Design Changes Coming With Coven

[LevinSnakesRise]

Sorry, I don't agree with the witch's change, so, basically, you buff the witch before, which was needed, so she could see the roles which she controlled, so she can have a fighting chance, and now you debuff for no reason, making every action being blind, which wasn't suppose to be with the witch, this change is pointless and it makes it worse, defense or not, it's usleess if the witch/coven leader doesn't know what the heck they are doing. Aso, please for the love of god, change the VIP, I'M HAVING GAMES WITH COVEN/PLAGUE/PIRATE AS VIP, IT'S A AUTO-LOSS FOR TOWN BECAUSE IF THEY AE LYNCHED WE LOSE

The VIP bug was fixed today.

Okay, thanks, since I've posted the bug and got no answer I didn't know about it

We recently just did a server restart, roughly an hour-ish ago.

[Thadeu]

Can you guys also please fix medusa, medusa is losing everytime cause the will is showing and it's insta lynch, it just happenned to me..

[LevinSnakesRise]

Can you guys also please fix medusa, medusa is losing everytime cause the will is showing and it's insta lynch, it just happenned to me..

They're working on this.

[Ogeezalo]

Spoiler:

Witch
we have removed the ability for the Witch to see the roles of her victims. We have instead given the Witch a special magical protection barrier that will give basic defense against the first attack directed at her.

Doctor
Doctor heal no longer prevents Vampire conversion

Jester
Additionally haunt is not effected by Transportation.

I think these 3 are very bad changes.

Why?

can the Retributionist revive disguisers now? I feel like that would be a good rebalancing of those roles.

Retributionist can only revive town. A disguiser who disguised as a town role being able to be revived, that would be interesting. I like that idea.

I really like the amne change though

@Achilles When do these come out and are they live on the PTR?

In Ranked, it's now possible for 3 townies to be revived in a game. How is that balanced?

The ranked role list is going to be changed soon.

Still at least 2 townies can be revived if an Amnesiac becomes a Retributionist.

We were playing around with the idea of Retributionist revives bringing players back as a vanilla townie (no abilities). Will need to give this some more thought.

I'd say don't make them completely vanilla, but maybe remove a couple strong attributes. That would be interesting for reviving incredibly powerful roles like jailor or mayor, but wouldn't make reviving useless.

[Achilles]

Finally getting rid of that dumb Jester haunt mechanic, thank you. Witch change is good, too. Iffy on the Amnesiac change, though. Maybe just have it be able to remember unique roles in the Coven expansion? Because that's the reason you're giving it that ability.

Yeah, I agree with this. Amne become unique roles in the normal version is extremely swingy and OP.

Expect many balance patches after the launch of the Coven. We are trying to avoid having different rule sets for each version so that it is easy to jump between the two and we want to avoid a knowledge barrier when switching to Coven for the first time. With adding 15 new roles and new unique game modes there will be a lot to balance and we will be very busy! Our intention is to launch without Coven ranked for the first week or two, let people get use to the new roles and do some balance tweaks before we roll out ranked.

[Nellyfox]

Spoiler:

Witch
we have removed the ability for the Witch to see the roles of her victims. We have instead given the Witch a special magical protection barrier that will give basic defense against the first attack directed at her.

Doctor
Doctor heal no longer prevents Vampire conversion

Jester
Additionally haunt is not effected by Transportation.

I think these 3 are very bad changes.

Why?

can the Retributionist revive disguisers now? I feel like that would be a good rebalancing of those roles.

Retributionist can only revive town. A disguiser who disguised as a town role being able to be revived, that would be interesting. I like that idea.

I really like the amne change though

@Achilles When do these come out and are they live on the PTR?

In Ranked, it's now possible for 3 townies to be revived in a game. How is that balanced?

The ranked role list is going to be changed soon.

Still at least 2 townies can be revived if an Amnesiac becomes a Retributionist.

We were playing around with the idea of Retributionist revives bringing players back as a vanilla townie (no abilities). Will need to give this some more thought.

I'd say don't make them completely vanilla, but maybe remove a couple strong attributes. That would be interesting for reviving incredibly powerful roles like jailor or mayor.

Is having a confirmed town plus an extra vote not enough? Having them be vanilla townie is the best Retributionist can get, otherwise I agree with Kirize on removing it.

[Ogeezalo]

Finally getting rid of that dumb Jester haunt mechanic, thank you. Witch change is good, too. Iffy on the Amnesiac change, though. Maybe just have it be able to remember unique roles in the Coven expansion? Because that's the reason you're giving it that ability.

Yeah, I agree with this. Amne become unique roles in the normal version is extremely swingy and OP.

Expect many balance patches after the launch of the Coven. We are trying to avoid having different rule sets for each version so that it is easy to jump between the two and we want to avoid a knowledge barrier when switching to Coven for the first time. With adding 15 new roles and new unique game modes there will be a lot to balance and we will be very busy! Our intention is to launch without Coven ranked for the first week or two, let people get use to the new roles and do some balance tweaks before we roll out ranked.

Sounds fair. Will there the requirements for ranked Coven games be higher or lower than regular ranked?

[Thadeu]

Can you guys also please fix medusa, medusa is losing everytime cause the will is showing and it's insta lynch, it just happenned to me..

They're working on this.

Yeah...it's just so frustrating. "We cn't determine ****'s role" well, it's not like it shows in their will....Medusa it's the new disguiser...

[chitownmvp01]

Achilles, is it okay if ALL death notes are removed? (except Serial Killer)

Mafia can still out an NK anonymously to get them lynched (they would not lie about it either) and arso and WW have no need for them as they just make it so you have to read the same thing over and over again. Allowing Serial Killer to get The Godfather lynched anonymously, but not the other way around, is good for he game and bridges the gap between Godfather and Serial Killer slightly.

@Achilles Axe Retributionist. It'll just revive N2 100% of he time and make Medium unfakeclaimable. There's no consmetic attached to it either.

Mafia outing NK in their death note early in the game is due to poor play, not that they have a death note. A Mafia member can just claim an investigative role to out them as well. Investigative roles are the most common roles that are fakeclaimed.

[Achilles]

Can you guys also please fix medusa, medusa is losing everytime cause the will is showing and it's insta lynch, it just happenned to me..

They're working on this.

Yeah...it's just so frustrating. "We cn't determine ****'s role" well, it's not like it shows in their will....Medusa it's the new disguiser...

Fixing this as we speak

[ChubbyMooshroom9]

The only change I'm iffy on here is the jailor one, but i still really don't mind

Gj devs

[chitownmvp01]

Okay, but the mafia has to out. Which puts a target on their back.

@Nelly Reviving Vanilla means there's even more reason to revive the first person. This doesn't make for deep or strategical gameplay. And still confirms all mediums, which is dumb.

You should revive the first person regardless unless you're an idiot though. I don't like any suggestions that reduce opportunities for poor play. We're not babies.

The only change I'm iffy on here is the jailor one, but i still really don't mind

Gj devs

You don't see a problem with Amne becoming Retributionst in Ranked?

[Nellyfox]

Okay, but the mafia has to out. Which puts a target on their back.

@Nelly Reviving Vanilla means there's even more reason to revive the first person. This doesn't make for deep or strategical gameplay. And still confirms all mediums, which is dumb.

Not really. If you know the person who died first isn't a smart player then why bother reviving them? They may just hinder town in the long run.

I mean, I more agree with having Retributionist removed, but if it can be balanced in some fashion I give it the benefit of the doubt. I always do.

[ChubbyMooshroom9]

Chit that's one bad thibg out of many positives

[chitownmvp01]

At a minimum, all revives from an Amne who becomes a Retributionist should be Vanilla Townie. A scenario such as reviving the Jailor twice is OP.

Chit that's one bad thibg out of many positives

So? Amne remembering as unique roles can be extremely swingy and OP.

@chit Reviving the first person every game does not make for tactical depth. Ret is just not a strategical role.

@nelly All roles are PR's. Just tell the revived townie exactly what to do.

I strongly believe that poor play should be penalized by suffering the consequences of it.

[chitownmvp01]

And I strongly believe that roles that do not offer too many strategies should not be in the game.

Either is fine with me. Take it out or leave as is is my stance.

[chitownmvp01]

@Achilles Can Town Power, an alignment with Mayor/Jailor/Retributionist (and Trapper in Coven) be added to this patch? It's a community favorite :3

Yeah I support this idea.

[BlazinIce]

@Achilles Can Town Power, an alignment with Mayor/Jailor/Retributionist (and Trapper in Coven) be added to this patch? It's a community favorite :3

Yeah I support this idea.

Also remove the RNG from every new RNG influemcee role.

[HereThereEverywhere]

Sorry. I was in disbelief when reading that the Amnesiac will be able to remember as unique roles. The potential to have 2 players revived, Amnesiac remember as Jailor when a Mayor is revived, etc. is just extremely OP.

Sure that could happen, or the Amnesiac could become a Werewolf or Godfather

Not if the Amnesiac's remembering notification is left in. Then it's far too risky.

[LevinSnakesRise]

@Achilles Can Town Power, an alignment with Mayor/Jailor/Retributionist (and Trapper in Coven) be added to this patch? It's a community favorite :3

Yeah I support this idea.

Am I the only one who doesn't agree?

[Lycalys]

I feel like the witch change is too much. Could we have her know at least the type of role she visited? (such as Neutral Benign or Town Investigative)

[Tigerleap]

"Jester haunt is a passive attack and not a visit. Additionally haunt is not effected by Transportation."

It's 'affected,' not 'effected.' Effect can be used as a verb, but 'effected' doesn't mean the same as 'affected,' which is what I think you meant.

Will the non-Coven roles still be available outside of the expansion? (Tracker, Trapper, Ambusher, etc) Like, could these roles appear in Ranked? (sorry for double-posting)

[automaticgunshot]

RIP all the Casual players who rely on death notes ;-;

[Tigerleap]

No.

Although Tracker, Hypnotist, and Trapper if Town Power would work great in Vanilla Ranked. (assuming Hypnotist is fixed)

It kind of sucks that you have to pay money to enjoy the full game now. As if the merit points update wasn't bad enough, we're now getting a full-blown paid expansion! I know that I'm going to buy the expansion, as are many of my fellow forumers, but I know that a lot of great players out there are going to be left out. With all of these money-grab updates, even the players that regularly spend money feel like they're being punished.

I'd definitely like to know what you have to say about this, Kirize, since you're the one who created the original 'Drug Dealer' role.

[HereThereEverywhere]

Merit Points aren't even all that bad, there are only a few things that are TP only.