10 townies and only 3 evils
Its not THAT rare to see a townie claiming jailor d1 in rank and trying to get real jailor lynched, even then town still wins some of those games
Winning≠not gamethrowing
Yeah, but given that the gamethrowing queue is so overfull, it doesn't seem worth it to try to preserve every possible instance of gamethrowing for review.
The persistent gamethrowers will probably lose a game where they gamethrew soon enough. After all, if it didn't increase the chances of losing, then it wouldn't be gamethrowing. And it only takes one correctly guiltied report to get punished.
Making a handful of reports that are actually valid auto-close won't solve anything. The problem is the thousands of actually invalid reports.
Oh, and edit: Winning does not negate gamethrowing. Image all Kyleongfuel accounts not getting banned when their mafia manages to win the game.
Which category of gamethrowing reports are more likely to be valid: those where the reported player wins or those where the reported player loses?
Flavorable wrote:This is a great example of a spy getting lynched D2 and wanting to report every townie for gamethrowing. Now in this case, since the user was alone in thinking this, no reports got filed, but generally if a person plays with a friend, or a person has convinced someone else that this would magically be gamethrowing, that'd be another batch of invalid reports.
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