Patch 3.3.1c Update New Ranked Role List!x2

[kiromishiro21]

There's a player with the ign "Jerkoff" that keeps going around and fucking things up (intentionally using bad plays that aren't considered gamethrowing by the current rules, switching claims randomly, etc.), so it's hard to get an accurate gauge of how good the current list is.

Hopefully they get banned soon enough.

This player?? : jjeerrkkooff

The trial system is still under maintenance. But do not worry. If he is breaking the rules he will be sanctioned.
Changing your role multiple times I don't think it's gamethrowing but it all depends on the context of the play. Still I don't think they will suspend it for that ... but who knows

[Brilliand]

Setting up a "maf win detector" that instantly grants Mafia the win if they have majority with no Mayor would help with the problem of Mafia getting majority too quickly... not by preventing it, but by removing the (relatively long) part of the game where mafia slowly and inevitably wins. Maf winning quickly is less of a problem if the Town can quickly try again.

[superdog551]

Setting up a "maf win detector" that instantly grants Mafia the win if they have majority with no Mayor would help with the problem of Mafia getting majority too quickly... not by preventing it, but by removing the (relatively long) part of the game where mafia slowly and inevitably wins. Maf winning quickly is less of a problem if the Town can quickly try again.

Not the greatest idea, Ive played a few games where maf lost even with majority so far. If jailor for whatever reason has not come out they can still kill the mafia, or if there is a vig or two, or a vet. An escort and a trans can turn the tide. Bodyguard can take out a killer and the other can be rbd/jailed. I think you get the idea, maf majority is not always a loss because there are hundreds of ways town can recover.

[DiamondRanger8]

Setting up a "maf win detector" that instantly grants Mafia the win if they have majority with no Mayor would help with the problem of Mafia getting majority too quickly... not by preventing it, but by removing the (relatively long) part of the game where mafia slowly and inevitably wins. Maf winning quickly is less of a problem if the Town can quickly try again.

This should be implemented, but not just after Mafia gets majority. They should just implement a more advanced draw detector that detects multiple different roles that decided if Mafia wins with Majority.

[OreCreeper]

Setting up a "maf win detector" that instantly grants Mafia the win if they have majority with no Mayor would help with the problem of Mafia getting majority too quickly... not by preventing it, but by removing the (relatively long) part of the game where mafia slowly and inevitably wins. Maf winning quickly is less of a problem if the Town can quickly try again.

That doesn't fix the problem, that just makes mafia win faster. No matter how many games are played, if a rolelist really does heavily favor a side (which I personally think the current one is pretty balanced if both town and maf play well), the average winrate will still favor that side. That's like saying if nk in the old list had the option to commit suicide n1, it would "fix" the "problem" of NK not winning most of the time because "they can just quickly try again".

[somepearskin]

I wish there was still a neutral killing role. I liked playing as it sometimes.

[lemonweather]

I absolutely do not like this role list at all even though I've been mafia the past few games. Neutral killing is an essential element of the game. Add this as a separate game mode and return the role list to normal (including new maf roles) please!

[orangeandblack5]

I wish there was still a neutral killing role. I liked playing as it sometimes.

Most people just left tbh

[Soulshade55r]

I wish there was still a neutral killing role. I liked playing as it sometimes.

Most people just left tbh

Yeah i dont know why everyone is a nk fan now but before it felt like nks were hated

[Brilliand]

Setting up a "maf win detector" that instantly grants Mafia the win if they have majority with no Mayor would help with the problem of Mafia getting majority too quickly... not by preventing it, but by removing the (relatively long) part of the game where mafia slowly and inevitably wins. Maf winning quickly is less of a problem if the Town can quickly try again.

That doesn't fix the problem, that just makes mafia win faster. No matter how many games are played, if a rolelist really does heavily favor a side (which I personally think the current one is pretty balanced if both town and maf play well), the average winrate will still favor that side. That's like saying if nk in the old list had the option to commit suicide n1, it would "fix" the "problem" of NK not winning most of the time because "they can just quickly try again".

I'm betting that if the Townies "try quickly again" rapid-fire, they'll quickly learn how to detect the Mafia trying to get a mislynch early on. It's definitely a strategy that can be detected and reversed into a near-instant Town win.

When the mafia get majority early, a huge amount of the game plays out in a stupid way, that would be foolish to try to learn from; and this can easily drown out the part of the game where making good decisions actually mattered, making it hard for people to learn from their mistakes.

It doesn't bear much resemblance to the idea of the NK getting to commit suicide N1; you picked a really bad analogy there. I'm talking about the team instantly losing immediately after making the mistake that directly caused them to lose, not before making such a mistake just because it's likely to happen.

[hkfrenchtoast]

Can BMG deal with all the Saint players? I know it has little to do with the patch, but it's getting to the point where they either throw or town throws by having them lynched D2. And in this rolelist, town has no way to come back if they were actually townies. I just want to get it out there, so BMG can perhaps try to do something about it (or make a buck by banning them so they have to buy new accounts. Either way's fine with me!).

[Soulshade55r]

Can BMG deal with all the Saint players? I know it has little to do with the patch, but it's getting to the point where they either throw or town throws by having them lynched D2. And in this rolelist, town has no way to come back if they were actually townies. I just want to get it out there, so BMG can perhaps try to do something about it (or make a buck by banning them so they have to buy new accounts. Either way's fine with me!).

I hate these "saints" they keep ruining ranked rn

[orangeandblack5]

I wish there was still a neutral killing role. I liked playing as it sometimes.

Most people just left tbh

Yeah i dont know why everyone is a nk fan now but before it felt like nks were hated

Because there are many people in the community and the ones who liked playing NK in Ranked had no reason to complain before

[MafiaxSK]

Hot take, TT has a balanced list except for Sheriff existing for no reason. Maybe use something similar to that?

Jailor
TI
TI
TK
TP
TS
RT
RT
RT
GF
Mafioso
RM
RM
Witch
NE or Jest/Exe

[Cookazoo2]

I wish there was still a neutral killing role. I liked playing as it sometimes.

Most people just left tbh

Yeah i dont know why everyone is a nk fan now but before it felt like nks were hated

Hated because of their "low win rate" because they're a high skill curve.

When you've got nobody to back you up on your lies it's hard to win, same thing with solo Maf.

But people don't complain about being the last Mafia standing in ranked, do they?

Really, it's not so much that there are more nk fans as there are now more vocal NK fans. And some people who were casually interested in NK and then that got taken away from them in all of the modes except classic.

Maybe that's the problem. Maybe no normal modes have a Neutral (Killing) slot. I mean, we have Serial Killer in classic and that's about it.

Sure, NK's a "chaotic" role but if I were naming the subalignments I'd change them to:

Neutral (Evil) - evil factions unto themselves: they can kill, and are opposed to Town, Coven, Mafia, and Vampires.
- Serial Killer
- Arsonist
- Werewolf
- Juggernaut

Neutral (Chaotic) - anti-factional
- Jester
- Executioner
- Witch (not Coven)

Neutral (Benign) - true neutral
- Amnesiac
- Survivor
- Guardian Angel (debatable but

Neutral (Power) - roles which shouldn't roll with the other groups
- Vampire (which should be its own faction)
- Pirate (could be put under Evil)
- Plaguebearer

And then rework the alignments from there.

TL;DR, NK is loved now because people have a reason to speak up.
The reason they're speaking up is because now you can't find the Arsonist or Werewolf in "Normal" modes anymore.
Nor can you find them in Dracs Palace.
Nor can you find them in Town Traitor.
You could find them in Rainbow but nobody plays it.
All Any is your only option (and it's fun but too chaotic to be ranked)

[lemonader666]

Witch is 100% anti-town, not anti-factional, leaving zero reason for the namechange
Jester is more true neutral than all the NBs
Executioner is anti-town at first but converts into either Jester or Survivor, and both are true neutral (Although I do not think survivor deserves to even exist as a role because Jester is just a better version of it)

[MafiaxSK]

Jester and survivor have completely opposite win conditions though

[kiromishiro21]

Hot take, TT has a balanced list except for Sheriff existing for no reason. Maybe use something similar to that?

Jailor
TI
TI
TK
TP
TS
RT
RT
RT
GF
Mafioso
RM
RM
Witch
NE or Jest/Exe

Many also thought the same, it would not be a bad idea
I would like you to try this

[Soulshade55r]

Witch is 100% anti-town, not anti-factional, leaving zero reason for the namechange
Jester is more true neutral than all the NBs
Executioner is anti-town at first but converts into either Jester or Survivor, and both are true neutral (Although I do not think survivor deserves to even exist as a role because Jester is just a better version of it)

Jesters way worse then survivor discourging lynching because someone is scummy shouldn't be a thing towns penalty for killing town is losing a member you don't need a role like jester to do that

I like survivor but I know it has problems

[Tislen]

This list me likey.

[Tislen]

EDIT: Grandmaster-ranked BTW, before anyone makes assumptions about me being "a casual".

Okay, I understand you're not casual but am I missing something? Was ranked updated to have a grandmaster ranking?

I personally like competitive lists but you've a strong argument that this game has way more players looking to play for fun lists than competitive ones, and that some ranked players (at least I) who are competitive are more concerned about the ELO system than the role list (save for no Mafioso)

[OreCreeper]

Witch is 100% anti-town, not anti-factional, leaving zero reason for the namechange
Jester is more true neutral than all the NBs
Executioner is anti-town at first but converts into either Jester or Survivor, and both are true neutral (Although I do not think survivor deserves to even exist as a role because Jester is just a better version of it)

Jesters way worse then survivor discourging lynching because someone is scummy shouldn't be a thing towns penalty for killing town is losing a member you don't need a role like jester to do that

I like survivor but I know it has problems

Yeah I kinda agree now that jester should be neutral chaos but exe should remain as neutral evil imo.

[Brilliand]

Yeah I kinda agree now that jester should be neutral chaos but exe should remain as neutral evil imo.

Executioner commonly transforms into Jester, so any slot that can spawn an Executioner winds up having a chance to spawn a Jester as well. That's a problem if the Jester and Executioner are placed in different categories.

[OreCreeper]

Yeah I kinda agree now that jester should be neutral chaos but exe should remain as neutral evil imo.

Executioner commonly transforms into Jester, so any slot that can spawn an Executioner winds up having a chance to spawn a Jester as well. That's a problem if the Jester and Executioner are placed in different categories.

The thing is though ranked kinda needs the possibility for executioner because otherwise any accusations would automatically get believed since mafia rarely pushes a 1 for 1 mislynch early.

[orangeandblack5]

In 10v5 they have more reason to do that though