OreCreeper wrote:Achilles wrote:Update on what we are working on and the plans for our next patch:
Lookout will be limited to seeing only 3 visiting roles per night.
Psychic will work the same but not have its alternating nights tied into full moon nights.
Lookout change seems unnecessary. I would rather just make LO an unique role so you don't get 4 lookout games since those can get annoying.
Neutral Killing Buffs
SerialKiller will not be stopped from attacking it's target by roleblocks. This allows for a double kill (the roleblocker and the SK target being attacked in the same night). Additionally when a SerialKiller kills a roleblocker, the last will of the roleblocker will be covered in blood, preventing it from being readable.
This is too broken lol, haven a potential 2 kpn for a role that can kill independently every night is ridiculously OP when coupled with the factional mafia nightkill. It can potentially make town lose majority by d2 in certain cases.
Arsonist will now passively gas douse anyone who visits them. Arsonist will also now get feedback about who is gas doused (similar to plaguebearer).
Please don't do that. The better way to fix arsonist is to just give it RB and control immunity/only when igniting, but make it also douse role-blockers. This also doesnt counter arsonist's biggest late game enemy- the consort, who can completely shut the arso down.
Werewolf - After night 4 every night will be a full moon night
Just make it so it gets Powerful defense on full-moon nights so it can bypass TPs. Werewolves usually dont live that long so this change affects very few ranked games.
Juggernaut - Juggernaut will now have basic defense. Rampaging and Unstoppable attack upgrades now require 1 less kill to unlock.
I've never played jugg before so not gonna judge this.
TheHats wrote:Stop trying to nerf town, *Since town has the most people they also should win the most*. 9/15 wins should be town in ranked. Thats a reasonable win rate for town. only 4/15 games should be won by mafia, and only 1/15 by NK. NE messes with it a bit but *town being able to win isn't a problem*
TheHats wrote:So on average people are supposed to *lose more games than they win* to combat elo inflation?
TheHats wrote:Stop trying to nerf town, *Since town has the most people they also should win the most*. 9/15 wins should be town in ranked. Thats a reasonable win rate for town. only 4/15 games should be won by mafia, and only 1/15 by NK. NE messes with it a bit but *town being able to win isn't a problem*
Achilles wrote:The Lookout change is intended to specifically counter the LO/jailor meta.
The goal of the NK buffs is to increase their KPN potential, making them a bigger threat since they are generally a 1 person faction.
The Psychic change is a non-change, it just isn't tied to full moon nights anymore so that WW transformations could be tweaked.
ViciousMalicious wrote:Why are you even asking feedback here? I bet half the people posting don't play ranked.
ViciousMalicious wrote:Lookout nerf is retarded, this is a social deduction game. Can't deduct shit when a role is nerfed like this.
GreekGodSudura wrote: Proportional winrates are for morons who demand participation trophies. Go home.
5/15 for all.
DFrenchBoi wrote:GreekGodSudura wrote: Proportional winrates are for morons who demand participation trophies. Go home.
5/15 for all.
What are you talking about? A proportional win rate makes each faction member have to play well or they're going to lose. Giving 1 person an equal chance of winning as 13 people (NE is excluded since their win conditions are different) is simply ridiculous. Also, developers, PLEASE take note about how much people have played the game when you look at suggestions. There is a clear trend of more experienced players opposing these buffs, and those with less experience supporting them. That in itself should tell you something.
HAWAIIANpikachu wrote:(Town's majority + Mafia's info vs NK literally being a minority with practically no info).
Brilliand wrote: Proportional winrates are thus sort of absurd, but the proportional mindset does make sense if you hedge it a bit. I'm fond of the idea of pushing the Town, Mafia and NK winrates toward 50%, 33% and 17%, respectively, as that has a nice mathematical relationship with proportional winrates, while not putting any one faction over 50%.
Brilliand wrote:HAWAIIANpikachu wrote:(Town's majority + Mafia's info vs NK literally being a minority with practically no info).
Nutty idea: Can we fix this by giving the NK even more info than the Mafia?
(Nah probably not.)
Brilliand wrote:ViciousMalicious wrote:Why are you even asking feedback here? I bet half the people posting don't play ranked.
This is where the people who spend all day arguing about the balance of various roles are.
Arguing with other interested people helps you gets a sense of what kind of change the game actually needs. Throwing your weight around by pointing out that you have more points than the other guy does not.
Brilliand wrote:ViciousMalicious wrote:Lookout nerf is retarded, this is a social deduction game. Can't deduct shit when a role is nerfed like this.
Social deduction ≠ mechanical deduction
I think you forgot the "social" part.
ydnnek wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but the discussion of "the win-rates for each faction" should depend on a few assumptions. For example, assume that a "normal" player whose skill is neither above-average nor below-average has a long-run average ELO gain of zero (this player seems to not be special at all, and never seems to neither decrease nor decrese their ran) then if we allow their win-rate to be 50% (provided ELO gains are tweaked to be a flat and equal increase/decrease), then setting (among an infinite number of choices) the winrate for NK to be 10%, mafia to be 16%, and town to be 74% then this will satisfy the "normal player" assumption.
(Here's something I just typed up quickly for the above argument. I assumed for ease of argument that the chances of rolling NK is 2/15 instead of 1/15: https://www.overleaf.com/read/vzsvzfcdcjnh).
I can't see why you can choose between a flat winrate for each faction or a proportional winrate for each faction without first assuming something on the ELO increases/decreases.
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