Neutral Gamethrowing

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Re: Neutral Gamethrowing

Postby Joacgroso » Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:13 pm

Duckferno wrote:False, the Jester can definitely influence the game when they die.

1. They will haunt someone(like you said).
2. They can speak with a medium or to another player that will be revived, if do so.

The only way they differ is that executioners influence more than a Jester. They have basic defense and can talk to people alive and vote.

The odds of a medium/ret existing after the jester was lynched are pretty low, and even then no one would listen to a jester, so they can't really influence the game after haunting in a strong enough way to force them to stay even after death. Exes are a different case because they can vote and their vote is needed to get people lynched, no matter what other roles are in the game, so they would really affect the outcome of the game.
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Re: Neutral Gamethrowing

Postby Duckferno » Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:02 pm

It doesn't matter, just like you explained. The Odds of a 1 v 1 v 1 with a town or Arsonist are slim, but it's still possible. And I already explained that executioner does more. But once both accomplish goals they got their win, they can leave; and apparently it's only GT if the executioner leaves?
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Re: Neutral Gamethrowing

Postby Joacgroso » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:28 pm

Because afaik jesters can leave after death and get their win, while any living player will lose if they leave. These are the rules, and until they are changed they will determine what is and what isn't gamethrowing.
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Re: Neutral Gamethrowing

Postby Duckferno » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:43 pm

TheWinner2015 wrote:
Rivelle wrote:Aside from neutral benigns, I think neutrals should be able to be reported for gamethrowing as well. Gamethrowing as a neutral should be defined as "going against your role's goal".


You can gamethrow as a survivor/Amnesiac.

For Amne, you can just choose not to become any roles (or out as an amne, and then choose something that would directly harm the majority)
For Survivor, you would just have to get yourself killed.


What if everyone is town and there are no town roles in the graveyard and they know you're Amnesiac. If you remember an evil role, you're basically dead.
For Survivor, claiming the first night gets you killed most of the time and no one would believe you because TI's will not waste time on you. Survivor can't get them selves killed besides getting lynched because they looked suspicious or because it's in their favor, etc.
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Re: Neutral Gamethrowing

Postby Joacgroso » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:02 pm

Just because there are some cases when an amne wouldn't be gamethrowing by not remembering it doesn't mean amnes can't gamethrow at all.
Survivors can gamethrow by saying "I'm survivor, I hate this role, please kill me".
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Re: Neutral Gamethrowing

Postby Duckferno » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:50 pm

.. I give up, Good luck.

But we're talking about leaving here, so leaving as survivor isn't the type of game throw you're talking about @who-ever-wrote-this
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Re: Neutral Gamethrowing

Postby MisterAnger » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:30 pm

Joacgroso wrote:but anyway it doesn't matter if people report it or not. Leaving is still against the rules.


It does matter if people report it or not. The rules are not really that great when taken with such rigidity.
If people don't report it, then the person is not being "toxic" enough to require banning, which should only be reserved for the most extreme cases.
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Re: Neutral Gamethrowing

Postby kyuss420 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:13 am

Rivelle wrote:I find this a problem because when an NK gamethrows (e.g. reveals role, suicides, helps town) it benefits the town, greatly


unfortunatley, NK revealing roles and helping town isnt gamethrowing... its stupid play and kind of a dick move on the NKs part, especially when theyre about to get lynched, but its not gamethrowing.

I mean, last ranked game I played, the consig was voted up and suddenly turned town, blurting out that i was exe (basically confirming the guy i was pushing on for 2 days, was actually town)... Idk if he expected town to inno him and lynch an exe instead, or what.....weird play, but my target died, and i talked town into lynching me when the last maf gave up and left while on the stand. Just so dumb to give town valuable information for nothing....

You can pick the pro evil players, from the noobs, by how much squealing they do when theyre about to be lynched.... Ive never seen anyone innoed for squealing, but like you said, it only benefits the players who put them in that position, and NK shouldnt be doing all of towns work for them. Its stupid, but its not gamethrowing.
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Re: Neutral Gamethrowing

Postby Brilliand » Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:36 pm

NK can sometimes win by helping town when town is losing. If town is in a bad situation, then often the NK's help won't be enough to save them, and the end result will be the NK winning after he takes down the Mafia with the Town's help.
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Re: Neutral Gamethrowing

Postby Duckferno » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:46 pm

But some people (Not me) don't understand if I reveal as NK to help town they consider it game throwing. If you're about to be lynched and you offer town your help, that's helping you with your goal by keeping you alive. I understand helping another faction is against the rules, but if it keeps you alive you can eventually back stab the faction you're helping.
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Re: Neutral Gamethrowing

Postby Villagerlover » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:54 pm

Duckferno wrote:But some people (Not me) don't understand if I reveal as NK to help town they consider it game throwing. If you're about to be lynched and you offer town your help, that's helping you with your goal by keeping you alive. I understand helping another faction is against the rules, but if it keeps you alive you can eventually back stab the faction you're helping.


This is true.
It is a bit contradicting for a serial killer to reveal himself day 2 and say he will help town hunt down the mafia. It technically can help the SK stay alive and it also qualifies as gamethrowing to a certain extent since you're kind of going against your own role by revealing your true identity.


But in all honesty, in a ranked environment, when is the Town ever going to really consider letting the NK live? Once the NK reveals themselves, the town would usually take the initiative to have the jailor execute them as soon as possible, that way, they can only focus on the Mafia. The whole "You can backstab them later on" is pretty much never gonna happen when everyone knows who you are, and will literally stop you dead in your tracks.

I've rarely see any games where the town decides to genuinely spare the NK and let them live to any sort of extent.
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Re: Neutral Gamethrowing

Postby kyuss420 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:10 am

Villagerlover wrote:
Duckferno wrote:But some people (Not me) don't understand if I reveal as NK to help town they consider it game throwing. If you're about to be lynched and you offer town your help, that's helping you with your goal by keeping you alive. I understand helping another faction is against the rules, but if it keeps you alive you can eventually back stab the faction you're helping.


This is true.
It is a bit contradicting for a serial killer to reveal himself day 2 and say he will help town hunt down the mafia. It technically can help the SK stay alive and it also qualifies as gamethrowing to a certain extent since you're kind of going against your own role by revealing your true identity.


But in all honesty, in a ranked environment, when is the Town ever going to really consider letting the NK live? Once the NK reveals themselves, the town would usually take the initiative to have the jailor execute them as soon as possible, that way, they can only focus on the Mafia. The whole "You can backstab them later on" is pretty much never gonna happen when everyone knows who you are, and will literally stop you dead in your tracks.

I've rarely see any games where the town decides to genuinely spare the NK and let them live to any sort of extent.


Yep.... even when it gives mafia the majority the next day.... or makes it 4v4 or 3v3 or 2v2 the next day, town will usually still lynch the NK and hand mafia the win
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Re: Neutral Gamethrowing

Postby Brilliand » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:27 am

I've won by outing myself as SK a couple times, but I didn't do it on the stand... I did it during the discussion phase, with an announcement that explained how close the Mafia was to winning, and that as SK I would be actively hunting the Mafia. There was very little suspicion directed at me before I outed myself.

Once you're on the stand in that situation, there's very little chance, since all the Mafia will guilty, and that will override whatever scattering of innos and abstains you manage to coax out of the town.
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