Possible data breach

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Re: Possible data breach

Postby UnSpotibleShadow » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:14 am

nu.nl wrote:De wachtwoorden zijn versleuteld volgens het MD5-algoritme, dat in de regel al jaren geldt als een zeer kwetsbare manier om wachtwoorden op te slaan.

Which roughly translates to:

The passwords are encrypted using the MD5-Algorithm, which has shown in the past to be a vulnerable way to store passwords

Achilles wrote:The BMG staff is just coming back from Christmas/New years vacation and we were informed that there may have been a breach of our database. I am currently in contact with Rackspace to figure out what happened and prevent it from happening again. You should update your Town of Salem passwords to be safe.


I surely agree you all should be free during the Christmas and New Years period, however why is there NOONE on call for security breaches? Sure nobody has to be in the office but there should atleast be someone available to be reached when a security breach like this happening and to fix it ASAP. BMG gave the hackers a couple of days to look around the database and steal close to 8m users their information.

Also, why is this not mailed to every registered user in the DB?! I had to find out thanks to the News site nu.nl that there was a breach, and yet no mail has been send from BMG! Shame!
Last edited by UnSpotibleShadow on Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Possible data breach

Postby williewest » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:32 am

Dash2 wrote:Also that last part implies you somehow didn't expect an attack just because it was the holidays so ??????

At this point, you're not really contributing anything. Yes this just happened, yes it was partly due to negligence, yes they should hire more people and probably seek help that isn't just in-house from their base of operations, and they definitely should consult a professional on this matter.
Seeing as this is all clear, known, stated, stamped, message sent and received, why are you still ranting like a broken record?

Be useful, or be quiet. Losing our heads satisfies the person(s) who did this.
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Re: Possible data breach

Postby lemonader666 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:34 am

Can you mega-sticky the thread?
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Re: Possible data breach

Postby williewest » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:40 am

Dash2 wrote:Fuck off. My info got leaked and the devs' choices made matters worse. I have a right to complain.

You also have the right to remain silent.
You've left behind actual helpful comments and resorted to stating how you "cannot get over" that this happened. I got bad news for ya: No one who will respond can help you with your mental constipation. We cannot use that information. Go put it in a Steam review or something.
This happened, that bit is over, and repeating that you cannot believe this happened and just going "you're negligent" doesn't revert that.
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Re: Possible data breach

Postby MafiaMenace » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:43 am

lol the shitshow that is this thread
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Re: Possible data breach

Postby Multiuniverse » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:44 am

So why don't you guys change to use a better hashing software?

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Re: Possible data breach

Postby yauaustin202 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:45 am

lemonader666 wrote:Can you mega-sticky the thread?

This. Please.

Also jord, just go change your login info man. Ranting here won't get the issues resolved any faster and won't make your account safer. You should be double checking all your passwords right now.
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Re: Possible data breach

Postby Technetium » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:46 am

Multiuniverse wrote:So why don't you guys change to use a better hashing software?


Whether or not there were reasons for not changing other than inertia, is this going to be one of the things that is changed with fixing the site security?
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Re: Possible data breach

Postby Moltac » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:47 am

Sad, but thanks for letting us know!
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Re: Possible data breach

Postby S0me0ne23 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:51 am

Multiuniverse wrote:So why don't you guys change to use a better hashing software?

Switching to a different hash algorithm retroactively is hard because BMG shouldn't and hopefully don't have access to the unencrypted passwords. Maybe new passwords.
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Re: Possible data breach

Postby Multiuniverse » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:53 am

Oh, can't they just get a different hash algorithm and require users to put new passwords/the same password and confirm this is their account via email?

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Re: Possible data breach

Postby Michael007800 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:54 am

Achilles wrote:
Technetium wrote:
Wikipedia article on MD5 hash wrote:The weaknesses of MD5 have been exploited in the field, most infamously by the Flame malware in 2012. The CMU Software Engineering Institute considers MD5 essentially "cryptographically broken and unsuitable for further use".


So...if the hashing isn't doing its job...why is that hashing method in use?


Because we’re terrible developers obviously

I'm sorry, but that is quite possibly the worst reply any dev could have possibly said at that moment.

I get it that the office may be stressed out over this issue and the community, aren't quite on your side, but the last thing anyone working for BMG should do is make a comment like that.
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Re: Possible data breach

Postby SnarkySneaks » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:56 am

The IP and Email part are still pretty concerning..
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Re: Possible data breach

Postby Technetium » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:59 am

This is probably a stupid idea, but what would prevent them from, say, using a new hash algorithm on top of the old one, re-hash all the existing passwords, and have login run the two hashes in sequence?

So currently it uses what we'll call Hash A.
When a password is input on login, it goes plaintext>Hash A and is checked against the stored password, already converted plaintext>Hash A before storing.

What I'm thinking, is, they convert all the stored passwords with another hash, we'll call it B, and have the login setup hash the passwords twice to match, so it goes plaintext>Hash A>Hash B.

Now, I figure there's very likely some reason why this wouldn't work, so if there is, could someone explain what that reason is?
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Re: Possible data breach

Postby EvanManManMan » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:10 am

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Re: Possible data breach

Postby Jackparrot » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:11 am

Thank you for letting us know BMG. However I feel that you should increase the security of the game in general, as we recently had the bot attacks, and now we have this. I’d really suggest upgrading security for the entire game.

Do you plan on, or are looking into who did this? I would really like to know who did this so that you can bring them to court. An attack this big is probably carried out by some very vengeful people, therefore I suspect that the botters could be behind this.
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Re: Possible data breach

Postby kristian818 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:22 am

Jackparrot wrote:]
Do you plan on, or are looking into who did this? I would really like to know who did this so that you can bring them to court. An attack this big is probably carried out by some very vengeful people, therefore I suspect that the botters could be behind this.


Not to ruin your dreams of an evil mastermind targeting bmg only for some absurd reason (like botters) but usually hackers scan for vulnerable websites with a large userbase through various search engines and programs. Then they compromise said servers to steal information (especially billing information or email+password). This login data can then be used on other sites that hold sensitive data and be used for either phishing (sextortion as an example) or directly stealing data from other sites with a valid login. It is a lot easier to target a small site rather than a large site and since people reuse passwords quite often then chances are the hackers can hit a jackpot by hacking a small site.

Also this attack is not that big if you believe what is written by dehashed. A rfi or lfi attack does not demand a lot to actually be successful with and it is quick to run away from since the server itself is doing the compromising by handling files to users it shouldn't give them to.
Last edited by kristian818 on Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Possible data breach

Postby Deagler » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:23 am

Just let BMG handle it in peace, No one knows if BMG even has control of the hashing of the passwords... It could easily have been a phpBB vulnerability since those have existed in the past... It's amazing how everyone in the ToS community is suddenly an experienced Software Engineer and is so ready to put BMG to shame.

Yeah it happened, Yeah it sucks. Yeah they could have told us sooner. But so what, they were on a 5 day holiday when most software companies take 10 days during this time of the year. Give them a break and stop crying about it. Crying about it doesn't help the situation or speed up any process.

Data breaches are a reality in this day and age. Equifax actively tried to cover up their data breach for almost 3 months. BMG was on holiday for 5 days and didn't see a couple emails, relax guys... It's no big conspiracy

For now, since everyone is so worried:
- Change your ToS password to something secure
- If you used the same password somewhere else, Change that password
- Setup 2FA on important accounts and your e-mail
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Re: Possible data breach

Postby Knuffeldraak » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:30 am

It's always best, regardless, to change your password with any kind of data breach. Always play the safe card.
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Re: Possible data breach

Postby azapf2277 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:31 am

So much crying going on here. Dont worry, nobody is gonna steal your bad credit.
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Re: Possible data breach

Postby S0me0ne23 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:33 am

Technetium wrote:This is probably a stupid idea, but what would prevent them from, say, using a new hash algorithm on top of the old one, re-hash all the existing passwords, and have login run the two hashes in sequence?

So currently it uses what we'll call Hash A.
When a password is input on login, it goes plaintext>Hash A and is checked against the stored password, already converted plaintext>Hash A before storing.

What I'm thinking, is, they convert all the stored passwords with another hash, we'll call it B, and have the login setup hash the passwords twice to match, so it goes plaintext>Hash A>Hash B.

Now, I figure there's very likely some reason why this wouldn't work, so if there is, could someone explain what that reason is?

tl;dr is that doing a hash twice doesn't necessarily make it more secure than doing a hash once.
It's more complicated than that, like it would sort of make brute forcing a password harder, but you'd still be relying on MD5.
Like the problem isn't necessarily that somebody gets your password. The problem could very well be that somebody gets a seemingly random string of characters that just so happens to hash to the same value as your password.

I would recommend waiting until BMG fixes the issue to change your password on this site, as your new password could still be compromised until BMG fixes the vulnerability.
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Re: Possible data breach

Postby kristian818 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:36 am

Deagler wrote:Just let BMG handle it in peace, No one knows if BMG even has control of the hashing of the passwords... It could easily have been a phpBB vulnerability since those have existed in the past... It's amazing how everyone in the ToS community is suddenly an experienced Software Engineer and is so ready to put BMG to shame.

Yeah it happened, Yeah it sucks. Yeah they could have told us sooner. But so what, they were on a 5 day holiday when most software companies take 10 days during this time of the year. Give them a break and stop crying about it. Crying about it doesn't help the situation or speed up any process.

Data breaches are a reality in this day and age. Equifax actively tried to cover up their data breach for almost 3 months. BMG was on holiday for 5 days and didn't see a couple emails, relax guys... It's no big conspiracy

For now, since everyone is so worried:
- Change your ToS password to something secure
- If you used the same password somewhere else, Change that password
- Setup 2FA on important accounts and your e-mail


Deagler, perhaps it would help if you read the article by dehashed (https://blog.dehashed.com/town-of-salem ... es-hacked/). They clearly state having called and received answer on December 28th. Their hashing algorithm is old and outdated, declared unsafe by various people in tech. All these things are not complicated and if you have the slightest interest in security as a hobby then you can understand it with a bit of reading. Mostly, people are unhappy with how the breach is handled, at least that is what I am, because breaches happen and sometimes in the weirdest ways. I bet if this really was a LFI or RFI attack then it was some weird form or file upload that accepted the attack. Easily forgetable and totally understandable, especially for a team of their size. However when they don't react to calls of a security site then it is a problem. No matter a vacation someone should always keep a little tab on logs and so on. Swap the duty around each day or something but just keep an eye out.
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Re: Possible data breach

Postby Deagler » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:00 am

kristian818 wrote:
Deagler wrote:Just let BMG handle it in peace, No one knows if BMG even has control of the hashing of the passwords... It could easily have been a phpBB vulnerability since those have existed in the past... It's amazing how everyone in the ToS community is suddenly an experienced Software Engineer and is so ready to put BMG to shame.

Yeah it happened, Yeah it sucks. Yeah they could have told us sooner. But so what, they were on a 5 day holiday when most software companies take 10 days during this time of the year. Give them a break and stop crying about it. Crying about it doesn't help the situation or speed up any process.

Data breaches are a reality in this day and age. Equifax actively tried to cover up their data breach for almost 3 months. BMG was on holiday for 5 days and didn't see a couple emails, relax guys... It's no big conspiracy

For now, since everyone is so worried:
- Change your ToS password to something secure
- If you used the same password somewhere else, Change that password
- Setup 2FA on important accounts and your e-mail


Deagler, perhaps it would help if you read the article by dehashed (https://blog.dehashed.com/town-of-salem ... es-hacked/). They clearly state having called and received answer on December 28th. Their hashing algorithm is old and outdated, declared unsafe by various people in tech. All these things are not complicated and if you have the slightest interest in security as a hobby then you can understand it with a bit of reading. Mostly, people are unhappy with how the breach is handled, at least that is what I am, because breaches happen and sometimes in the weirdest ways. I bet if this really was a LFI or RFI attack then it was some weird form or file upload that accepted the attack. Easily forgetable and totally understandable, especially for a team of their size. However when they don't react to calls of a security site then it is a problem. No matter a vacation someone should always keep a little tab on logs and so on. Swap the duty around each day or something but just keep an eye out.


I've read the article and I actually have a professional interest in security (I work as a solutions architect&dev) so I do fully understand the implications of the breach. I don't really know why there is a mix of phpass(phpBB's newer stronger hashing algorithm) and MD5(phpBB3 fallback) hashes, but regardless the hashes found would imply that BMG didn't make a conscious decision to choose a weaker unsafe hashing algorithm and that it's controlled by phpBB. I'm sure they are well aware of the downfalls of MD5 themselves, I don't know why everyone is doubting them. Also in regards to the LFI/RFI attack, we don't even know if it's BMG's direct fault. Could just as easily be a phpBB vulnerability or a third-party plugin...

Also, Yeah they made contact and that's why I said they could have told us sooner in my previous reply. But everyone is ignoring that the first thing they did do was reach out to Rackspace to try and ensure they could fix the problem ASAP. As far as I'm concerned, BMG is doing their jobs and I'm sure they've already learnt a couple lessons from this.

Everyone just has to chill and let them handle it, No one is really helping by crying about them...
Last edited by Deagler on Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Possible data breach

Postby ICECLIMBERS » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:01 am

TheGarner wrote:Anyway to delete an account? Haven’t used this for years and only remembered it due to the news of the breach.

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=38940

literally the second post in the faq subforum :roll:
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Re: Possible data breach

Postby ChubbyMooshroom9 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:08 am

https://haveibeenpwned.com/

if you want to check
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