Neutral Gamethrowing

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Neutral Gamethrowing

Postby Rivelle » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:15 pm

Aside from vampires, people might say, "You can't gamethrow as a neutral".

I think gamethrowing with neutrals happen all the time- especially with neutral killings.

I find this a problem because when an NK gamethrows (e.g. reveals role, suicides, helps town) it benefits the town, greatly, because (at least in ranked) town only has one more target: mafia.
I notice in games where NK suicides, mafia loses more on average.

Aside from neutral benigns, I think neutrals should be able to be reported for gamethrowing as well. Gamethrowing as a neutral should be defined as "going against your role's goal".
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Re: Neutral Gamethrowing

Postby Brilliand » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:40 pm

That is what it's defined as.

At the same time, it seems wrong to me that the Mafia is the victim here. When the NK (an anti-mafia player) leaves, the Mafia suffers? That does more to say the game is poorly balanced than to say the NK shouldn't leave, imo.
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Re: Neutral Gamethrowing

Postby Flavorable » Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:50 am

You can already report neutrals for gamethrowing, if they do it with the intention of losing.
No matter what people tell you, it is still quite clearly mentioned in the rules.

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Re: Neutral Gamethrowing

Postby Joacgroso » Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:23 pm

Brilliand wrote:That is what it's defined as.

At the same time, it seems wrong to me that the Mafia is the victim here. When the NK (an anti-mafia player) leaves, the Mafia suffers? That does more to say the game is poorly balanced than to say the NK shouldn't leave, imo.

Actually, if the NK leaves early and town is competent, mafia will be at a serious disadvantage, since there will only be one dead townie each night, giving town enough time to figure them out. Unless a vigi kills another town member, maf won't stand a chance. That's why serial killers are considered to be the best NK role and why arsos are considered the worst.

Also, there are other instances when neutrals gamethrow and no one cares. For example, if a jester decides to lynch a player in a 1 vs 1 vs 1 scenario, he is gamethrowing unless he has already asked for a lynch. Many people seem to forget that.
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Re: Neutral Gamethrowing

Postby MisterAnger » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:47 pm

Ranked has a lot more room to talk when it comes to who should be reported, banned, and suspended.
I honestly think the system should ban more players from ranked than any other game mode. It is literally the only one that should be taken seriously.
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Re: Neutral Gamethrowing

Postby Brilliand » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:49 pm

Joacgroso wrote:Also, there are other instances when neutrals gamethrow and no one cares. For example, if a jester decides to lynch a player in a 1 vs 1 vs 1 scenario, he is gamethrowing unless he has already asked for a lynch. Many people seem to forget that.


I think most people don't understand how a jester is able to force the other players to lynch him in a 1v1v1 scenario, so they're off the hook for not using that strategy.
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Re: Neutral Gamethrowing

Postby Joacgroso » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:54 pm

I think RP should also be trated seriously. But besides, punishing players even more in one gamemode would imply that breaking the rules in other modes is better, while doing that is equally bad no matter where you play. However, I think banning people only from ranked could serve as a pusnishment.

Brilliand wrote:I think most people don't understand how a jester is able to force the other players to lynch him in a 1v1v1 scenario, so they're off the hook for not using that strategy.

They should be reported anyway, just like leavers. If they are new players, then they should be innoed for being ignorant. But as they get more experienced, they should stop doing it, and repeating the offense should be punishable. It would be nice if they could get just a simple tip as a warning, though, because kingmaking doesn't seem as obviously bad as other kinds of gamethrowing.
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Re: Neutral Gamethrowing

Postby GeniusWind » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:24 pm

I see where you're coming from. But supposedly, neutrals like NK can be reported for gamethrowing if they gamethrow.

The problem is that trials is really lenient towards gamethrowing. Most obvious gamethrows to players are considered as "Not - gamethrow, but just stupidity". So NKs usually leave most games during D1/N1? They won't get suspended because anyone who leaves (without explicitly showing their intent to leave), won't get suspended. Even though none of the intentional leavers will likely declare they're leaving.

Most passive gamethrowers will not be suspended.

It's not neutral gamethrowing that's ignored, it's just that the gamethrowing definition is really lenient.
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Re: Neutral Gamethrowing

Postby MisterAnger » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:13 am

Joacgroso wrote:But besides, punishing players even more in one gamemode would imply that breaking the rules in other modes is better, while doing that is equally bad no matter where you play.


I disagree. Depending on the rule, it is better in other modes, probably even not worth punishing.

Ranked and Ranked Practice feature the serious competitors whose wins and losses matter. Every other mode should be casual and relaxed and you should not have to worry about being banned (unless you gamethrow). It's just the way this game is set up.
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Re: Neutral Gamethrowing

Postby Joacgroso » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:14 pm

In my opinion cheating, harrassing others, gamethrowing and impersonating a BMG employee are bad no matter what gamemode you play. It's not like people should get special privileges for playing ranked.
Casual modes are just for people who don't care that much about balance, want to use scrolls,play with friends or don't like the pressure or the queue time for ranked. I don't think they should have to tolerate people breaking the rules either.
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