Achilles wrote:DragonClaw66 wrote:Framer Overhaul
Having Framer swap the information investigator sees instead of just seeing the framer feedback is interesting. Doing a double selection night menu is problematic. I’m trying to do changes that don’t distract Client guys too much while they work on Unity. If this ends up being the chosen change it will be a while before this comes out.
Not a fan of removing existing roles like Disguiser.
Achilles wrote:I’m most heavily learning towards giving framer stealth visits (not seen by spy lookout tracker) as well as making the framed target visits show to spy. Edit: phone posting
Additional potential is to let framer “unframe” his teammates, but I don’t know what invest result we could show that wouldn’t still make that player have suspicion cast on them.
orangeandblack5 wrote:Achilles wrote:I’m most heavily learning towards giving framer stealth visits (not seen by spy lookout tracker) as well as making the framed target visits show to spy. Edit: phone posting
Additional potential is to let framer “unframe” his teammates, but I don’t know what invest result we could show that wouldn’t still make that player have suspicion cast on them.
I would be overjoyed if this were the route we took, although I don't know that Framer's visits need to be stealthy to the Tracker/Lookout so much as if the Tracker/Lookout see framed targets visiting the Mafia Killer's target
Unframing is nice but all in all I've heard some very sound arguments against it
I don't remember them exactly atm but if you start to consider it over the thing you first said I'll see if I can remember them
Parallax7 wrote:As for the change, I personally think the popular Frame + Focus ability is the way to go, however, I’d remove Framer as a whole, and implement a system in which Framing is an innate passive ability the entire mafia has, (one member of the mafia will have the framing ability, similar to the necro, and when they die it will be passed on. This could be done in tandem with their primary ability.) This way the ambiguity of a player being suspicious isn’t RNG dependent, and evildoers, specifically mafia have a much better protection against investigators, and the balance issue of a niche role like Framer is eliminated entirely.
Achilles wrote:orangeandblack5 wrote:Achilles wrote:I’m most heavily learning towards giving framer stealth visits (not seen by spy lookout tracker) as well as making the framed target visits show to spy. Edit: phone posting
Additional potential is to let framer “unframe” his teammates, but I don’t know what invest result we could show that wouldn’t still make that player have suspicion cast on them.
I would be overjoyed if this were the route we took, although I don't know that Framer's visits need to be stealthy to the Tracker/Lookout so much as if the Tracker/Lookout see framed targets visiting the Mafia Killer's target
Unframing is nice but all in all I've heard some very sound arguments against it
I don't remember them exactly atm but if you start to consider it over the thing you first said I'll see if I can remember them
I’m not a big fan of having an edge case just for the Spy. I think Framer should have stealth visits matching how other stealth roles work. The more edge case role interactions we have the more confusing the game gets
Magnasword2 wrote:I quite like the idea to buff framer. It has been quite an upsetting role to get in game. Although I have seen people work wonders with it. It's interesting to give town more reason to doubt sheriffs. I think this change may at least modify the way teamwork works in the game from now onward. I'm not saying it's a game breaking change but perhaps the poor sheriff should be next on the list to be looked at considering his new role as "Constantly doubted"
Achilles wrote:This is why I hate doing balance changes. Everytime it's an immediate hatred of any change, polls and rage wanting it reverted and I end up wasting a bunch of my time. You realize that this Framer change only puts it on par with dousing and hexing that are both permanent?
Post your suggested Framer changes that you think are better than this and I will read over and consider them.
greenrabbit7 wrote:Achilles wrote:This is why I hate doing balance changes. Everytime it's an immediate hatred of any change, polls and rage wanting it reverted and I end up wasting a bunch of my time. You realize that this Framer change only puts it on par with dousing and hexing that are both permanent?
Post your suggested Framer changes that you think are better than this and I will read over and consider them.
If you want to make a permanent frame, make it so frames do something else too. Maybe they nulify all night feedback for that person, or they allow the framer to see who that person visits at night permenantly too?
Achilles wrote:This is why I hate doing balance changes. Everytime it's an immediate hatred of any change, polls and rage wanting it reverted and I end up wasting a bunch of my time. You realize that this Framer change only puts it on par with dousing and hexing that are both permanent?
Post your suggested Framer changes that you think are better than this and I will read over and consider them.
RevengeoftheRaccoon wrote:DragonClaw66 wrote:Achilles wrote:This is why I hate doing balance changes. Everytime it's an immediate hatred of any change, polls and rage wanting it reverted and I end up wasting a bunch of my time. You realize that this Framer change only puts it on par with dousing and hexing that are both permanent?
Post your suggested Framer changes that you think are better than this and I will read over and consider them.
Framer Overhaul
I think this is what Framer needs, except for the disguise part, that the Forger Overhaul does better.
Anyway, thanks for fixing the other issues guys!
BasicFourLife wrote:RevengeoftheRaccoon wrote:DragonClaw66 wrote:Achilles wrote:This is why I hate doing balance changes. Everytime it's an immediate hatred of any change, polls and rage wanting it reverted and I end up wasting a bunch of my time. You realize that this Framer change only puts it on par with dousing and hexing that are both permanent?
Post your suggested Framer changes that you think are better than this and I will read over and consider them.
Framer Overhaul
I think this is what Framer needs, except for the disguise part, that the Forger Overhaul does better.
Anyway, thanks for fixing the other issues guys!
Nothing has been fixed so far, what?
BasicFourLife wrote:Achilles, if you want to prove yourself as a good Developer then you can start by listening to the feedback. Also, you said that you hate doing balance changes but why are you the one in charge of them then? Why don't include the RI/TG Developers in the conversations before making any decisions. As I can clearly tell, this balance change was rushed and it no one seemed to know it was going (I mean the change, we knew that a Framer change was coming for years now but not which one).
Achilles wrote:Thank you everyone for the feedback and happy thanksgiving. I’m going to be spending some time with my family and I will catch up on everything when I get back.
BasicFourLife wrote:Achilles, if you want to prove yourself as a good Developer then you can start by listening to the feedback. Also, you said that you hate doing balance changes but why are you the one in charge of them then? Why don't include the RI/TG Developers in the conversations before making any decisions. As I can clearly tell, this balance change was rushed and it no one seemed to know it was going (I mean the change, we knew that a Framer change was coming for years now but not which one).
ICECLIMBERS wrote:Stop acting like a ringleader bigot, goose.
Razbae wrote:Maybe instead of posting what you're going to change and changing it without asking the community first, you should try uh...asking the community. Then you wouldn't see such a backlash and feel like you're fighting your customers over what should be done. How can you make the community happy if you're doing/planning stuff without talking about it? I understand that's what you're trying to do now, but the very first post on this thread is, "I'M CHANGING THE GAME BIG TIME". Yikes.
Make a thread asking for role changes > collect the top 5/however many are reasonable to you > have the community vote on one > implement that one. It's really not that hard. Don't force stuff on us and work together.
BasicFourLife wrote:Razbae wrote:Maybe instead of posting what you're going to change and changing it without asking the community first, you should try uh...asking the community. Then you wouldn't see such a backlash and feel like you're fighting your customers over what should be done. How can you make the community happy if you're doing/planning stuff without talking about it? I understand that's what you're trying to do now, but the very first post on this thread is, "I'M CHANGING THE GAME BIG TIME". Yikes.
Make a thread asking for role changes > collect the top 5/however many are reasonable to you > have the community vote on one > implement that one. It's really not that hard. Don't force stuff on us and work together.
This would be horrible. Community still wants Any back in Ranked, so it wouldn’t work
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 34 guests