Design Changes Coming With Coven

Announcements made here about the game and the company.

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

Postby HereThereEverywhere » Sat May 20, 2017 4:24 pm

Achilles wrote:
chitownmvp01 wrote:Sorry. I was in disbelief when reading that the Amnesiac will be able to remember as unique roles. The potential to have 2 players revived, Amnesiac remember as Jailor when a Mayor is revived, etc. is just extremely OP.


Sure that could happen, or the Amnesiac could become a Werewolf or Godfather :)

Not if the Amnesiac's remembering notification is left in. Then it's far too risky.
canadian joker says a lot aboot society

Riskka#1854
User avatar
HereThereEverywhere
Vampire Hunter
Vampire Hunter
 
Posts: 4736
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:27 pm
Location: I am here

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

Postby LevinSnakesRise » Sat May 20, 2017 4:31 pm

chitownmvp01 wrote:
Kirize12 wrote:@Achilles Can Town Power, an alignment with Mayor/Jailor/Retributionist (and Trapper in Coven) be added to this patch? It's a community favorite :3


Yeah I support this idea.

Am I the only one who doesn't agree?
I'm the Admin for BlankMediaGames however I am not an employee and cannot reset your password or change your email.
Please email the Developers below to open a ticket and have them assist you;
support@blankmediagames.zendesk.com


Image . Image
Image | Image
(I do not handle appeals outside of the Appeals forum, including via PMs, Discord Messages, and the like. Please do not contact me about your appeal. My appeal decisions are final. Thank you.)
User avatar
LevinSnakesRise
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 16788
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:45 pm
Location: USA

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

Postby Kirize12 » Sat May 20, 2017 4:31 pm

But...why don't you agree?
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
User avatar
Kirize12
Sponsor
Sponsor
 
Posts: 8938
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:50 am
Location: Tony Stark in Ranked

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

Postby Lycalys » Sat May 20, 2017 6:49 pm

I feel like the witch change is too much. Could we have her know at least the type of role she visited? (such as Neutral Benign or Town Investigative)
Lycalys
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 1:19 am

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

Postby Tigerleap » Sat May 20, 2017 7:15 pm

"Jester haunt is a passive attack and not a visit. Additionally haunt is not effected by Transportation."

It's 'affected,' not 'effected.' Effect can be used as a verb, but 'effected' doesn't mean the same as 'affected,' which is what I think you meant.

Will the non-Coven roles still be available outside of the expansion? (Tracker, Trapper, Ambusher, etc) Like, could these roles appear in Ranked? (sorry for double-posting)

"Skill and luck are bound to intercept each other, and thus the two cannot coexist in harmony."

-Tigerleap


Image

FAQ

Spoiler: FAQ:
Why am I called Tigerleap? - It's my Warrior Cat name!
What is my favorite role? - The Lookout is the most fun role for me to play as.
What is my least favorite role? - The Pirate; it's absolutely cancer and we must get rid of it.
User avatar
Tigerleap
Retributionist
Retributionist
 
Posts: 346
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:46 pm
Location: Somewhere

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

Postby Kirize12 » Sat May 20, 2017 7:33 pm

No.

Although Tracker, Hypnotist, and Trapper if Town Power would work great in Vanilla Ranked. (assuming Hypnotist is fixed)
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
User avatar
Kirize12
Sponsor
Sponsor
 
Posts: 8938
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:50 am
Location: Tony Stark in Ranked

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

Postby automaticgunshot » Sat May 20, 2017 7:42 pm

RIP all the Casual players who rely on death notes ;-;
Image
User avatar
automaticgunshot
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:42 am
Location: Ohio, United States

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

Postby Tigerleap » Sat May 20, 2017 7:48 pm

Kirize12 wrote:No.

Although Tracker, Hypnotist, and Trapper if Town Power would work great in Vanilla Ranked. (assuming Hypnotist is fixed)

It kind of sucks that you have to pay money to enjoy the full game now. As if the merit points update wasn't bad enough, we're now getting a full-blown paid expansion! I know that I'm going to buy the expansion, as are many of my fellow forumers, but I know that a lot of great players out there are going to be left out. With all of these money-grab updates, even the players that regularly spend money feel like they're being punished.

I'd definitely like to know what you have to say about this, Kirize, since you're the one who created the original 'Drug Dealer' role.

"Skill and luck are bound to intercept each other, and thus the two cannot coexist in harmony."

-Tigerleap


Image

FAQ

Spoiler: FAQ:
Why am I called Tigerleap? - It's my Warrior Cat name!
What is my favorite role? - The Lookout is the most fun role for me to play as.
What is my least favorite role? - The Pirate; it's absolutely cancer and we must get rid of it.
User avatar
Tigerleap
Retributionist
Retributionist
 
Posts: 346
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:46 pm
Location: Somewhere

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

Postby HereThereEverywhere » Sat May 20, 2017 7:49 pm

Merit Points aren't even all that bad, there are only a few things that are TP only.
canadian joker says a lot aboot society

Riskka#1854
User avatar
HereThereEverywhere
Vampire Hunter
Vampire Hunter
 
Posts: 4736
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:27 pm
Location: I am here

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

Postby Kirize12 » Sat May 20, 2017 7:54 pm

I don't like the Paywall in general, as it will inevitably split the community. I don't want to believe the fact that Hypnotist's RNG dependence is an intended feature of the game. However, Hypnotist is a role is needed in Salem more than ever, so I'd really appreciate Hypnotist (with it's original game in all its glory) being added to both modes, even if Tracker and a Town Power Trapper aren't.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
User avatar
Kirize12
Sponsor
Sponsor
 
Posts: 8938
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:50 am
Location: Tony Stark in Ranked

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

Postby ParaYumi » Sat May 20, 2017 8:13 pm

The only thing about this that I dislike is Town roles not having death notes any more since death notes were a good way to explain your reasoning as vig or jailor or to put in a funny one liner or saying as vet. It just really takes away from the game to take that away, although it won't stop me from playing ToS. The witch change I'm iffy about, but I love every other change.
User avatar
ParaYumi
Benefactor
Benefactor
 
Posts: 241
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:08 pm

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

Postby Tigerleap » Sat May 20, 2017 8:13 pm

HereThereEverywhere wrote:Merit Points aren't even all that bad, there are only a few things that are TP only.

Taunts can't be bought with Merit Points.

Kirize12 wrote:I don't like the Paywall in general, as it will inevitably split the community. I don't want to believe the fact that Hypnotist's RNG dependence is an intended feature of the game. However, Hypnotist is a role is needed in Salem more than ever, so I'd really appreciate Hypnotist (with it's original game in all its glory) being added to both modes, even if Tracker and a Town Power Trapper aren't.


I really do hope that BMG doesn't keep the RNG in the Hypnotist. As is explained in my Coven rant, the Hypnotist could potentially reveal what role the Random Mafia is just by using its ability, since the RNG could give a player an otherwise impossible notification. I do not understand why BMG gave this nerf to the Hypnotist. If they wanted to give the Hypnotist a nerf, they could've just given it limited uses instead of making it RNG. And problems with the interface aren't an excuse since they made one for the Potion Master and the Pirate, but for some reason not the Hypnotist...

By the way, when you said "with it's original game in all its glory," did you mean you wanted them to keep its original name (Drug Dealer), or did you mean something else?

"Skill and luck are bound to intercept each other, and thus the two cannot coexist in harmony."

-Tigerleap


Image

FAQ

Spoiler: FAQ:
Why am I called Tigerleap? - It's my Warrior Cat name!
What is my favorite role? - The Lookout is the most fun role for me to play as.
What is my least favorite role? - The Pirate; it's absolutely cancer and we must get rid of it.
User avatar
Tigerleap
Retributionist
Retributionist
 
Posts: 346
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:46 pm
Location: Somewhere

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

Postby Kirize12 » Sat May 20, 2017 8:17 pm

Drug Dealer.

Making it have limited uses would substantially nerf the role to the point of unplayability.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
User avatar
Kirize12
Sponsor
Sponsor
 
Posts: 8938
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:50 am
Location: Tony Stark in Ranked

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

Postby HereThereEverywhere » Sat May 20, 2017 8:22 pm

ParaYumi wrote:The only thing about this that I dislike is Town roles not having death notes any more since death notes were a good way to explain your reasoning as vig or jailor or to put in a funny one liner or saying as vet. It just really takes away from the game to take that away, although it won't stop me from playing ToS. The witch change I'm iffy about, but I love every other change.

Death Notes were also used to easily confirm Town, which isn't a good thing. Less confirmability is better for balance.




Taunts can't be bought with MP right now, which might change sometime in the future, and if it doesn't it should. Also, taunts are hardly used in my experience.
canadian joker says a lot aboot society

Riskka#1854
User avatar
HereThereEverywhere
Vampire Hunter
Vampire Hunter
 
Posts: 4736
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:27 pm
Location: I am here

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

Postby MileyCyrusDeadPetz » Sat May 20, 2017 8:32 pm

the most powerful unique roles are all town roles. letting amne become a second mayor/jailor/ret is absolutely insane and you're kidding if you think that the possibility of amne going mafioso/gf/ww in anyway balances the former.
MileyCyrusDeadPetz
Witch
Witch
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:44 am

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

Postby Achilles » Sat May 20, 2017 8:53 pm

Kirize12 wrote:I don't like the Paywall in general, as it will inevitably split the community. I don't want to believe the fact that Hypnotist's RNG dependence is an intended feature of the game. However, Hypnotist is a role is needed in Salem more than ever, so I'd really appreciate Hypnotist (with it's original game in all its glory) being added to both modes, even if Tracker and a Town Power Trapper aren't.


None of the Coven roles (meaning all 15 roles in the expansion) are going to be added to classic. Coven will have a ranked mode so you aren't going to be missing out on anything. I think there will be little reason to continue playing classic unless you want to remain F2P or you are playing with friends that don't own Coven. We are trying to move away from F2P (microtransactions) and focus more on a freemium model (free version and paid version). With a freemium model we can spend a majority of our focus on just creating the best play experience possible and hoping a decent percentage of users pickup the Coven. With F2P we were forced to spend too much of our focus on cosmetics, sales and analytics. If there is a positive reaction to the Coven (15-20% conversion would be awesome) you can expect to see a big shift. We will pull back on promotion popups and microtransaction systems. We would much rather be spending our time making a great game that is worth $10.

Another big change you can expect to see is in the player base. Banning toxic users and multi-accounters is an unwinnable battle in F2P unless you force new accounts to go through a boring early leveling experience which of course hurts your new user experience and retention. With a freemium model everything changes. Multi-accounters will have to pay $10 per account and then have all of them banned in one swoop. You won't see much of that in the Coven. Additionally toxic users are going to get suspended or banned and realize that they need to play nice or lose all of the value in their account and wallet. We already have plans in place to bring on more judges for the trial system and to prioritize Coven reports. We hope to suspend/ban toxic players within 24 hours or less. Word will quickly spread through the Coven community that your account won't last long if you aren't respectful of other players.
User avatar
Achilles
Developer
Developer
 
Posts: 1034
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:02 pm

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

Postby chitownmvp01 » Sat May 20, 2017 8:58 pm

Achilles wrote:
Kirize12 wrote:I don't like the Paywall in general, as it will inevitably split the community. I don't want to believe the fact that Hypnotist's RNG dependence is an intended feature of the game. However, Hypnotist is a role is needed in Salem more than ever, so I'd really appreciate Hypnotist (with it's original game in all its glory) being added to both modes, even if Tracker and a Town Power Trapper aren't.


None of the Coven roles (meaning all 15 roles in the expansion) are going to be added to classic. Coven will have a ranked mode so you aren't going to be missing out on anything. I think there will be little reason to continue playing classic unless you want to remain F2P or you are playing with friends that don't own Coven. We are trying to move away from F2P (microtransactions) and focus more on a freemium model (free version and paid version). With a freemium model we can spend a majority of our focus on just creating the best play experience possible and hoping a decent percent of users pickup the Coven. With F2P we were forced to spend too much of our focus on cosmetics, sales and analytics. If there is a positive reaction to the Coven (15-20% conversion would be awesome) you can expect to see a big shift. We will pull back on promotion popups and microtransaction systems. We would much rather be spending our time making a great game that is worth $10.


A free version and a paid version is in fact how lots of companies run their games, so there really isn't a good reason to complain. Companies need to make enough money to make a profit.
Spoiler: Image


Thanks Achro!: Spoiler:
Chitsticks INC.


Favorite Roles: Mayor, Jailor, Investigator, Lookout, Sheriff, Godfather, Consigliere
Least Favorite Roles: Transporter, Jester, Survivor, Disguiser, Mafioso (original, not promoted)
User avatar
chitownmvp01
[Forum Mafia XI] Winner
[Forum Mafia XI] Winner
 
Posts: 8464
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 4:50 am
Location: Chicagoland (CST/UTC-6 or CDT/UTC-5)

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

Postby Kirize12 » Sat May 20, 2017 8:59 pm

Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
User avatar
Kirize12
Sponsor
Sponsor
 
Posts: 8938
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:50 am
Location: Tony Stark in Ranked

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

Postby Achilles » Sat May 20, 2017 9:05 pm

Kirize12 wrote:http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=66639&start=75#p2149757


Splitting the user base is a valid concern. Assuming we didn't do any marketing with the expansion to pump up the active user numbers this would indeed be something to worry about. Luckily we will be exploring a lot of different marketing tactics to increase the user base. Having a $10 game should increase our ARPU and allow us to spend more marketing dollars per new user. This has been a difficult thing in the past for us because ARPU on a F2P game is usually pretty low unless you are AAA.

Btw we have a Unity port with an entire graphics and UI/UX overhaul in the works slotted for fall of this year.
User avatar
Achilles
Developer
Developer
 
Posts: 1034
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:02 pm

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

Postby chitownmvp01 » Sat May 20, 2017 9:06 pm

Fact is that if people really like the game, they are going to buy it more often than not. Some people won't buy it, but if you consider the general public, lots are going to buy it.
Spoiler: Image


Thanks Achro!: Spoiler:
Chitsticks INC.


Favorite Roles: Mayor, Jailor, Investigator, Lookout, Sheriff, Godfather, Consigliere
Least Favorite Roles: Transporter, Jester, Survivor, Disguiser, Mafioso (original, not promoted)
User avatar
chitownmvp01
[Forum Mafia XI] Winner
[Forum Mafia XI] Winner
 
Posts: 8464
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 4:50 am
Location: Chicagoland (CST/UTC-6 or CDT/UTC-5)

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

Postby HereThereEverywhere » Sat May 20, 2017 9:07 pm

Can we get the message that plays when an Amnesiac remembers a role to go away now? What with Amne being able to remember unique roles, it's a very great Town buff, but an Amne wont be remembering scum roles unless it's very late-game when Town's numbers have dwindled significantly.
canadian joker says a lot aboot society

Riskka#1854
User avatar
HereThereEverywhere
Vampire Hunter
Vampire Hunter
 
Posts: 4736
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:27 pm
Location: I am here

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

Postby Kirize12 » Sat May 20, 2017 9:22 pm

Hypnotist isn't just a fun role, it's a balance tool. Which is why I believe it should be added to both versions.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
User avatar
Kirize12
Sponsor
Sponsor
 
Posts: 8938
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:50 am
Location: Tony Stark in Ranked

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

Postby xUltiix » Sat May 20, 2017 9:26 pm

@Achilles Are there any upcoming changes planned to the Spy?
User avatar
xUltiix
[Forum Mafia XIX] Winner
[Forum Mafia XIX] Winner
 
Posts: 436
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 12:32 am

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

Postby Achilles » Sat May 20, 2017 10:12 pm

xUltiix wrote:@Achilles Are there any upcoming changes planned to the Spy?


We know the Spy is in a bad spot with the Coven. We were actually just talking about it a few hours ago. I don't know that we will have time to do a rework before launch since we already have a ton on our plate but it is role number 1 priority for a rework or balance changes after launch.
User avatar
Achilles
Developer
Developer
 
Posts: 1034
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:02 pm

Re: Design Changes Coming With Coven

Postby Kirize12 » Sat May 20, 2017 10:14 pm

I don't think Spy's in a bad spot with the Coven at all. Seeing just whispers is good enough for a role so many people want to see flat out removed.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
User avatar
Kirize12
Sponsor
Sponsor
 
Posts: 8938
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:50 am
Location: Tony Stark in Ranked

PreviousNext

Return to Announcements

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests