Game froze AGAIN, eating a scroll.

[SirKepi]

So sick and freaking tired of this BMG! You know about it and say you're going to fix it, but NOTHING has been done as yet! It's been like 3 months since I last reported it (with NO response from staff) and about 9 months since I first reported this issue, in which Jerme said there would be a fix THAT YEAR. That was LAST YEAR! I used a mafioso scroll tonight and the game froze, I waited about 30 seconds and just up and closed the game. I'm not spending another freaking penny on your game until you fix it. Yeah I'm pissed, this happens far too often. Seriously y'all are professionals and can't/won't fix a game-breaking bug? Come on BMG, I absolutely love this game and would love to buy more scrolls, but NOT until you fulfill your promise to fix this issue.

Sorry I'm so angry about this, but it's been happening for nearly a year and hasn't been fixed despite a staff member claiming a fix would be coming in 2018. I don't like throwing my money away for nothing, which is what's been happening with the game eating my scrolls when it freezes.

Here are the forum posts I mentioned:

3 months ago:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=96877&p=3090578#p3090578

And my favorite, the one from 9 months ago where Jerme said the following:

Thanks for your report. The freezes themselves are known and have been investigated. The resutl was that they were based on Flash-errors and its lack of a buffer to recover from even a very short disconnect. BEcause of that is a recode of the client in the works that is suspected to be released in this year.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=96877&p=3090578#p3090578

EDIT: I will admit it's been happening a bit less often (more like once every month or two instead of once every week or two) but it's still extremely frustrating.

[Jerme]

The new client is still not ready, yet, thus it has not been out.
The freezes are more caused by disconnects and the inability to restore the connection. This is a plan to tackle sometime after the new client is done, during that I highly suggest to use an ethernet cord, instead of WiFi.

[SirKepi]

Actually I'm on Ethernet. Have been for a couple years now. I can't really use WiFi here because there's something in the walls (copper pipes maybe?) that interfere with the signal, making it unreliable at best even 15 feet from the router since the signal has to go through a wall. Additionally, I have 300 mbps down, 30 mbps up bandwidth, the best available in my town and it's cable not DSL so it's extremely stable. I highly doubt the problem rests on my end. No offense or anything, it's just that I have Ethernet and a very fast/stable ISP, both of which kind of make me think that the problem isn't on my end.

[Jerme]

Freezes usually happen during a datasloss, or when you got kicked from the game, unless the server has issues, which would cause everyone to disconnect. Networkcommunication doesn't end with your home, but also continues about the travelling until it reaches the server. During that time there could have happened something.

[SirKepi]

As far as I'm aware I've never been kicked from a game. Also I'm aware that network communication doesn't end once the signal leaves my location. I just said I doubted the issue was on my end. Yes I'm aware the issue could be between, for instance, my ISP and the server's ISP. Or any location in between. My original post was only intended to alert staff that the issue is still happening, both as a heads up and to cover myself in case I happen to rack up a bunch of leaving hits over this, since I can't control when the game freezes or the signal is interrupted. Yes it's rarer than it once was, but since it's still happening (and in fact happened once again today) I figure it's better to be safe than sorry, especially since I don't know how many games one has to leave early in what kind of time frame to receive an automatic suspension. I'd just rather not be suspended over something that's beyond my control.

[Jerme]

A reconnection feature is planned to add, but its currently not first priority.

[SirKepi]

Well I just disconnected/froze AGAIN. Ate a jester scroll this time.

EDIT: Oh and I waited close to 5 minutes before closing the game this time since I was seeing what was on TV. Tried just leaving the game before closing the program and the leave game confirmation box just went away after I clicked the yes button but the game remained frozen.

[Jerme]

That means your client disconnected and thus does it remain unresponsive.

[SirKepi]

Just froze again, this time at the end of the naming phase, before role selection. First time I've seen it freeze there.

[Jerme]

Are you perhaps using WiFi? Have you tried using an ethernetcord?

[SirKepi]

Are you perhaps using WiFi? Have you tried using an ethernetcord?

My sincerest apologies for the late reply, I don't often check this thread. I already answered that question however:

Actually I'm on Ethernet. Have been for a couple years now. I can't really use WiFi here because there's something in the walls (copper pipes maybe?) that interfere with the signal, making it unreliable at best even 15 feet from the router since the signal has to go through a wall. Additionally, I have 300 mbps down, 30 mbps up bandwidth, the best available in my town and it's cable not DSL so it's extremely stable. I highly doubt the problem rests on my end. No offense or anything, it's just that I have Ethernet and a very fast/stable ISP, both of which kind of make me think that the problem isn't on my end.

Also the problem happened again recently. Can't remember if it was last night or earlier tonight, but I think it was last night. Sorry I can't provide a more detailed time/date than that, I didn't feel like reporting it at the time and my brain is somewhat fried right now.

[SirKepi]

Happened again. N3 this time, eating a veteran scroll.

[Jerme]

Does this happen on every game you play or randomly?
Have you checked your networktraffic when this happens?

[SirKepi]

Does this happen on every game you play or randomly?
Have you checked your networktraffic when this happens?

Randomly. The traffic on my local network aside from me is minimal, just two other computers besides mine, a couple of tablets and phones and a couple of other random things on an ultra high-speed network and as I've said a couple times now, I have the best internet package available in my town at 300 down/20 up bandwidth (I was mistaken before when I said I had 30 up, sorry about that). Given that both my network and my ISP can easily handle the load I highly doubt the problem lies with either my local network or my connection from my local network to my ISP. Pretty sure the problem is somewhere between my ISP and yours, or your ISP and your server(s). Not trying to point fingers, but like I said, I have the best tech available to me. Gigabit Ethernet (picked the Ethernet hubs/cables myself as I'm the tech guy in the house, so I know they're more than up to the job), 300 Mbps down, 20 Mbps up and only 3 computers and a couple of tablets and phones sharing the connection with a couple other random things like an Amazon Alexa thing. Because the traffic on the network is well within what the local network hardware (modem too by the way) can handle, as well as well within what my ISP can handle, I'm thinking that the problem does not lie on my end which makes me kind of think maybe the issue is somewhere else.

I regularly perform checks of my internet speed and connectivity at speedtest.net and while I haven't done one right around the time of a ToS freeze (nor in a couple months), I can tell you that every single one of my random checks (I do this because our last ISP was kinda dishonest and throttled our already very limited connection whenever they wanted) with my current ISP have come back positive, a bare minimum of 250 down/15 up even on a bad day and while I only use a local server here in Hawaii the ping is minimal as well, around 10 to 20 ms or so most of the time. By the way, our ISP is cable internet, not DSL so it's much faster and much more stable.

Also yes, my computer is more than capable of running ToS:
AMD Ryzen 5 1600X 6 core processor @ 3.6 Ghz
NVidia GeForce GTX 1060 with 6 GB RAM
16 GB DDR4 RAM
High-speed Ethernet port

Just ran a speed test at speedtest.net and here are the results (again this is not around the time of a ToS freeze):
Ping: 15 ms
Download: 353.28 Mbps
Upload: 23.36 Mbps

[SirKepi]

Just froze AGAIN, this time I was jailor (did NOT eat a scroll thankfully) and this time I ran a speed test to check my connection within 30 seconds of the freeze/disconnect.

Results from speedtest.net:

Ping: 14 ms
Download: 352.79 Mbps
Upload: 23.37 Mbps

Server is again here in Hawaii. However I changed it to AT&T in San Francisco (the furthest away it would let me) and here are the results, not too much worse than the above results, especially given the thousands of miles the signal had to travel:

Ping: 71 ms
Download: 213.36
Upload: 22.49

Not really sure how much other info I can give honestly. Clearly right around the time of the freeze/disconnect my network (because the local network is connected to my ISP and thus the internet via my router/modem) as well as my internet connection and my ISP were all working as intended, given that I pay for 300 down/20 up speed and I'm clearly close to or exceeding those numbers depending on the location of the test server.

Edit: It's still frozen nearly 10 minutes later, after I ran the tests and typed all of this up. Still waiting on that fix you said would be happening soon Jerme. Like the fix you promised would happen last year, see my original post. I'm not trying to be rude here, I just would like to point out that you did in fact say last year (and at this point nearly 1 year ago) that a fix would be implemented sometime in 2018. Here we are in AUGUST of 2019 and no fix yet. Again, not trying to be rude or point fingers, it's just extremely frustrating to say the least.

Edit 2: I just checked the links I provided in my original post and apparently you deleted the post that I quoted Jerme, the one where you said that a fix would happen in 2018. Way to sweep it under the rug. #Slowclap

[SirKepi]

Another freeze/disconnect today, this time it happened while I was in the pre-game lobby waiting for the match to fill up. Checked my internet speed (even figured out how to get a server to test on in New York) and it's comparable to what I listed in my previous post.

[SirKepi]

ANOTHER freeze/disconnect, making 3 in less than 12 hours (check the time stamps on my previous two posts and compare to the time stamp on this post)! This time it was D3 and I was medium. It did not eat a scroll. Checked my internet speed at speedtest.net again and guess what? Comparable to the previous results! Checked using a server here in Hawaii first, then one in Florida. So my internet is stable and functioning. Starting to get REALLY tired of this.

I'm not spending another penny on this game until SOME kind of fix is announced for this.

[Jerme]

The net speed is sometimes not mattering, when there are collisions or dataloss happening on the way the data travels to the servers in Texas. The lack of a buffer can make things quite hard.
A reconnection system is planned, yet there is at least one other thing that takes a higher priority (the new client).

[Flavorable]

Jerme, it seems to my humblest opinion that you are dodging his questions, and replying the same thing every single time.

That's not dodging, though. That is the only answer there is.

Just because it's not the answer people want, doesn't mean it's not the only answer we have.

[Emzycal]

This keeps happening to me, too. I (thankfully) haven't wasted money on scrolls, but I bet I'm wracking up reports for gamethrowing / suicides because of it. It's really frustrating, especially when you have an important role or a role you love playing to suddenly freeze and not be able to continue -.-

[SirKepi]

Just froze/disconnected FOUR TIMES in the last hour alone! Come on, I get that the new client might be a higher priority, but this is extremely annoying, especially when:

1. Jerme promised that a fix or some kind of reconnect feature would be implemented back in 2018. This was promised ONE YEAR AGO as of recently. Do the math in my original post on this thread. Yes I know it looks like I'm making it up since Jerme erased the post(s) promising such, which brings me to my next point.

2. Jerme deleted the post(s) promising a fix, probably so that it would look better for BMG. I get that it's probably in an attempt to make the situation look a little better, but I do know the truth and knowing the truth, it looks extremely shady and dishonest to do so. Sadly I have no proof of the original post since I figured I wouldn't have to screenshot it due to Jerme being a respectable member of BMG's staff, so I figured Jerme wouldn't go messing with things like that. Lesson learned, I'll be taking screenshots of EVERYTHING in this thread from now on.

3. While I'm not really active on the forums, I do keep up a bit with news on the updates to the Steam version of the game and haven't seen anything about a client update. I'm no programmer (a friend of mine is, however) but a year to work on a new client seems like a pretty long time.

4. It seems to me (and this is just my honest opinion) that the "new client" thing is a bit of a cop-out or an excuse of some kind. I could be entirely wrong about this however. If that is the case though, admitting that you're looking for and haven't found a fix for the disconnect issues would be much better than trying to cover it up.

5. Jerme asked for information regarding my network speed around a disconnect and after I provided that info, basically said that the info I provided didn't matter, see the following quotes:

Have you checked your networktraffic when this happens?

The net speed is sometimes not mattering, when there are collisions or dataloss happening on the way the data travels to the servers in Texas. The lack of a buffer can make things quite hard.

You can see there that Jerme asked for information, then when I provided it, said that the information that was requested and subsequently provided doesn't actually matter. Why ask for it if it doesn't actually matter?

6. Jerme kept trying to suggest that the problem was anywhere BUT the game's server(s), never even saying that it was at least POSSIBLE that the server might've had a problem or that there might be a problem with the game. Anything is possible when it comes to technology failing. Trust me, I know. That's why the saying "ghost in the machine" is a thing. You think the problem lies with one thing, when it lies with something completely different and in most ways something unrelated.

7. The fact that it's been a known bug for so long kinda suggests that you're either not sure how to fix it or you don't care about it. As I said, I get that other things might take priority, but what good is a flashy new client when people keep getting disconnected over and over on a regular basis? Honestly I think this should take priority.

I do understand that development teams have to set priorities and that the reconnect feature/disconnect fix might not be very high up on that list, I really do. However I hope you can see where I'm coming from here. I paid money for these scrolls and I know that spending money in the game doesn't entitle me to better treatment (nor would I expect as much, I paid that money for the scrolls and to help support the game, not for special treatment) however finally getting a role I have a scroll set for only to disconnect night 2 or day 3 is extremely disheartening and makes me feel like I'm just throwing my hard-earned money away. I don't make a lot of money, being a broke as a joke college student, so when I pay for something I expect it to work properly. Wouldn't you? I mean it's beyond frustrating at this point, being promised a fix for so long and being strung along and led by the nose hoping that a fix is right around the corner and never seeing one.

Jerme, it seems to my humblest opinion that you are dodging his questions, and replying the same thing every single time.

That's not dodging, though. That is the only answer there is.

Just because it's not the answer people want, doesn't mean it's not the only answer we have.

I get that Flavorable, I really do. But the fact that there isn't another answer doesn't mean that the problem doesn't exist, nor does it mean that the problem isn't extremely frustrating for us players. I hope you can understand that and see the issue from the side of the players as well. We're trying to enjoy the game and in some cases (like mine) we're giving you money out of the kindness of our hearts to help the game out and for over a year now this issue has still persisted and all we've seen are empty promises. I'm not saying it's intentional or anything, but it doesn't exactly look good from where I'm standing. Also while it's my opinion (and I could be entirely wrong here, Lord knows I have been before) that Jerme isn't dodging my questions, it does seem like the overall issue/bug IS being dodged here, which I think is what 8JazzyHands8 actually meant. It also seems like 8JazzyHands8 is correct about Jerme replying with the same thing every time, just look around on this very thread and you'll see that Jerme said a couple things more than once. Yes I get that you may not have another answer, but again I beg you to look at this from the viewpoint of us players. I also ask you to take a close look at everything I've pointed out in this post as well. When taken together can you see how it might look a little shady? Again, not saying it's intentional or even the case, but that's just how it looks in my opinion.

I'd like to conclude this by apologizing if anything I said came off as rude or combative or otherwise argumentative because that is FAR from my intent here. My intention when I made this thread was to cover myself should I happen to rack up enough leaves to warrant an automatic leaving suspension, as well as to make BMG aware once again of the problem with freezes/disconnects. My intention with this post in particular was to point out the things that I think look a bit off to me, as well as to answer Flavorable's reply. Nothing more, nothing less. No hostile intent here and if it is perceived as such then you have my humblest apologies, as again that was not my intent. I'm only trying to help.

[SirKepi]

Yet another freeze/disconnect, this time in the lobby during the naming phase. Performed a speed test at speedtest.net (which apparently makes zero difference, but Jerme DID ask what my network connection is like around the time of a freeze, then said it doesn't matter) with an AT&T server (because they're a huge communications company, so probably gonna have the best connection) in San Antonio, Texas because Jerme said the Town of Salem server(s) are in Texas, so one more variable eliminated in the test. While I may not be able to do a ton on my end, I'm still going to try to be as scientific about this as I can.

Here are the results that apparently don't matter, tested within 1 minute of a freeze/disconnect: https://imgur.com/2mxhGQ2

Notice the big numbers there? Alright the ping's a little high, but that's to be expected when travelling from Hawaii to Texas and back. Considering the distance, I'd say that's pretty decent actually. So, what do those big numbers mean exactly? That I'm CONNECTED to the internet and that connection is fast and stable! If there was anything unusual with my network around that time, or with my connection to my ISP, or with my ISP's connection to the internet, or with anything at all between my PC and the AT&T server(s) in San Antonio, there should be some anomalous readings there (excessively high ping, extremely low download/upload speeds), but there aren't. The ONLY thing I might call anomalous at all would be the download speed. Usually I get about 80-100 mbps more than what's displayed, but again take into account that the signal has to travel some 3,700 miles so I'd again say that's within reason.

So, what conclusion can I draw from this? That the problem does not lie with my PC, my network nor my ISP as Jerme has suggested. Could there still be a problem somewhere along the line there with one of those? Yeah it's POSSIBLE, but rather unlikely. Not trying to point fingers, but the EVIDENCE suggests that the problem lies somewhere else. Like maybe the Town of Salem server(s) and/or their connection? I'm not saying that's necessarily the case, but it looks more likely from the limited evidence I'm able to gather from really the only test I can perform as well as what I know about my PC, my network and my ISP. Oh and before you go saying again that it MUST be my network or the ISP, a couple things to please keep in mind:

1. I have the best bandwidth currently available in my area: 300 mbps down, 20 mbps up.
2. I administer the network in this house and ran all the Ethernet cables for it myself. I picked them all out, along with all the other equipment like router, modem, hubs, etc. I know they're more than up to the task of handling the limited load we put on them. We're talking gigabit speeds here. Super high-speed. Our network could handle at LEAST twice the load it does and that includes all of the cables, hubs, the router, the modem, everything.
3. My PC's specs, while not top of the line, are extremely good. AMD Ryzen 5 1600X 6-core processor @ 3.6 ghz, NVidia GeForce GTX 1060 GPU (6 GB DDR4 RAM), 16 GB DDR4 RAM @ 2400 mhz, high-speed Ethernet port. Way more than I need to play Town of Salem in ANY regard.

Now again, I'm not saying the problem MUST lie on your end. Just that all the evidence (ISP speed, network speed, PC specs, speedtest.net results) seems to indicate that the problem is LIKELY NOT on MY end. While I am pretty technically minded, I'm by no means an expert in anything computer related and even less so when it comes to anything IT related. I'm just going based on the evidence I have.

As I've said before I'm not trying to be rude or anything. I'm just covering myself in case I rack up enough leaves due to disconnects to get an automatic report, that way there's a clear history here that I've had connection issues. I never leave while alive if I can help it, even if I get a role I absolutely despise. I tough out the roles I don't like and leave as soon as I die. I'm also continually updating here in order to ask (or really at this point BEG) for the staff to either fix the issue, or at least work with your player base to keep us posted on efforts made to address the problem. I just want us players to be in the loop so to speak because it's an ongoing and rather frustrating problem (and one that was already known before I first reported it) that's persisted for a rather long time. What's the point in buying scrolls if it's just going to disconnect night 2, thus wasting the scroll I just used? Can you see why I might be a bit frustrated here? As I've stated before, I don't like throwing my very limited money away for nothing and it feels like this issue and anything related to it is just going around and around in a big circle and not really being addressed. Not saying that's necessarily the case, just saying that's how it feels to me, even if the mods have limited info and/or only one answer.

Sorry for the long posts as of late, but there was a lot to say. Hope staff takes the time to read and consider all the points I've made recently and I hope that maybe we can communicate about this problem a little more than what's been happening for the last year with this issue. I get that the mods might not have any more information (or another answer), but maybe you could pass along the small mountain of information I've provided to the developers? Who knows, it might prove helpful to them to see the speed test results around the time of a freeze/disconnect. As I said, I'd just like for the players to be kept in the loop. I'm also more than willing to help in any way I can with information from my side, as I've shown several times.

Hopefully some of the information I've provided can help in resolving this issue somehow! Please let me know if there's anything else I can provide that might be beneficial.

EDIT: Changed speedtest.com to speedtest.net as that was the site I used.

[SirKepi]

Guess what? ANOTHER disconnect. Why am I reporting it yet again? Because not only do I have evidence that I was indeed connected at the time, I WAS IN A DISCORD CALL WITH A FRIEND AT THE TIME! So I KNOW the problem was NOT on MY end. If it was a problem with MY internet connection, the Discord call would've dropped. It didn't. It didn't even glitch. So Jerme, there's your proof (which you asked for) that I was connected to the internet right at the time of a disconnect, since you asked what my network traffic was like around a disconnect. There you have it. Stable and functioning. An explanation would be nice.

Here's my screenshot. Sorry it's a bit hard to read the speedtest.net results (I wanted to include the in-game screen as well this time, so I had to have my browser on my secondary monitor), but I'll give them.

https://imgur.com/a/SdNsZGS

Ping: 93 ms
Download: 333.29 Mbps
Upload: 23.55 Mbps
Server: Sprint (yes, the communications company) in San Antonio, TX since Jerme said the Town of Salem server is located in Texas
Time: 12:15 AM
Date: 24 October, 2019

So WHEN is this going to be fixed? You've known about it for over a year and some players are even losing ratings and ranks over it, as shown in a thread that staff DELETED, which I happened to print out by the way, as I've done with this thread as well.

[Transcender]

You sure disconnect alot dont ya

[Jerme]

Many software that requires a net connection have a buffer, to stop small disconnects to tamper with the connection, yet ToS does not have one.