Sonicle wrote:Essentially when the godfather/Mafioso are dead a random mafia will be promoted to Mafioso.
I think it would be better if the mafia could "choose" who would become the new Mafioso during the next day via the sun icon. Ie this will prevent a powerful role like the consort being chosen over a framer/forger etc.
This would be a small buff for when the mafia are at their weakest; 2 players.
I've played too many games where the consort/janitor/bmer has been promoted at a crucial time and mafia have lost to what id call rng (who joined first etc)
Phone0Ix wrote:Sonicle wrote:Essentially when the godfather/Mafioso are dead a random mafia will be promoted to Mafioso.
I think it would be better if the mafia could "choose" who would become the new Mafioso during the next day via the sun icon. Ie this will prevent a powerful role like the consort being chosen over a framer/forger etc.
This would be a small buff for when the mafia are at their weakest; 2 players.
I've played too many games where the consort/janitor/bmer has been promoted at a crucial time and mafia have lost to what id call rng (who joined first etc)
Question, what if the mafia is too late with choosing who turns? And who would select the person, the dead Mafioso?
Phone0Ix wrote:Question, what if the mafia is too late with choosing who turns? And who would select the person, the dead Mafioso?
Yokujin wrote:but how can we prevent infighting?
Yokujin wrote:tbh every kid out there is like: "I WANNA KILL LEMME BE MAF!"
Sonicle wrote:Yokujin wrote:but how can we prevent infighting?
By making mafia actually fun to play.Yokujin wrote:tbh every kid out there is like: "I WANNA KILL LEMME BE MAF!"
Sure we're playing the same game lol?
In all serious though, I think keeping it a simple is the best thing to do, Mafia can talk n1 to decide who will take the mantle of mafioso and leave it up to them. They have that initial first night to plan and besides, most of the time it should be pretty obvious what role should be the one to become mafioso.
The reason why I don't suggest having it a roadmap is:
a- Games are flexible, what might have made sense one night ago, might be a very bad idea a round later
b- If the player in charge leaves etc, then you're stuck with their decision or without a decision being made, which will revert to random (removing the choice)
c- In custom games/All etc, there is no guarantee of a godfather to oversee those types of decisions
The thing is, you're right, this will inevitably lead to ingame fighting at some point but in most of the cases it should be fairly straight forward, there are roles that are weaker than others and in certain gamemodes almost useless. (I play alot of all random, which is why I came up with this idea, lost too many consorts when forgers/disguisers/framers were alive) You'll probably only ever see fighting in the lower tiers.
Unless coven has changed since the last time I played it, doesn't the Nemonomicron pass down randomly? It's this randomly element I'm looking to remove from the game (atleast, for the mafia atleast.
Yokujin wrote:a GF isnt needed to "oversee" who gets promoted next, just the highest ranking one; mafioso if gf doesnt exist
"road map" is like making a custom order instead randomized
if you see 2 disg and 1 consort: you decide to promote disg, disg then consort after you died, next mafioso may change the order
if no input is made the ranking will me used (weakest link first) and no necro passing isnt random:
(The order of transition is Coven Leader, Necromancer, Hex Master, Potion Master, Medusa, Poisoner [but as of now this order is unconfirmed]. The order does not follow by who joined the lobby first [also unconfirmed].) - wiki
MoustachioMario wrote:What if there are 2 disg who step forward to kill?
Sonicle wrote:Yokujin wrote:a GF isnt needed to "oversee" who gets promoted next, just the highest ranking one; mafioso if gf doesnt exist
"road map" is like making a custom order instead randomized
if you see 2 disg and 1 consort: you decide to promote disg, disg then consort after you died, next mafioso may change the order
if no input is made the ranking will me used (weakest link first) and no necro passing isnt random:
(The order of transition is Coven Leader, Necromancer, Hex Master, Potion Master, Medusa, Poisoner [but as of now this order is unconfirmed]. The order does not follow by who joined the lobby first [also unconfirmed].) - wiki
To be honest, I feel that's a little too much work and I'm really against the idea of having someone else dictate who will become the next mafioso.
I haven't played enough of the coven gamemode, I just read the wiki on it and back then it said it was randomly passed down, cheers.MoustachioMario wrote:What if there are 2 disg who step forward to kill?
Randomly pick between them. A second click to the icon can remove your name being put forward for the role, incase you realise too late it might be better for someone else to take it, you can withdraw your own vote.
shapesifter13 wrote:It might possibly be better to have an established priority system. There will be times even the priority is wrong due to any number of factors, but it may be a good starting point for further improvements.
Thoughts?
Yokujin wrote:shapesifter13 wrote:It might possibly be better to have an established priority system. There will be times even the priority is wrong due to any number of factors, but it may be a good starting point for further improvements.
Thoughts?
i have posted a list how the priority can be listed:
top priority:
Godfather
Mafioso
Janitor 0 charges
Forger 0 charges
Disguiser
grey area:
Consigilere
Framer
Consort
Blackmailer
Hypnotist
lowest priority:
Ambusher
Janitor 1+ charges
Forger 1+ charges
Phone0Ix wrote:Yokujin wrote:shapesifter13 wrote:It might possibly be better to have an established priority system. There will be times even the priority is wrong due to any number of factors, but it may be a good starting point for further improvements.
Thoughts?
i have posted a list how the priority can be listed:
top priority:
Godfather
Mafioso
Janitor 0 charges
Forger 0 charges
Disguiser
grey area:
Consigilere
Framer
Consort
Blackmailer
Hypnotist
lowest priority:
Ambusher
Janitor 1+ charges
Forger 1+ charges
I suggest consig in low and bm'r in top
Yokujin wrote:Phone0Ix wrote:Yokujin wrote:shapesifter13 wrote:It might possibly be better to have an established priority system. There will be times even the priority is wrong due to any number of factors, but it may be a good starting point for further improvements.
Thoughts?
i have posted a list how the priority can be listed:
top priority:
Godfather
Mafioso
Janitor 0 charges
Forger 0 charges
Disguiser
grey area:
Consigilere
Framer
Consort
Blackmailer
Hypnotist
lowest priority:
Ambusher
Janitor 1+ charges
Forger 1+ charges
I suggest consig in low and bm'r in top
shrugs
its the grey area
anything in here can be higher or lower on the prio depending on
-person
-play style
-opinions
-favorites
Phone0Ix wrote:Yokujin wrote:Phone0Ix wrote:Yokujin wrote:shapesifter13 wrote:It might possibly be better to have an established priority system. There will be times even the priority is wrong due to any number of factors, but it may be a good starting point for further improvements.
Thoughts?
i have posted a list how the priority can be listed:
top priority:
Godfather
Mafioso
Janitor 0 charges
Forger 0 charges
Disguiser
grey area:
Consigilere
Framer
Consort
Blackmailer
Hypnotist
lowest priority:
Ambusher
Janitor 1+ charges
Forger 1+ charges
I suggest consig in low and bm'r in top
shrugs
its the grey area
anything in here can be higher or lower on the prio depending on
-person
-play style
-opinions
-favorites
You can also say the same thing with Amb, Janitor and Forger with charges and Disguiser. Maybe there is a player that is either noob in the first 3 or pro in the last one. So that's a bad argument... Consigliere is a very good role and it possibly chosen over Blackmailer is rlly change. Blackmailer rarely does things these days.
Yokujin wrote:Phone0Ix wrote:Yokujin wrote:Phone0Ix wrote:Yokujin wrote:shapesifter13 wrote:It might possibly be better to have an established priority system. There will be times even the priority is wrong due to any number of factors, but it may be a good starting point for further improvements.
Thoughts?
i have posted a list how the priority can be listed:
top priority:
Godfather
Mafioso
Janitor 0 charges
Forger 0 charges
Disguiser
grey area:
Consigilere
Framer
Consort
Blackmailer
Hypnotist
lowest priority:
Ambusher
Janitor 1+ charges
Forger 1+ charges
I suggest consig in low and bm'r in top
shrugs
its the grey area
anything in here can be higher or lower on the prio depending on
-person
-play style
-opinions
-favorites
You can also say the same thing with Amb, Janitor and Forger with charges and Disguiser. Maybe there is a player that is either noob in the first 3 or pro in the last one. So that's a bad argument... Consigliere is a very good role and it possibly chosen over Blackmailer is rlly change. Blackmailer rarely does things these days.
nope
ambusher has lowest prio because he can kill and is always useful but usually never survives long enough to to be promoted
before janitor and forger should use up their charges and usefulness as their roles before promoting
I've played too many games where the consort/janitor/bmer has been promoted at a crucial time and mafia have lost to what id call rng (who joined first etc)
shapesifter13 wrote:Letting the players decide isn't necessarily the best either. If you don't want to be promoted, but are forced to be, then that isn't a good experience.
I think this is what people call "letting perfect be the enemy of good". No system for choosing the new Mafioso will be perfect, but certainly, letting the Mafia have some say in who gets converted is better than pure, merciless RNG.Yokujin wrote:random promotions backfireshapesifter13 wrote:Letting the players decide isn't necessarily the best either. If you don't want to be promoted, but are forced to be, then that isn't a good experience.
some want to select promotions themselves
some are against making the mechanics complicated
some arent happy with several priorities being suggested
we are just running around in circles
shapesifter13 wrote:Maybe it should be more like a volunteer system. You as the Framer can select to be the first promoted, otherwise it follows some priority. This way the players that want to be promoted, or players that feel their currently role is the least powerful in that situation can make the decision.
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