Exe/Pirate Rework

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Exe/Pirate Rework

Postby Cookazoo2 » Mon May 10, 2021 10:57 am

Now "exit the town" once they win (suicide).

Pirate exits as soon as it plunders twice, but on a later priority than its plunder so that it wins first.

Executioner exits the night after its target is hung so that it wins first.

Both of these roles can win and stay alive before the game ends. That means they are wild-card votes that cannot be punished for most things as they have already won — and a potential swing factor. To eliminate said swing, if these roles leave the town before their votes matter, this reduces potentially unfair game outcomes on both sides, and gives Town a new reason to help Executioner:

9 Town, 4 Mafia, 1 Witch, 1 Exe.

1 town dies N1 — 8 Town, 4 Mafia, 1 Witch, 1 Exe.

If you hang the Exe's target, that makes it 7 Town, 4 Mafia, 1 Witch, 1 Exe. The Exe dies the next night, and another Townie might die.

6 Town, 4 Mafia, 1 Witch.

Godfather cannot claim Exe now and so any immune claims can be executed immediately. Plus, this confirms a nonessential slot as Town and denies a potential Mafia-sided vote.
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Re: Exe/Pirate Rework

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Mon May 10, 2021 11:38 am

It makes the role super boring, what you need to do its to either move it out from ranked or make it lose its defense
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Re: Exe/Pirate Rework

Postby Joacgroso » Mon May 10, 2021 12:11 pm

I don't know why you are implying that giving town a reason to help exes is a good thing. Exes are meant to be a small threat to town, but with this rework they could always ask for help, since 1 for 1 always favor the town.

Pirates shouldn't be balanced because they are a neutral chaos role and they are not meant to be balanced (as long as they are completely luck-based, there's no point in trying to make them fair). That's what I would like to say, but they also appear in most pseudo-balanced rolelists, so I guess maybe they should be balanced.

I don't like the idea of exes dying after winning, since it would make the role boring and not rewarding. I know kingmakers are bad, but we shouldn't ruin a role just because of that, in my opinion.
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I still hope one day the game will have private lobbies. They would really help.
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Re: Exe/Pirate Rework

Postby PKFlash » Mon May 10, 2021 2:00 pm

Isn't there an achievement for successfully plundering 5 times as a Pirate?

Being able to mess around after winning is one of the most fun things about those roles imo, and forcing them to exit the Town would also make them a minor nuisance at most.
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Re: Exe/Pirate Rework

Postby Joacgroso » Mon May 10, 2021 2:28 pm

To be fair, I don't think we should keep a role the same just because of an achievement.
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.

I still hope one day the game will have private lobbies. They would really help.
Also, please nerf vampire hunters.
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Re: Exe/Pirate Rework

Postby SilverCruz » Mon May 10, 2021 4:34 pm

Indeed, the game has set the precedent that achievements are not a valid reason to keep roles the same. There used to be an Executioner achievement for lynching your target twice. It was a terrible achivement for relying on a Retributionist to exist and resurrect your target in spite of the meta being "As long as the Almighty Wesley Jailor does not quit, only resurrect the Almighty Wesley Jailor", then for the Mafia to leave your target alone and still gain majority.

Obviously, this achievement was binned when the Retributionist was remade, and good riddance to it.
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Re: Exe/Pirate Rework

Postby kyuss420 » Tue May 11, 2021 2:13 am

no support from me, half the fun of the roles is leading town astray when youve already won, or causing them to mislynch you at a crucial moment, costing them the win. Nothing at all wrong with that.... I mean thats what Im going to do anyway, whether ive already won or not, so if town are too dumb to get rid of me early, or too dumb realise im lowest priority lynch, then they get what they deserve... theres nothing stopping vigi from taking out a pirate....

boo hoo at ''unfair'' outcomes. You make it seem like losing is unfair and everyone should get a win point just for making it past the lobby. The variety of ways the roles can be played is what makes the nuetral alignment interesting.

Maybe we should get rid of escort, because its ''unfair'' when the faction killer gets RBed at a crucial time and costs the game. Maybe we should get rid of Mayor, cos its ''unfair'' when you finally achieve equal majority and a mayor reveals to reduce majority again. Any role could be considered unfair....

SilverCruz wrote:Indeed, the game has set the precedent that achievements are not a valid reason to keep roles the same. There used to be an Executioner achievement for lynching your target twice. It was a terrible achivement for relying on a Retributionist to exist and resurrect your target in spite of the meta being "As long as the Almighty Wesley Jailor does not quit, only resurrect the Almighty Wesley Jailor", then for the Mafia to leave your target alone and still gain majority.

Obviously, this achievement was binned when the Retributionist was remade, and good riddance to it.


Except it was a quite easy achievement to get, as not every mode has a jailor and AA surely doesnt always have a majority town....Ive seen mayors hero reveal, just to end up lynched, too many times to count, I still lol every time.
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Re: Exe/Pirate Rework

Postby DiamondRanger8 » Fri May 14, 2021 1:28 am

Exe and pirate aren't supposed to be allies to Town at all though. Why do we need a rework for pirate and exe, when exe is supposed to be a neutral role that's evil sided, and Pirate is supposed to be a completely neutral role that can choose who they side with at any time?
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