Make Executioner and Jester give the same amount of elo

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Make Executioner and Jester give the same amount of elo

Postby Ezradekezra » Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:22 am

I've noticed that while Executioner gives around 6 elo per win, Jester gives around 18 elo per win. This incentivizes Executioners to throw by waiting for their target to die before winning as a Jester for triple elo.

I propose that to remedy this, the elo system should be tweaked so that Executioner and Jester give the same amount of elo per win in Classic Ranked games.
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Re: Make Executioner and Jester give the same amount of elo

Postby CapWarrior2 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:54 am

wow jester gives 18 elo per win? Yea defienntly make them the same, I would easily wait till my target dies to get triple the amount of elo.
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Re: Make Executioner and Jester give the same amount of elo

Postby Ezradekezra » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:06 am

I just got 15 elo from an Executioner win, but I don't know if that's an outlier because of how the game went or something

This change may not be as necessary as I thought it was, but 15 is still less than the consistent 18 that I get from Jester wins.
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Re: Make Executioner and Jester give the same amount of elo

Postby Soulshade55r » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:35 am

It's a elo bug that happens to exe turnt jester it's actually been around for a while
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Re: Make Executioner and Jester give the same amount of elo

Postby Brilliand » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:22 am

imo ELO changes should be based on your starting role, not on the role you transformed into.
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Re: Make Executioner and Jester give the same amount of elo

Postby CapWarrior2 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:31 am

Brilliand wrote:imo ELO changes should be based on your starting role, not on the role you transformed into.


This makes sense, let's say a Forger gets more elo then a Mafioso, Forger ends up turning into Mafioso and winning, but then they get less elo.
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Re: Make Executioner and Jester give the same amount of elo

Postby Kelisidina » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:11 pm

Ezradekezra wrote:I've noticed that while Executioner gives around 6 elo per win, Jester gives around 18 elo per win. This incentivizes Executioners to throw by waiting for their target to die before winning as a Jester for triple elo.

I propose that to remedy this, the elo system should be tweaked so that Executioner and Jester give the same amount of elo per win in Classic Ranked games.


I /support this.

In ranked, a bunch of my high-elo friends in masters just whisper to their fellow regs to kill their target night one --> if their target dies, the exe knows they're maf and the maf knows to help the jest. If their target does not die, the exe knows that they whispered to town and will tell the townie that they will side with town- they just need their target dead so they can win.

This results in exes deliberately innoing their target [on the basis that someone kills them in the night so they can get the +9] (+18 elo for jest wins in bronze, silver, gold, plat, and diamond, +9 elo for jest wins in masters).

What's annoying is that it's not reportable by any means, because the exe has the ability to side with whomever they please --> this type of rolesharing between friends is deemed okay.
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Re: Make Executioner and Jester give the same amount of elo

Postby Flavorable » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:18 pm

The baseline for every role is the same when it comes to elo.

The calculation for it is simply based on your (faction's) elo, the opposing faction's elo and the winrate of your faction.
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Re: Make Executioner and Jester give the same amount of elo

Postby Brilliand » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:54 pm

Flavorable wrote:The baseline for every role is the same when it comes to elo.

The calculation for it is simply based on your (faction's) elo, the opposing faction's elo and the winrate of your faction.


And Witch/Exe/Jester are all considered separate factions for this purpose, correct?
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Re: Make Executioner and Jester give the same amount of elo

Postby Flavorable » Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:06 pm

Brilliand wrote:
Flavorable wrote:The baseline for every role is the same when it comes to elo.

The calculation for it is simply based on your (faction's) elo, the opposing faction's elo and the winrate of your faction.


And Witch/Exe/Jester are all considered separate factions for this purpose, correct?


Yes. And both Exe and Jester have no opposing faction.

And witch's only opposing facion is town.
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Re: Make Executioner and Jester give the same amount of elo

Postby Ezradekezra » Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:09 pm

Now I'm confused about how I managed to get significantly different amounts of elo from different Executioner wins
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Re: Make Executioner and Jester give the same amount of elo

Postby cob709 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:58 pm

Flavorable wrote:The baseline for every role is the same when it comes to elo.

The calculation for it is simply based on your (faction's) elo, the opposing faction's elo and the winrate of your faction.

The winrate of the players in the faction, or the faction itself?
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Re: Make Executioner and Jester give the same amount of elo

Postby Kelisidina » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:34 am

Flavorable wrote:The baseline for every role is the same when it comes to elo.

The calculation for it is simply based on your (faction's) elo, the opposing faction's elo and the winrate of your faction.



I don't think that's what's being used for jester.

Everytime I've played as exe turned jest and win, I win at least 15 elo [before masters]. A common practice of mine is to check out my opponents' elo, winloss rate, etc. No matter how low their winrate/elo is, or I'm playing with Top 10 players, I always got 15+ before masters, and 9+ for masters.
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Re: Make Executioner and Jester give the same amount of elo

Postby Flavorable » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:23 am

Kelisidina wrote:
Flavorable wrote:The baseline for every role is the same when it comes to elo.

The calculation for it is simply based on your (faction's) elo, the opposing faction's elo and the winrate of your faction.



I don't think that's what's being used for jester.

Everytime I've played as exe turned jest and win, I win at least 15 elo [before masters]. A common practice of mine is to check out my opponents' elo, winloss rate, etc. No matter how low their winrate/elo is, or I'm playing with Top 10 players, I always got 15+ before masters, and 9+ for masters.


It's other players winrates that matter. It's the jester winrate.
And since jester has no opposing factions, the other players' elo also don't matter. So if your elo stays reasonably consistent, and the winrate of the role stays reasonably consistent, you will also get reasonably consistent elo from winning with said role.

And the reason it's more for a jester than for an Exe, I can only imagine it is because in Ranked, Jester doesn't spawn, only Exe does, so Exe obviously has a higher winrate and thus a lower payout.
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Re: Make Executioner and Jester give the same amount of elo

Postby Brilliand » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:47 pm

Flavorable wrote:And the reason it's more for a jester than for an Exe, I can only imagine it is because in Ranked, Jester doesn't spawn, only Exe does, so Exe obviously has a higher winrate and thus a lower payout.


Jester being less likely to exist in the game wouldn't matter; that reduces both the number of wins and the number of losses, and in theory it should cancel out.

The fact that Jester and Executioner always start the game as the same role ("Executioner with ability to become Jester") in the current Ranked rolelist is a good reason to merge them for ELO purposes, though.
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