Remove Witch from TT

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Remove Witch from TT

Postby Savagepeyton » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:59 pm

I know I have seen people suggest this elsewhere, but I am going to create a discussion for it. Please remove witch from TT! As the game mode is currently, witch, being an evil with killing capabilities provided that a TK is alive, needs to be killed before the Traitor countdown timer starts. However, in most cases, witch is unable to kill on a regular basis (either because they can’t find TK or they are deliberately being kept alive and blocked by jailor). The witch presence makes it so that town can start looking for TT before the timer begins without having to worry about being killed by evils. As a result, most people quit as witch when only TT is left to give evils a chance to win, as they are unable to win themselves at this point. In other words, witch being in TT basically encourages throwing, which is not healthy for the game environment!

It can’t really win in TT anyway. If you think about it, the only way for witch to win in TT is via mafia winning the regular way (by just killing all town members and tricking town with fake claims). However, a mafia win without relying on TT timer is almost nonexistent in TT mode (due to the large number of townies to begin with, and also because winning via TT timer is easier so most mafia will find ways to deliberately get themselves killed such as by making really bad claims). And not only does mafia have to win the regular way, but witch has to survive too (which is hard enough to do in regular modes). As a result, most people who get witch in TT consider the game to be a guaranteed loss.

Instead of witch, I think that jester would be a better neutral to include in TT. Jester would have lodes of fun in TT. In a mode where the slightest wrong thing said is guaranteed to get you lynched, the jester should have no problem getting the win most times. It would also be cool in TT because it would add to the already high amount of paranoia; potentially lynching the jester could mean losing retributionist or another confirmed town member, thus creating a penalty for randomly lynching for TT. Jester also wouldn’t need to be killed in order for the TT timer to start, thus creating the possibility that town will waste a much-needed day on killing the jester.

At any rate, whether jester is included or not, WITCH NEEDS TO GO!!! Witch is virtually impossible to win in TT and encourages throwing in order to help mafia win. Not only does it not contribute very many positive things to the game mode (as a witched vigilante shooting a townie often helps town in TT), it hurts the mafia’s chance of winning significantly. PLEASE REMOVE WITCH FROM TT!!!
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Re: Remove Witch from TT

Postby MewNyanFan700 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:39 pm

/support
Or at the very least let the timer start with them alive...
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Re: Remove Witch from TT

Postby MysticMismagius » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:43 pm

I think Witch's slot should be replaced with an RM
It's effectively a 5th Mafia, but just worse
Just make the 10v5 official and cut neutrals out of the picture
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Re: Remove Witch from TT

Postby Robbytherobot » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:19 am

Witch needs to be removed I cant tell you how many times town keeps witch alive to find tt using jailor, or how many times witch gets bussed by mafia early so tt has a chance of winning, its hard to coordinate and should be changed to something useless like forger.
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Re: Remove Witch from TT

Postby Soulshade55r » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:17 pm

RM for witch would make the game mode way better
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Re: Remove Witch from TT

Postby Pixies » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:32 pm

omg yes! I support this wholeheartedly!

I've always said to change witch to something like Exe or Jester. The jester can act as a TT to get lynched and let the Exe have a TT as a target.

Winning as the witch is really hard. Maf either finds you, and you get found out by spies or invests, or you get found out by the LO.
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Re: Remove Witch from TT

Postby FrenchyTheSphee » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:37 pm

/easysupport
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Re: Remove Witch from TT

Postby Brilliand » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:02 pm

Pixies wrote:I've always said to change witch to something like Exe or Jester. The jester can act as a TT to get lynched and let the Exe have a TT as a target.


The Jester would be a safe lynch during the TT countdown, since the Jester haunt would be just as likely to hit the TT as a lynch would.

The Exe would be a confirmed non-Traitor, and I doubt the Town would mind lynching his target when they're randoming "townies who might be Traitor" anyway.

Neither of those would help scum much at all.
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Re: Remove Witch from TT

Postby FrenchyTheSphee » Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:38 am

Brilliand wrote:
Pixies wrote:I've always said to change witch to something like Exe or Jester. The jester can act as a TT to get lynched and let the Exe have a TT as a target.


The Jester would be a safe lynch during the TT countdown, since the Jester haunt would be just as likely to hit the TT as a lynch would.

The Exe would be a confirmed non-Traitor, and I doubt the Town would mind lynching his target when they're randoming "townies who might be Traitor" anyway.

Neither of those would help scum much at all.



Jester does not help TT, Jester helps MAFIA and is indirectly buffed from TT.

Having Jester increases the chance that to make town mislynch and makes them have to care about their votes

Executioner is the better addition to TT more than Jester since having Exe will make people trust sheriffs/investigators/spies less which helps Mafia in the early game
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Re: Remove Witch from TT

Postby Brilliand » Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:12 pm

FrenchyTheSphee wrote:Executioner is the better addition to TT more than Jester since having Exe will make people trust sheriffs/investigators/spies less which helps Mafia in the early game


Executioner was in TT at the start, but was removed for some reason (in favor of another Town slot).

Unfortunately I have no idea where the discussion was held to make that decision.

However, I already explained (in my previous post) why the Executioner's presence would be actively harmful to the TT during the TT countdown.
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Re: Remove Witch from TT

Postby MysticMismagius » Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:42 pm

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