Ranked Rolelists

[Soulshade55r]

Fired up old AF account to come mention that the last few games have had exe siding town. Maf lost every one without coming close to a victory. Classic ranked is currently: 10 townies, 4 mafia, 1 witch, where 1 of those townies CAN NEVER DIE TO ANYTHING *except* lynching and the Jailor. That townie? The executioner.
Worse still is the sheer toxicity it brings out in everyone in the game.

I mean i think exe shouldn't be in ranked or be reworked so it can't side with town. Biggest issue is that town is currently really overpowered. So that something like 5v10 (Which should be actually a bit scum sided) is really really town sided. Due to countless roles such as Jailor, Transporter, Spies ect. The mafia need more ways to counter obvious tp protection spam, like on the Jailor who outs d1.

[wozearly]

Fired up old AF account to come mention that the last few games have had exe siding town. Maf lost every one without coming close to a victory. Classic ranked is currently: 10 townies, 4 mafia, 1 witch, where 1 of those townies CAN NEVER DIE TO ANYTHING *except* lynching and the Jailor. That townie? The executioner.
Worse still is the sheer toxicity it brings out in everyone in the game.

I mean i think exe shouldn't be in ranked or be reworked so it can't side with town. Biggest issue is that town is currently really overpowered. So that something like 5v10 (Which should be actually a bit scum sided) is really really town sided. Due to countless roles such as Jailor, Transporter, Spies ect. The mafia need more ways to counter obvious tp protection spam, like on the Jailor who outs d1.

Exe is a 'schrodinger' role whose potential existence affects the trustworthiness of early TI claims.

In the absence of the possibility of an Executioner, pretty much any early TI claim can be trusted implicitly and acted on because the worst case scenario is that it's a Mafia play for a mislynch which, in itself, reveals the Mafia member faking TI. Town can almost always happily exchange a mislynch for a Mafia lynch and come out on top, which would even further discourage Mafia from early fake TI claims.

The problem is that through a combination of independently sensible reasons, Exe is capable of being town-sided and still meeting its win conditions. In the new Ranked, the NE slot is pretty much required to be an outright Mafia ally for balancing in the absence of a credible neutral faction, but Exe doesn't fit this purpose as well as the Jester or Witch. One of the better suggestions to fix this was to bar the Exe from voting once it's win condition has been achieved.

[syjfwbaobfwl]

Exe either needs to be reworked so that it can no longer win with town or just moved out of rank, same with jester

[Brilliand]

Town can almost always happily exchange a mislynch for a Mafia lynch and come out on top, which would even further discourage Mafia from early fake TI claims.

And what's to stop Town from happily giving the exe his win, killing the executioner, and coming out on top - even assuming we somehow made it impossible for the Town to get the better outcome where the exe sides with them?

The fact that what Exe does isn't what a fifth mafia member would do indicates that what Exe does isn't something that helps the Mafia very much.

[Soulshade55r]

Fired up old AF account to come mention that the last few games have had exe siding town. Maf lost every one without coming close to a victory. Classic ranked is currently: 10 townies, 4 mafia, 1 witch, where 1 of those townies CAN NEVER DIE TO ANYTHING *except* lynching and the Jailor. That townie? The executioner.
Worse still is the sheer toxicity it brings out in everyone in the game.

I mean i think exe shouldn't be in ranked or be reworked so it can't side with town. Biggest issue is that town is currently really overpowered. So that something like 5v10 (Which should be actually a bit scum sided) is really really town sided. Due to countless roles such as Jailor, Transporter, Spies ect. The mafia need more ways to counter obvious tp protection spam, like on the Jailor who outs d1.

Exe is a 'schrodinger' role whose potential existence affects the trustworthiness of early TI claims.

In the absence of the possibility of an Executioner, pretty much any early TI claim can be trusted implicitly and acted on because the worst case scenario is that it's a Mafia play for a mislynch which, in itself, reveals the Mafia member faking TI. Town can almost always happily exchange a mislynch for a Mafia lynch and come out on top, which would even further discourage Mafia from early fake TI claims.

The problem is that through a combination of independently sensible reasons, Exe is capable of being town-sided and still meeting its win conditions. In the new Ranked, the NE slot is pretty much required to be an outright Mafia ally for balancing in the absence of a credible neutral faction, but Exe doesn't fit this purpose as well as the Jester or Witch. One of the better suggestions to fix this was to bar the Exe from voting once it's win condition has been achieved.

I Made a exe/jester role ideas that are more towards the "Neutral evil" status. Which would possibly be a fix Also Jester is the worst offender Imo, as town doesn't care it's a easy Jailor Inno rest guilty meta. No one fears it enough to be a problem.

Spoiler:

Role Name: Executioner

Role Alignment: Neutral Evil

Attributes:
-If attack at night by a evil, you will survive but lose your immunity.

Abilities:
-During the night You may select a target to frame as another role. (Like how forger selects)
-Targeting someone will mark them as your target for the day.
-If your target is lynched they will show up as that role you framed them as.

Goal: Town doesn't win and that one of your targets get lynched.



Role Name: Jester

Role Alignment:Neutral Evil


Attributes:
-If attack at night by a evil, you will survive but lose your immunity.
-If you are lynched all town members who voted guilty or abstained will not be able to make actions tonight. (Super roleblock including escorts/jailors), only applies to the Town faction.

Abilities:
-Target someone, if they vote guilty or abstain on voting on you the next day they will be haunted and dealt a unstoppable attack if they were a member of town.

Goal: Town doesn't win and You get lynched.

[James2]

Town can almost always happily exchange a mislynch for a Mafia lynch and come out on top, which would even further discourage Mafia from early fake TI claims.

And what's to stop Town from happily giving the exe his win, killing the executioner, and coming out on top - even assuming we somehow made it impossible for the Town to get the better outcome where the exe sides with them?

The fact that what Exe does isn't what a fifth mafia member would do indicates that what Exe does isn't something that helps the Mafia very much.

Exe doesn't do what a fifth mafia member was, but neither does it do what a tenth townie would. Its existence is better for each side than having an extra member of the opposing faction, which is proper for a neutral role.

If overt false accusations become sufficiently common, lynching accusers first can become an optimal play for town, and there have been times (in RP anyway) where lynching accusers first was the meta, at least for certain types of accusations (e.g. d2 sheriffs). If Exe is regarded as evil simpliciter this will lead (and at times has led) to oscillation of the meta (more overt false accusations->more accusers lynched first->less overt false accusations->less accusers lynched first->more overt false accusations). The possibility of Town giving the win to cooperative Exes disrupts this, but aside from that I don't think there's a problem.

[alex1234321]

Town can almost always happily exchange a mislynch for a Mafia lynch and come out on top, which would even further discourage Mafia from early fake TI claims.

And what's to stop Town from happily giving the exe his win, killing the executioner, and coming out on top - even assuming we somehow made it impossible for the Town to get the better outcome where the exe sides with them?

The fact that what Exe does isn't what a fifth mafia member would do indicates that what Exe does isn't something that helps the Mafia very much.

Exe doesn't do what a fifth mafia member was, but neither does it do what a tenth townie would. Its existence is better for each side than having an extra member of the opposing faction, which is proper for a neutral role.

If overt false accusations become sufficiently common, lynching accusers first can become an optimal play for town, and there have been times (in RP anyway) where lynching accusers first was the meta, at least for certain types of accusations (e.g. d2 sheriffs). If Exe is regarded as evil simpliciter this will lead (and at times has led) to oscillation of the meta (more overt false accusations->more accusers lynched first->less overt false accusations->less accusers lynched first->more overt false accusations). The possibility of Town giving the win to cooperative Exes disrupts this, but aside from that I don't think there's a problem.

The biggest problem with Exe is that it's a kingmaker. I like the idea of having a role that benefits from lynching Townies even if it dies in the process. But it should be strictly evil since otherwise you get situations where it can choose the winner at will.

The other problem is that it has its target picked randomly, which means that its chances of winning can change drastically depending on whether its target is a Sheriff or a Veteran or whether they're skilled versus dumb for that matter.