Patch 3.3.0 Mafia Buffs and Ranked Season Ends

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Re: Patch 3.3.0 Mafia Buffs and Ranked Season Ends

Postby OreCreeper » Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:47 pm

MysticMismagius wrote:
Ezradekezra wrote:This is probably a lot for a small team of devs to come up with, so maybe there could be some sort of contest to implement the best community role ideas.
*slowly glances at TG*

Role Idea: *exists*

Devs: We don't do that here.
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Re: Patch 3.3.0 Mafia Buffs and Ranked Season Ends

Postby orangeandblack5 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:14 pm

tbf RI as a subforum is like 99.9% irredeemable trash

Seeing people's just abysmal Among Us role ideas has been a painful reminder of that
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SwampRabbit wrote:your idea is that no town should ever be able to confirm themselves as town.

that is the dumbest idea I think I have heard.

ElderSivart wrote:I'm confused as to why BMG made a UI for Pirate and not Hypnotist.

Sarah Thorpe wrote:Role Ideas is great for masochists.
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Re: Patch 3.3.0 Mafia Buffs and Ranked Season Ends

Postby Brilliand » Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:33 pm

orangeandblack5 wrote:tbf RI as a subforum is like 99.9% irredeemable trash


Yeah, but that's where the good stuff goes too, as an organizational rule.

Still quicker to ask people to recommend the best of RI than to invent new designs from scratch.
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Re: Patch 3.3.0 Mafia Buffs and Ranked Season Ends

Postby cmitc1 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:56 pm

forger looks pretty nasty ngl.


The only gripe I really have is spy still messes with people like framer pretty hard. frames until invested is a lot stronger, but i question if the possibility feeding a spy tons of information is worth it.
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Re: Patch 3.3.0 Mafia Buffs and Ranked Season Ends

Postby delaware22 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:00 am

orangeandblack5 wrote:@OreCreeper the fact that a lot of these buffs still only work again X out of Y roles is part of my concern?

I feel like it's been relatively common knowledge that Framer in particular is highly dependent on which TIs roll, and this buff does nothing to alleviate that. It's not the only one either, with Disguiser being another such role. I am concerned that some of these changes, while they are sure to increase Mafia's win rate, will add more frustration and more swing to the game, which could in some ways be a step backwards.

On the whole, I think the general direction is right, and that's really good, but some of the specifics concern me, especially because it feels like some of these ideas (permaframes in particular) have already been shown to be decently swingy/anticompetitive

Kinda feels like the Mayor whisper nerf in that regard? We'll see, maybe I'm just wrong

Yeah this is the only weird thing. Instead of Framer being the Anti-TI mafia it just counters sheriff even harder (and soft-counters invest), but sheriff wasn't exactly the strongest TI.
Disguiser and Framer together can counter every (classic) TI role, but it seems there's no guarantee maf rolls the right ones.

It would've been nicer if Framer was the Anti-TI and disguiser got its own niche, but still, this is a lot better than nothing.
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Re: Patch 3.3.0 Mafia Buffs and Ranked Season Ends

Postby OreCreeper » Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:12 am

delaware22 wrote:
orangeandblack5 wrote:@OreCreeper the fact that a lot of these buffs still only work again X out of Y roles is part of my concern?

I feel like it's been relatively common knowledge that Framer in particular is highly dependent on which TIs roll, and this buff does nothing to alleviate that. It's not the only one either, with Disguiser being another such role. I am concerned that some of these changes, while they are sure to increase Mafia's win rate, will add more frustration and more swing to the game, which could in some ways be a step backwards.

On the whole, I think the general direction is right, and that's really good, but some of the specifics concern me, especially because it feels like some of these ideas (permaframes in particular) have already been shown to be decently swingy/anticompetitive

Kinda feels like the Mayor whisper nerf in that regard? We'll see, maybe I'm just wrong

Yeah this is the only weird thing. Instead of Framer being the Anti-TI mafia it just counters sheriff even harder (and soft-counters invest), but sheriff wasn't exactly the strongest TI.
Disguiser and Framer together can counter every (classic) TI role, but it seems there's no guarantee maf rolls the right ones.

It would've been nicer if Framer was the Anti-TI and disguiser got its own niche, but still, this is a lot better than nothing.

You seem to be under the impression that disguiser counters spy, when in reality it works the other way around. Like I said, you aren't able to disguise the mafioso, if you do, spy will see no mafia visit on the mafia kill, so they can figure out who the mafioso is based on their list of mafia visits. Since disguiser can't disguise the MK, and can't disguise townies as mafia, the new disguiser is as good as useless with a spy around. I'm not really a fan of semi-permanent frames, to be honest, because it doesn't make the framer that much better if you think about it. It still gets countered by spies, and it still only affects 2 roles.
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Re: Patch 3.3.0 Mafia Buffs and Ranked Season Ends

Postby Brilliand » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:44 am

It isn't even clear that the Disguiser is any stronger than it was before, since its previous "fake roles in the graveyard" ability was given to the Forger (missing the fact that the Disguiser was for disguising Mafia as Town, while the new Forger is for disguising Town as other things... not the same niche).
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Re: Patch 3.3.0 Mafia Buffs and Ranked Season Ends

Postby Soulshade55r » Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:01 pm

Brilliand wrote:It isn't even clear that the Disguiser is any stronger than it was before, since its previous "fake roles in the graveyard" ability was given to the Forger (missing the fact that the Disguiser was for disguising Mafia as Town, while the new Forger is for disguising Town as other things... not the same niche).



Main thing is disguiser tricks all investigatives so it's actually genuinely pretty useful, it's just a bit complicated
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Re: Patch 3.3.0 Mafia Buffs and Ranked Season Ends

Postby OreCreeper » Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:54 pm

Soulshade55r wrote:
Brilliand wrote:It isn't even clear that the Disguiser is any stronger than it was before, since its previous "fake roles in the graveyard" ability was given to the Forger (missing the fact that the Disguiser was for disguising Mafia as Town, while the new Forger is for disguising Town as other things... not the same niche).



Main thing is disguiser tricks all investigatives so it's actually genuinely pretty useful, it's just a bit complicated

Disguiser right now, sure it can trick the investigator, but like I said, it's really dumb that disguiser cancels the mafia visit of the disguised mafia because sometimes that's really easy to tell.
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Re: Patch 3.3.0 Mafia Buffs and Ranked Season Ends

Postby Brilliand » Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:55 pm

Soulshade55r wrote:Main thing is disguiser tricks all investigatives so it's actually genuinely pretty useful, it's just a bit complicated


Yeah, the thing about that is it only messes with Lookout and Spy to a limited degree. The people caught visiting who they should be visiting can still be trusted (to not be any of about half the Mafia roles at least), and once the Town figures out that there's a Disguiser, the list of people visited by Mafia turns into a "suspicious people" list (since the Disguiser can't visit Town).

And of course, Disguiser still does nothing to Sheriff, Tracker or Psychic.
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Re: Patch 3.3.0 Mafia Buffs and Ranked Season Ends

Postby orangeandblack5 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:15 pm

tbf throwing Sheriff a bone is probably fine
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SwampRabbit wrote:your idea is that no town should ever be able to confirm themselves as town.

that is the dumbest idea I think I have heard.

ElderSivart wrote:I'm confused as to why BMG made a UI for Pirate and not Hypnotist.

Sarah Thorpe wrote:Role Ideas is great for masochists.
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Re: Patch 3.3.0 Mafia Buffs and Ranked Season Ends

Postby OreCreeper » Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:12 pm

orangeandblack5 wrote:tbf throwing Sheriff a bone is probably fine

Yeah sheriff is the worst TI rn.
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Re: Patch 3.3.0 Mafia Buffs and Ranked Season Ends

Postby Soulshade55r » Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:30 am

Brilliand wrote:
Soulshade55r wrote:Main thing is disguiser tricks all investigatives so it's actually genuinely pretty useful, it's just a bit complicated


Yeah, the thing about that is it only messes with Lookout and Spy to a limited degree. The people caught visiting who they should be visiting can still be trusted (to not be any of about half the Mafia roles at least), and once the Town figures out that there's a Disguiser, the list of people visited by Mafia turns into a "suspicious people" list (since the Disguiser can't visit Town).

And of course, Disguiser still does nothing to Sheriff, Tracker or Psychic.


No it makes mafia inno and changes invest results.

Anyway this is a problem with spy imo we definitely need a spy rework next I really hope BMG have realised the communites general dislike to this roles balance and fix it

But I like the Disguiser rework a all purpose tailor is good granted I think it could use some slight work.

With sheriff honestly it's underpowered, the only reasonable way of buffing sheriff would be hard imo.
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Spoiler: Town: Jailor
Mafia: Consort
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Re: Patch 3.3.0 Mafia Buffs and Ranked Season Ends

Postby orangeandblack5 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:52 am

Sheriff is underpowered because other things are stupid powerful lmao

On its own it's actually technically a strong role
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Spoiler:
SwampRabbit wrote:your idea is that no town should ever be able to confirm themselves as town.

that is the dumbest idea I think I have heard.

ElderSivart wrote:I'm confused as to why BMG made a UI for Pirate and not Hypnotist.

Sarah Thorpe wrote:Role Ideas is great for masochists.
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Re: Patch 3.3.0 Mafia Buffs and Ranked Season Ends

Postby Ezradekezra » Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:22 pm

Personally, I feel like Sheriff is perfectly fine as-is. I can't think of a way to buff the role without indirectly nerfing NKs by making them easier to out.
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Re: Patch 3.3.0 Mafia Buffs and Ranked Season Ends

Postby OreCreeper » Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:12 pm

Ezradekezra wrote:Personally, I feel like Sheriff is perfectly fine as-is. I can't think of a way to buff the role without indirectly nerfing NKs by making them easier to out.

No it's bad but yeah it's kinda hard to buff. Maybe make it so the sheriff removes a player's detection immunity but only to that particular sheriff upon checking them, so the next time they check that player if its a godfather or something they would show up as suspicious. It's not really that unbalanced since you have to waste 2 nights to confirm one townie as town when they can just end up dying.
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