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Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 8:13 pm
by ParaYumi
The only thing about this that I dislike is Town roles not having death notes any more since death notes were a good way to explain your reasoning as vig or jailor or to put in a funny one liner or saying as vet. It just really takes away from the game to take that away, although it won't stop me from playing ToS. The witch change I'm iffy about, but I love every other change.

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 8:13 pm
by Tigerleap
HereThereEverywhere wrote:Merit Points aren't even all that bad, there are only a few things that are TP only.

Taunts can't be bought with Merit Points.

Kirize12 wrote:I don't like the Paywall in general, as it will inevitably split the community. I don't want to believe the fact that Hypnotist's RNG dependence is an intended feature of the game. However, Hypnotist is a role is needed in Salem more than ever, so I'd really appreciate Hypnotist (with it's original game in all its glory) being added to both modes, even if Tracker and a Town Power Trapper aren't.


I really do hope that BMG doesn't keep the RNG in the Hypnotist. As is explained in my Coven rant, the Hypnotist could potentially reveal what role the Random Mafia is just by using its ability, since the RNG could give a player an otherwise impossible notification. I do not understand why BMG gave this nerf to the Hypnotist. If they wanted to give the Hypnotist a nerf, they could've just given it limited uses instead of making it RNG. And problems with the interface aren't an excuse since they made one for the Potion Master and the Pirate, but for some reason not the Hypnotist...

By the way, when you said "with it's original game in all its glory," did you mean you wanted them to keep its original name (Drug Dealer), or did you mean something else?

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 8:22 pm
by HereThereEverywhere
ParaYumi wrote:The only thing about this that I dislike is Town roles not having death notes any more since death notes were a good way to explain your reasoning as vig or jailor or to put in a funny one liner or saying as vet. It just really takes away from the game to take that away, although it won't stop me from playing ToS. The witch change I'm iffy about, but I love every other change.

Death Notes were also used to easily confirm Town, which isn't a good thing. Less confirmability is better for balance.




Taunts can't be bought with MP right now, which might change sometime in the future, and if it doesn't it should. Also, taunts are hardly used in my experience.

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 8:32 pm
by MileyCyrusDeadPetz
the most powerful unique roles are all town roles. letting amne become a second mayor/jailor/ret is absolutely insane and you're kidding if you think that the possibility of amne going mafioso/gf/ww in anyway balances the former.

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 8:53 pm
by Achilles
Kirize12 wrote:I don't like the Paywall in general, as it will inevitably split the community. I don't want to believe the fact that Hypnotist's RNG dependence is an intended feature of the game. However, Hypnotist is a role is needed in Salem more than ever, so I'd really appreciate Hypnotist (with it's original game in all its glory) being added to both modes, even if Tracker and a Town Power Trapper aren't.


None of the Coven roles (meaning all 15 roles in the expansion) are going to be added to classic. Coven will have a ranked mode so you aren't going to be missing out on anything. I think there will be little reason to continue playing classic unless you want to remain F2P or you are playing with friends that don't own Coven. We are trying to move away from F2P (microtransactions) and focus more on a freemium model (free version and paid version). With a freemium model we can spend a majority of our focus on just creating the best play experience possible and hoping a decent percentage of users pickup the Coven. With F2P we were forced to spend too much of our focus on cosmetics, sales and analytics. If there is a positive reaction to the Coven (15-20% conversion would be awesome) you can expect to see a big shift. We will pull back on promotion popups and microtransaction systems. We would much rather be spending our time making a great game that is worth $10.

Another big change you can expect to see is in the player base. Banning toxic users and multi-accounters is an unwinnable battle in F2P unless you force new accounts to go through a boring early leveling experience which of course hurts your new user experience and retention. With a freemium model everything changes. Multi-accounters will have to pay $10 per account and then have all of them banned in one swoop. You won't see much of that in the Coven. Additionally toxic users are going to get suspended or banned and realize that they need to play nice or lose all of the value in their account and wallet. We already have plans in place to bring on more judges for the trial system and to prioritize Coven reports. We hope to suspend/ban toxic players within 24 hours or less. Word will quickly spread through the Coven community that your account won't last long if you aren't respectful of other players.

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 8:58 pm
by chitownmvp01
Achilles wrote:
Kirize12 wrote:I don't like the Paywall in general, as it will inevitably split the community. I don't want to believe the fact that Hypnotist's RNG dependence is an intended feature of the game. However, Hypnotist is a role is needed in Salem more than ever, so I'd really appreciate Hypnotist (with it's original game in all its glory) being added to both modes, even if Tracker and a Town Power Trapper aren't.


None of the Coven roles (meaning all 15 roles in the expansion) are going to be added to classic. Coven will have a ranked mode so you aren't going to be missing out on anything. I think there will be little reason to continue playing classic unless you want to remain F2P or you are playing with friends that don't own Coven. We are trying to move away from F2P (microtransactions) and focus more on a freemium model (free version and paid version). With a freemium model we can spend a majority of our focus on just creating the best play experience possible and hoping a decent percent of users pickup the Coven. With F2P we were forced to spend too much of our focus on cosmetics, sales and analytics. If there is a positive reaction to the Coven (15-20% conversion would be awesome) you can expect to see a big shift. We will pull back on promotion popups and microtransaction systems. We would much rather be spending our time making a great game that is worth $10.


A free version and a paid version is in fact how lots of companies run their games, so there really isn't a good reason to complain. Companies need to make enough money to make a profit.

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 9:05 pm
by Achilles
Kirize12 wrote:http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=66639&start=75#p2149757


Splitting the user base is a valid concern. Assuming we didn't do any marketing with the expansion to pump up the active user numbers this would indeed be something to worry about. Luckily we will be exploring a lot of different marketing tactics to increase the user base. Having a $10 game should increase our ARPU and allow us to spend more marketing dollars per new user. This has been a difficult thing in the past for us because ARPU on a F2P game is usually pretty low unless you are AAA.

Btw we have a Unity port with an entire graphics and UI/UX overhaul in the works slotted for fall of this year.

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 9:06 pm
by chitownmvp01
Fact is that if people really like the game, they are going to buy it more often than not. Some people won't buy it, but if you consider the general public, lots are going to buy it.

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 9:07 pm
by HereThereEverywhere
Can we get the message that plays when an Amnesiac remembers a role to go away now? What with Amne being able to remember unique roles, it's a very great Town buff, but an Amne wont be remembering scum roles unless it's very late-game when Town's numbers have dwindled significantly.

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 9:26 pm
by xUltiix
@Achilles Are there any upcoming changes planned to the Spy?

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:12 pm
by Achilles
xUltiix wrote:@Achilles Are there any upcoming changes planned to the Spy?


We know the Spy is in a bad spot with the Coven. We were actually just talking about it a few hours ago. I don't know that we will have time to do a rework before launch since we already have a ton on our plate but it is role number 1 priority for a rework or balance changes after launch.

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:20 pm
by xUltiix
Achilles wrote:
xUltiix wrote:@Achilles Are there any upcoming changes planned to the Spy?


We know the Spy is in a bad spot with the Coven. We were actually just talking about it a few hours ago. I don't know that we will have time to do a rework before launch since we already have a ton on our plate but it is role number 1 priority for a rework or balance changes after launch.

I didn't mean buffs.
It would be better to remove it in Coven and replace it in standard.
Are either of those suggestions acceptable?

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:21 pm
by Damafaud
Whoo

I'm liking this update.

Amnesiac can now remember Mafia.
Witch auto vest!
Jailer nerf~


Yeee

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:21 pm
by HereThereEverywhere
Reading whispers is an ability no role should have. Whichever alignment the role belongs to will not whisper because they will look suspicious, and the others wont because their whispers will be vulnerable. Spy is in desperate need of changing in general.

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:24 pm
by mdb1023
oh my god. these changes.


OH MY GOD I love them! THE DEVS ARE ACTUALLY LISTENING TO US!!!!!!


now if only they'd listen to us about removing the paywall

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:24 pm
by chitownmvp01
Spoiler:
Damafaud wrote:Whoo

I'm liking this update.

Amnesiac can now remember Mafia.
Witch auto vest!
Jailer nerf~


Yeee


Amnesiac has always been able to remember Mafia. Just not GF or Mafioso.

HereThereEverywhere wrote:Reading whispers is an ability no role should have. Whichever alignment the role belongs to will not whisper because they will look suspicious, and the others wont because their whispers will be vulnerable. Spy is in desperate need of changing in general.


I agree with this.

mdb1023 wrote:oh my god. these changes.


OH MY GOD I love them! THE DEVS ARE ACTUALLY LISTENING TO US!!!!!!


now if only they'd listen to us about removing the paywall


Do you realize how OP it is if the Amnesiac becomes Jailor, Mayor, or Retributionist in Ranked?

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:29 pm
by mdb1023
do you realize that amne can actually remember gf/Mafioso so I really don't give a shit?

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:31 pm
by chitownmvp01
mdb1023 wrote:do you realize that amne can actually remember gf/Mafioso so I really don't give a shit?


ok then, amne becoming those roles would be extremely OP though

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:33 pm
by mdb1023
k hold on a second. Now that my initial excitement has worn off.....


shit I actually don't like that it can become town unique roles.

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:37 pm
by HereThereEverywhere
We need Amne's remembering message to be silent, and for them to take up the previous owner's exact conditions. If the Ret revived, you can't. If the Vigi shot thrice, you get no bullets. If Mayor revealed, you're revealed(a message similar to the current Amne one just for when this happens could work).

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:38 pm
by chitownmvp01
HereThereEverywhere wrote:We need Amne's remembering message to be silent, and for them to take up the previous owner's exact conditions. If the Ret revived, you can't. If the Vigi shot thrice, you get no bullets. If Mayor revealed, you're revealed(a message similar to the current Amne one just for when this happens could work).


I agree with this, although it doesn't get rid of the OPness of remembering as Jailor, Mayor, or Retributionist.

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 11:15 pm
by chitownmvp01
Hex Master is a fun role. I just won a game as it where I killed the final 3 non Coven to win the game.

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 11:20 pm
by HereThereEverywhere
Hex Master is just a worse Arsonist. It can only ignite after it douses everyone.

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:10 am
by Ogeezalo
All I need now is new customizations. This is the perfect update for me. Unless they already have them, but I wouldn't know. I can't connect to PTR.

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:38 am
by Rivage
chitownmvp01 wrote:
Rivage wrote:
Achilles wrote:
Witch
we have removed the ability for the Witch to see the roles of her victims. We have instead given the Witch a special magical protection barrier that will give basic defense against the first attack directed at her.

Doctor
Doctor heal no longer prevents Vampire conversion

Jester
Additionally haunt is not effected by Transportation.


I think these 3 are very bad changes.


Why?

well witch is the worst change imo. You now have nothing to claim, no way to control the flow of the game or form a coalition with other evils since you have no idea who is who and in general will just be boring as hell. Maybe you controlled vigi but shot an immune, yet you will never control him again because you have no idea what it was. If there's a spy you are going to get lynched as an immune anyway.

Jester haunting makes sense but for me transferring guilt is one of the funniest things to do in game as a transporter.

Also with the removal of jailor death notes i am looking forward to 20 times more b*tching when jailors execute afk townies and can't even explain why they did it.