Design Changes Coming With Coven

[Achilles]

As most of you have heard by now we have a large expansion coming soon called The Coven! While the roles in this expansion will not be in the base version of Town of Salem there are many balance changes that will be coming to both versions.

Attack and Defense System
To help players better understand what attacks will kill which roles we have added a coded system to explain attacks and defense attributes. More info here http://www.blankmediagames.com/keywords/

Amnesiac
Amnesiac can now remember unique roles!

Dev Notes: Many of the new roles added to the Coven are very powerful and unique. We felt that with the Amnesiac was left in a bad spot without being able to remember unique roles so we changed this. There still can only be 1 alive unique role in the game however. If multiple Amnesiacs try to remember the same unique role 1 of them will be chosen at random and the others will fail to remember. In the event of a Retributionist resurrecting a unique role and an Amnesiac remembering that unique role in the same night, the Retributionist will always take priority.

Arsonist
Arsonist ignite is considered a passive attack, not a visiting attack (dousing is still a visit). This means an Arsonist ignite will now kill a jailed target.

Jailing
Jailing will now make all targeting fail against the jailed target.

Dev Notes: We felt that jailing was too one sided against harmful abilities but did not punish beneficial abilities. Since all targeting will now fail against a jailed target this means Sheriffs, Investigators, Lookouts, etc can not use their abilities on a jailed target. After all the lore is that the person is not at their house and is in the Jailors jail cell! We feel this will make Jailing a little more punishing to the Town.

Witch
The Witch will grow into the Coven Leader in the expansion. We want the Witch in classic Salem to have a similar feel to the Coven Leader so we have removed the ability for the Witch to see the roles of her victims. We have instead given the Witch a special magical protection barrier that will give basic defense against the first attack directed at her.

Doctor
Doctor heal no longer prevents Vampire conversion

Jester
Jester haunt is a passive attack and not a visit. Additionally haunt is not effected by Transportation.

Dev Notes: This is how the ability has mostly been implemented from the beginning. The biggest change to this is that Lookout will not see a Jester haunting their target. We simply wanted to make it clear that since the haunt is a passive ability it can be used on jailed targets (as it always has been) and that it will not trigger BG, Crusader, Ambusher or Traps.

Medium
Fixed a bug that caused Lookouts to see a dead Medium seance as a visit.

Self Targeting Abilities
Code change to prevent special abilities triggered by targeting yourself (ignite, vests, self heal, etc) from interacting with roles that can change your target.

Dev Notes: Roles such as Witch or Transporter forcing a Doctor to use their self heal or forcing an Arsonist to ignite were a result of how the self targeting logic was implemented and we have now fixed that. This also means roles such as Lookout and Tracker will not see these roles as "visiting themselves" when they use their special abilities.

Death Notes
We have removed all death notes from Town roles. We felt that death notes on Town roles were a powerful tool for Veterans and Jailors to confirm their role so we have removed this ability. Additionally lore wise it seemed weird for Town to leave death notes

[xUltiix]

Can we get rid of spy

[chitownmvp01]

Are all these changes coming to both versions?

[Achilles]

Are all these changes coming to both versions?

Yes, that is what the post says

[xUltiix]

While some of these are needed I feel like a lot of others were totally overlooked

[chitownmvp01]

Are all these changes coming to both versions?

Yes, that is what the post says

Sorry. I was in disbelief when reading that the Amnesiac will be able to remember as unique roles. The potential to have 2 players revived, Amnesiac remember as Jailor when a Mayor is revived, etc. is just extremely OP. There can even be a scenario where the Amnesiac remembers as Mayor and then reveals and wins town the game in which they would have lost otherwise.

Jailing: The changes will have no effect on how I play the role. I don't like that investigative roles can potentially confirm themselves by correctly knowing that one of their target was jailed on a given night (Transporter can already do that)

All the other changes I'm fine with. Keep up the great work!

[Ogeezalo]

Good job devs, it sounds great! I have been waiting for this!

[Achilles]

Sorry. I was in disbelief when reading that the Amnesiac will be able to remember as unique roles. The potential to have 2 players revived, Amnesiac remember as Jailor when a Mayor is revived, etc. is just extremely OP.

Sure that could happen, or the Amnesiac could become a Werewolf or Godfather

[xUltiix]

I really like the amne change though

@Achilles When do these come out and are they live on the PTR?

[chitownmvp01]

Sorry. I was in disbelief when reading that the Amnesiac will be able to remember as unique roles. The potential to have 2 players revived, Amnesiac remember as Jailor when a Mayor is revived, etc. is just extremely OP.

Sure that could happen, or the Amnesiac could become a Werewolf or Godfather

That's very swingy and can potentially be extremely OP.

Can we get rid of spy

Yeah I needs to be removed or reworked. Mafia shouldn't have anyone seeing their chat.

[lalalalulullama]

can the Retributionist revive disguisers now? I feel like that would be a good rebalancing of those roles.

[Achilles]

I really like the amne change though

@Achilles When do these come out and are they live on the PTR?

They are on the PTR currently and will come with the Coven expansion. Expected release date is June 6th but this is tentative.

[LevinSnakesRise]

Amnesiac shouldn't become Godfather if a Godfather is alive though.
Maybe if all Mafia are dead, but if the original dies, and Mafioso is in the game and gets promoted, Amnesiac shouldn't be able to select Godfather.

Just my opinion though.

[Jerme]

Can an Amne rememberign Retributionisrt reive a townie again when the normal Retri has already used their revive?

[chitownmvp01]

can the Retributionist revive disguisers now? I feel like that would be a good rebalancing of those roles.

Retributionist can only revive town. A disguiser who disguised as a town role being able to be revived, that would be interesting. I like that idea.

I really like the amne change though

@Achilles When do these come out and are they live on the PTR?

In Ranked, it's now possible for 3 townies to be revived in a game. How is that balanced?

[Rivage]

Witch
we have removed the ability for the Witch to see the roles of her victims. We have instead given the Witch a special magical protection barrier that will give basic defense against the first attack directed at her.

Doctor
Doctor heal no longer prevents Vampire conversion

Jester
Additionally haunt is not effected by Transportation.

I think these 3 are very bad changes.

[Achilles]

can the Retributionist revive disguisers now? I feel like that would be a good rebalancing of those roles.

Retributionist can only revive town. A disguiser who disguised as a town role being able to be revived, that would be interesting. I like that idea.

I really like the amne change though

@Achilles When do these come out and are they live on the PTR?

In Ranked, it's now possible for 3 townies to be revived in a game. How is that balanced?

The ranked role list is going to be changed soon.

[Thadeu]

Sorry, I don't agree with the witch's change, so, basically, you buff the witch before, which was needed, so she could see the roles which she controlled, so she can have a fighting chance, and now you debuff for no reason, making every action being blind, which wasn't suppose to be with the witch, this change is pointless and it makes it worse, defense or not, it's usleess if the witch/coven leader doesn't know what the heck they are doing. Aso, please for the love of god, change the VIP, I'M HAVING GAMES WITH COVEN/PLAGUE/PIRATE AS VIP, IT'S A AUTO-LOSS FOR TOWN BECAUSE IF THEY AE LYNCHED WE LOSE

[Achilles]

I forgot to mention Town death notes. Added that to the post.

[chitownmvp01]

Witch
we have removed the ability for the Witch to see the roles of her victims. We have instead given the Witch a special magical protection barrier that will give basic defense against the first attack directed at her.

Doctor
Doctor heal no longer prevents Vampire conversion

Jester
Additionally haunt is not effected by Transportation.

I think these 3 are very bad changes.

Why?

can the Retributionist revive disguisers now? I feel like that would be a good rebalancing of those roles.

Retributionist can only revive town. A disguiser who disguised as a town role being able to be revived, that would be interesting. I like that idea.

I really like the amne change though

@Achilles When do these come out and are they live on the PTR?

In Ranked, it's now possible for 3 townies to be revived in a game. How is that balanced?

The ranked role list is going to be changed soon.

Still at least 2 townies can be revived if an Amnesiac becomes a Retributionist.

[Achilles]

Sorry, I don't agree with the witch's change, so, basically, you buff the witch before, which was needed, so she could see the roles which she controlled, so she can have a fighting chance, and now you debuff for no reason, making every action being blind, which wasn't suppose to be with the witch, this change is pointless and it makes it worse, defense or not, it's usleess if the witch/coven leader doesn't know what the heck they are doing. Aso, please for the love of god, change the VIP, I'M HAVING GAMES WITH COVEN/PLAGUE/PIRATE AS VIP, IT'S A AUTO-LOSS FOR TOWN BECAUSE IF THEY AE LYNCHED WE LOSE

The VIP bug was fixed today.

[Nellyfox]

Finally getting rid of that dumb Jester haunt mechanic, thank you. Witch change is good, too. Iffy on the Amnesiac change, though. Maybe just have it be able to remember unique roles in the Coven expansion? Because that's the reason you're giving it that ability.

[Achilles]

Witch
we have removed the ability for the Witch to see the roles of her victims. We have instead given the Witch a special magical protection barrier that will give basic defense against the first attack directed at her.

Doctor
Doctor heal no longer prevents Vampire conversion

Jester
Additionally haunt is not effected by Transportation.

I think these 3 are very bad changes.

Why?

can the Retributionist revive disguisers now? I feel like that would be a good rebalancing of those roles.

Retributionist can only revive town. A disguiser who disguised as a town role being able to be revived, that would be interesting. I like that idea.

I really like the amne change though

@Achilles When do these come out and are they live on the PTR?

In Ranked, it's now possible for 3 townies to be revived in a game. How is that balanced?

The ranked role list is going to be changed soon.

Still at least 2 townies can be revived if an Amnesiac becomes a Retributionist.

We were playing around with the idea of Retributionist revives bringing players back as a vanilla townie (no abilities). Will need to give this some more thought.

[chitownmvp01]

Finally getting rid of that dumb Jester haunt mechanic, thank you. Witch change is good, too. Iffy on the Amnesiac change, though. Maybe just have it be able to remember unique roles in the Coven expansion? Because that's the reason you're giving it that ability.

Yeah, I agree with this. Amne become unique roles in the normal version is extremely swingy and OP.

[Thadeu]

Sorry, I don't agree with the witch's change, so, basically, you buff the witch before, which was needed, so she could see the roles which she controlled, so she can have a fighting chance, and now you debuff for no reason, making every action being blind, which wasn't suppose to be with the witch, this change is pointless and it makes it worse, defense or not, it's usleess if the witch/coven leader doesn't know what the heck they are doing. Aso, please for the love of god, change the VIP, I'M HAVING GAMES WITH COVEN/PLAGUE/PIRATE AS VIP, IT'S A AUTO-LOSS FOR TOWN BECAUSE IF THEY AE LYNCHED WE LOSE

The VIP bug was fixed today.

Okay, thanks, since I've posted the bug and got no answer I didn't know about it