Town of Salem Game Forums

melanora wrote:

xUltiix wrote:

HalkInHunt wrote:I don't get why you don't change the role list

-coughs- the rolelist is balanced

But yes, I have a few ideas to change it before NFM 39. We're always changing the rolelist. Nothing new.

HalkInHunt wrote:I don't get why you don't change the role list

Jaegybomb wrote:How does RT work? Is there a 27% chance of TP rolling? Ultii told me my first game each catagory (TP, TS, TI, TK, cit) had an equal 20% chance of rolling first.

frop418 wrote:

destinycall wrote:

xUltiix wrote:@Ralozey consider my idea of making people take an IQ test before playing Vigilante



Every NFM since NFM35 has had a Vigilante and in both this one and NFM36 the vigilante put us in mylo

I regret nothing.

Destiny actually played that really well

Ralozey wrote:

xUltiix wrote:@Ralozey consider my idea of making people take an IQ test before playing Vigilante



Every NFM since NFM35 has had a Vigilante and in both this one and NFM36 the vigilante put us in mylo

I will consider this

destinycall wrote:Dragon, what do you think of the idea that xUltiix should be included as a possible target for the Escort tonight?

He is still my highest scumread based on his behavior on D1/D2 and he could be the Arsonist based on N1 night results. If he is roleblocked and there is no douse again tomorrow, he is most likely Arsonist and we have found a solid Scum suspect. If he is blocked and the Arsonist DOES douse, we can safely eliminate him as an Arso suspect. Either way, his roleblock would be at least as informative as a Sheriff check from a cc'd Sheriff claim.

It would also give frop418's Sheriff results greater weight if we can confirm Ultiix as Arso, since that would leave our other Sheriff as an un-cc'd TI.

destinycall wrote:Alright, so it is difficult to make clear plans until WildRaven's replacement arrives to shed light on the Doctor/Sheriff claim situation

In the meantime, I've been trying to wrap my head around the best case scenario as far as today's lynch and the night plan for our PR claims.

Since we probably have two scum in our Citizen pool and one scum in our PR claims, we could try tackling the Citizen pool today to narrow claim space and pin down our citizen claims. We don't have an Investigator/Lookout and our Sheriff claims are potentially scum, so we will need to be very careful with how we proceed.

Assuming we are lynching from the Citizen claims today, that would mean Dragonfire, EyesofCruz, BS4125, Exceen, Jaegybomb (Maxwell), and Vanquisher101 (SilentAssassin). Of this pool, I would be more inclined to lynch Exceen, BS4125, Jaegybomb or Vanquisher.

I need to go back and do more ISO reading when I get the opportunity, because a lot has happened and many of these players were previously NULL reads or Slight Scum/Town leans. All of my TOP scumreads for today are in our PR pool.

Honestly, if we were picking our most likely person to flip scum without considering roles, I would go with xUltiix. His behavior has been unrelentingly scummy from the start. But that may just be his playstyle. I don't know. At the very least, we should be cautious of any results he provides.

If I had to pick one person out of the Citizen pool, I'd probably go for BS4125.

Once we figure out a good lynch target, we will need to work out a night strategy for our PR claims. The Sheriffs present a difficult dilemma because if one (or both) Sheriffs are fake, their claims cannot be trusted. They might give a GREEN read to their mafia buddy or a RED read to a Town member. They are also both unable to catch the Arsonist by interrogation. I think the best plan is to give each Sheriff two different targets to check tonight. I recommend picking more than one target to prevent the Mafia from intentionally killing the true Sheriff's target or otherwise messing with the results. I'm not really sure how we confirm a true Sheriff in our current setup without risking a mislynch, so if anyone has any ideas, I'm open for suggestions.

Next we have the roleblocker. Again, I think we should suggest two or three Town oriented targets. If the Escort claim targets someone outside the agreed targets, that would pretty much confirm Consort. So long as the roleblocker continues to follow the Town's lead, then they are good. Personally, I think the priority for the roleblocker should be locking down the Arsonist. As I see it there are two primary suspects for Arsonist right now.

First Suspect - xUltiix.
He was roleblocked last night and no one claimed doused. That could mean that xUltiix is the Arsonist and couldn't douse anyone because of Escort. Preventing a potential Arsonist from dousing a victim (or confirming one of our PR claims is NOT arsonist) is worth losing another night of Sheriff results from xUltiix in my opinion.

Second Suspect - SilentAssassin/Vanquisher.
Silent never showed up after the Night Phase. It is possible that he did not submit a Night Action and that is why no one claimed doused. Because the Arsonist simply didn't douse. It is also possible that the Arsonist doused a dead person, but I feel like the odds of the Arsonist being one of these two suspects is stronger.

It MIGHT also be worth blocking EyesofCruz. Not because I think there's a big chance of him being Arsonist. BUT he is already confirmed Non-Mafia. If he is blocked and the Arsonist douses tonight, that means he would be LOCK town. Not sure how useful that is in the grand scheme of things, since I'd rather block the real Arsonist, but figured I'd mention him as a third candidate for RB on N2.

I would recommend that the Escort block any one of these players to test if they are the Arsonist. No douse tomorrow strongly suggests we found the real Arsonist.

If it turns out that WildRaven's Doctor claim was true, I think that his replacement should heal from the PR claims, whichever player is his highest Townread OR whoever he thinks is most likely to be attacked by the Mafia.

Exceen wrote:Erm. Raven was already force removed by Mela for pulling that move. - So..

Wildraven wrote:exceen and destiny working TOGETHER

they are SCUMS

BS4125 wrote:So, a lot has happened since I've been away. I haven't had time to read all of it and I'll create my reads later today but I did notice that Cheese claimed Escort which sends my theory down the drain (it was the only probable information so far so it was necessary to think that way). Also looks like the arguments are still boiling in here but people if you not careful you'll spoil the soup. But as I said, I have yet to read most of it to get any information but I still exist if anyone was worried about me, it's just gets in the way sometimes

destinycall wrote:I'm finally back home on my computer.

I'll be reading back over the day's posts to see what I may have missed or overlooked from earlier
----------------------------------------------

Okay ... here we go:

xUltiix wrote:I was going to check SilentAssassin.

If you don't mind my asking, why SilentAssassin? Did you see something that made you think Mafia? Who was your top scumread at the end of Day 1?

Wildraven wrote:destiny why are you defending exceen so much? i really start to think you might be a scum

Thanks, Raven. I love you too.

I have said before, I don't have a problem lynching Exceen if someone can build a decent case against him. Based on his ISOs, I see a few worrying associations with both frop418 and xUltiix, so if either of them were to flip as Mafia, I would consider him as a reasonable choice for the final Mafia member. However, it is hard to get much out of his ISO, despite its great length because the vast majority of his posts are focused on the "incident" and his perception of what went down. I don't like the way he repeatedly exaggerates and distorts the situation to make him appear to be even more of a victim than he actually was. And I don't like the way he has been pushing on Silent's empty slot. I'd be happy to see him as Scum because it would give us an easy lynch target for today that avoids all of our scum PR claimants. But I have an easier time seeing him as Town that has a huge chip on his shoulder rather than Scum that would waste this much time on a bad push. He also does occasionally post something that sounds genuinely Town-motivated, when he stops tunneling on Wild for a few minutes.

Exceen wrote:Destiny and frop. If you had to kill one PR claim right now? Who would it be?

I'm not asking Raven nor ultix as...Well. I figure they'll point the finger at each other.

Right now, it would be a toss-up between xUltiix and frop418. They are both claiming Sheriff. They are both kind of scummy. Neither of them brought us any good information last night. I don't like either of them for TI, but since it is a guaranteed slot, one of them must be the real TI. Unless we have a third TI claim. Frankly, I'm a bit frustrated that two experienced players have been playing in a way that makes it so hard for me to tell if EITHER of them are Town-aligned. .

I trust WildRaven's Doctor claim. Despite his rough edges and burning desire for Exceen's lynch, he has been consistent and fairly Town-motivated in his posting. I think he honestly believes Exceen is lock-Scum and that's why he has been pushing so hard on him. I see no reason to doubt he is a real Doctor.

I also trust TheCheddarCheese's Escort claim. First off, the existence of a roleblocker is confirmed independently by xUltiix. Secondly, I believe his explanation for why he chose xUltiix over other available options. It makes sense from a Town perspective and it lines up with his reads from D1. Lastly, I think if the Mafia had a Consort, they would claim Citizen rather that presenting themselves as Escort, so they could continue to block xUltiix despite his TI claim. And anyways, I just don't think it is very likely that the Mafia has a Consort.

I doubt that the Mafia has a Consort, based on the Framer being used for the kill on N1. This leads me to believe that the MS slot rolled a Consig/Agent, rather than Consort. And the last slot is probably a Mafioso who shadowed one of the investigative roles last night so they could both go PR-hunting. I'm basing this on the idea that if the MT slot rolled a Blackmailer, he would probably be the best choice to make the kill, since quite frankly the Blackmailer's night action is a bit rubbish (or at least it is highly situational). If the Mafia had a Consort/Mafioso, there should have been two roleblocks. AND if the Mafia had a Consort who could block self-heal/vesting, there were much better options that would have eliminated TP roles, rather than risking themselves on potentially lower-priority targets, like Eyes. Apparently they either missed completely or misunderstood his softing at the end of the Day 1.

Exceen wrote:But. You want to call my out as scum buddies...For doing exactly what you did for wild. Just realize where that sits you more or less. Especially since you suspect Ultix of Arso which means I'd be "Unable" to be scum buddies with him as arso is a singular role.

Yes Exceen. I want to call you out for "buddying" xUltiix and defending him just like I defended WildRaven earlier in the game. Exactly. That is exactly what I am saying right now. Do you not see why this is funny to me?

As for xUltiix being Arsonist versus Mafia, I prefer to keep an open mind when I scum-read people. Or town-read people. I like to keep an open mind about people in general. It allows me to continue to view their actions in a relatively unbiased manner and change my mind if their current behavior doesn't match up with my previous assumptions. I had a couple of reasons for suspecting xUltiix of being the Arsonist, not the least of which was due to his claim of roleblocked on a night when no one was doused by the Arsonist. It's actually a pretty reasonable concern which has not gone away just because he claimed a PR. He could be the Arsonist and he just wanted the roleblock lifted so he can start dousing people. Or he could be mafia who wants to be able to use his action tonight. Or he could be a scummy Sheriff. At this point, I'm still pinning things down.

destinycall wrote:@ xUltiix

Doused claiming means we can find the arsonist faster.

Dead arsonist = no dead townies.

That's better than leaving him alive and hoping for crosskills when he ignites.

But again, this is an argument that doesn't even matter in our current game. So I don't see the point in continuing it.

destinycall wrote:Alright. Thank you for answering my questions.

And I think we will have to agree to disagree regarding douse claiming. I've already shared my thoughts and reasoning. In fact, it is in that giant wall if anyone wants to re-read it. Not worth fighting over, considering we have a roleblocker in play.

destinycall wrote:Hey xUltiix - since you are no longer un-cc'd, would you mind looking at this giant wall and addressing my concerns. Currently I am having a hard time choosing between you and frop for most likely to be a real TI.

destinycall wrote:GIANT WALL INCOMING ...

Depending on how the rest of Day 2 goes, we may end up going for a different lynch candidate, but since xUltiix is topping my list of scummy players right now I decided to go ISO diving for some quotes that explain what I am thinking.

If he is Scum, hopefully this will let other folks see the same things I am seeing. If he is Town, maybe he can explain things in a way that makes some sense to me so I can go looking for scum elsewhere.

Spoiler:

infinitix wrote:

BS4125 wrote:Also

/vote Wildraven

Appears to be very scummy in the way he is acting and desperately wants a lynch. Plus went after me when I voted against him before, defensive about his role, maybe because it's rare and exciting (Mafia)

Anyone else see this as scum trying to quickhammer?

Also, wildraven may just be bad town, its kind of hard to read him due to him usually acting like a dumbass in all of his previous games. He is pretty much just mislynch bait and I doubt he is mafia however if he flips town, there is probably at least 2 scum on his wagon.

This first post was not especially bad, although I disagree with the idea that BS4125's vote on Wild was "scum trying to quickhammer". His assessment of WildRaven being easy mislynch bait is pretty much spot-on.
Putting him at close to L-1 looks like scum trying to QH, however I get that it is a NFM

infinitix wrote:

Dragonfire77111 wrote:I'd agree with it being a mistake tbh, whatever his alignment.

infinitix wrote:Also, wildraven may just be bad town, its kind of hard to read him due to him usually acting like a dumbass in all of his previous games. He is pretty much just mislynch bait and I doubt he is mafia however if he flips town, there is probably at least 2 scum on his wagon.

In his previous game, the votes piled on him extremely quickly. Here they've taken longer to pile up and people have been defending / townreading him throughout. I'd say he's got a fairly good chance of being mafia.

infinitix wrote:And I havent been following this game whatsoever, all I know is that wanting to quickhammer is scummy af and that wildraven is similar to STAA in that he is scummy no matter his alignment.
Someone give me the situation please

The difference between Wild and STAA is that STAA can play okay when he isn't being angry and toxic, whereas Wildraven seems to actually like being annoying and unhelpful (case in point: his other game, where he fakeclaimed BG as Citizen).

Anyway, the situation: I replaced in a few hours ago so I'm not the best person to ask, but from reading the thread it's quite clear that Wildraven's been scumming it up and causing significant controversy and debate among people. I'd recommend reading Wild's ISO and then reading page 9-10 and Exceen's case on Wild/destiny (since that's the only associative case that's been made so far).

I agree with all of these points except STAA being able to play well at all.
If he doesnt come on to defend, he is possible scum due to evasion by inactivity. While inactivity is NAI, evasion by inactivity is AI. It happens somewhat often (babyshock in a previous game) so we can hammer if he doesnt come to defend somewhat soon.

Now this one started off good, but then it went downhill pretty fast. I agree with the idea that lurking is more scummy than pure inactivity. There are a lot of reasons for people to be "inactive". Timezones exist. Real life is a thing. Sometimes it takes a full day for someone to check back in on the game and find out they have been put at L-2. Not responding immediately to being voted up isn't a sign of evasion. But skulking around the forums for a long time without posting is much more worrisome.

If he had stopped right there, I would be happy. But he kept going and added "so we can hammer if he doesn't come to defend somewhat soon". That doesn't sound like good Town play to me. At this point in the game, we were right in the middle of Day 1. We had about half the day left to go - roughly two full real-life days. There was no need to push a hammer on an "easy mislynch" before he even had the chance to log on and defend himself or make a hard claim.
You dont need all of the day to finish or discuss shit. That can be done in the next day after your town roles have also done their actions.

infinitix wrote:

destinycall wrote:

The Train will arrive in 120 Hours (Or 5 Days)
This will be on Jan 23rd 2017 5 PM UTC

I can't find the count-down timer, but we do still have over 24 hours left in the day.

Do not hammer early. Some people have not had an opportunity to comment today and there is now plenty of stuff to talk about.

If you are bored, make some reads, infinitix. Your slot has contributed very little so far.

I can definitely see a destinycall + Wildraven mafia team now.
My slot has contributed very little because I just started posting 2 hours ago.
If wildraven hasnt defended himself in lets say 6 or 7 hours we should hammer because while he has previously posted during those hours he is now not due to possible trying to end the day with a NL.
Wish I had image posting permissions on this account

When I pointed this out to him, his response was to call me Wild's scumbuddy and blow off my attempt to gather more content from his previously inactive slot.

Then he continued to push for an early hammer if wildraven didn't defend in the next "6 or 7 hours". Which sounds like plenty of time, until you realize that we still had 40+ hours on the clock to discuss and make plans. Even if Wild was confirmed scum, it would make sense to wait until closer to the end of the day before hammering his lynch. And xUltiix himself had previously stated that he felt it was unlikely for Wild to be mafia. Why rush a possible mislynch?
Because I didnt think wild was likely to be mafia, but evasion would make him very likely to be mafia. Also, for why me wanting to end the day doesnt mean anything, look at my previous statement

infinitix wrote:Wild I see you on other forums but not in here


Stop evading and defend yourself
Refrain from hardclaiming please

Why?

xUltiix, even if you ignore the rest of this wall, could you please answer this one question - why did you tell Wild to refrain from hardclaiming?
Because I wanted to avoid outing a PR if it was possible for him to defend without hardclaiming.

infinitix wrote:What about how you posted after death in 2 previous games?
Im actually really surprised you were allowed into this one
Anyway you are the only actually good lynch target, if you are town we can use your associations and TIs to find scum
/vote Wildraven
We have had plenty of discussion in the day and I will leave it up to someone else to hammer when they are also ready to end the day.
We arent in mylo unless we get a NFM36 vigilante.
I will also be requesting the Town Protective on me, and the Vigilante to shoot Destiny if wild flips mafia.

This whole post sounds like an excuse to lynch someone he doesn't believe is actually Scum. Maybe this is a personal vendetta between these two players. Maybe he didn't like his play in past games and wants to force a policy lynch. Any way I look at this, it doesn't look very Town-motivated. He wants Raven dead and he doesn't care if he flips Town. At the point when he placed this vote, WildRaven was at L-2 and Dragon had warned everyone to avoid placing any more votes on Wild in case the Mafia (or Wild himself) tried to quickhammer the day. This vote along with the comment "I will leave it up to someone else to hammer when they are also ready to end the day" just makes it very obvious that xUltiix was trying to force a quick-hammer. I suspect that he was expecting Wild to self-hammer. Again, this is really piss-poor behavior from a Town player and very scummy behavior in general. Even if he thought Wild was the best available lynch, it makes no sense to end the day so early ESPECIALLY when you consider that our town was very quiet and relatively inactive up to that point. Before the excitement around Exceen and Wildraven, we had very little to discuss. Now we actually had quite a bit to talk about and we were finally starting to see some assocations developing between players. Ending the day before everyone was done talking about what happened just doesn't make sense from a Town perspective. But it would be quite useful for Scum, who don't want Town to organize and gather more info.

FIRST REQUEST FOR TP
do i have to

infinitix wrote:

Dragonfire77111 wrote:/unvote

It's very interesting how Wild's behaviour has completely changed now that he's facing a lynch... I kinda like this new switch in attitude.


Also infinitix, are you an alt? I'm almost certain you are, and I'm almost certain I know whose alt it is

Yes this is an alt and im pretty certain you know who I am too

If there are other TP's, go on Wild. Wild, go on me. Lookout should be the only TI who goes on Wild, other TIs should go for their highest reads.

SECOND REQUEST FOR TP

infinitix wrote:We arent nolynching.
Lets have some pressure on someone else
/vote tardispaten

xUltiix - another question. Why did you select tardispaten for this pressure vote? Did you have a scumread on him? If so, what was it based upon? I'm just curious to know your reasoning.
Random choosing someone.

xUltiix wrote:And FYI one of the reasons I wanted to use my alt was because I was following the game and saw the town was doing so badly I didnt want to put it on my FM record

Towntell or fake Towntell? You decide.
Truth, not anything related to towntells.

xUltiix wrote:

TheBooty wrote:The metagaming is strong. Let's stop it at that.

Now that you're out of your cage, xUlti, how do you feel about Wild's Doctor claim and the resurgence of Exceen within the day(s)?

I dont like wild's doctor claim since we had a CC and he has been buddying up with destiny and he has been scummy and he has been flaming throughout the day rather than defending and playing properly- the list could go on however I dont want to lynch a PR claim d1


What do you mean by "resurgence of exceen"?

You don't want to lynch a PR ... or you don't want to admit to wanting to lynch a PR? Because it sounds like you really want to, but you know it would look bad to keep pushing on him now. But you really want to.
Not sure if that means anything about your alignment, since you could just really believe Wild deserves to die.

xUltiix wrote:I would like discussion to start

Wild stfu about your previous game grudges and play competently
Exceen you too

I am not willing to lynch either of you today so stop trying

Lets discuss something else

What are peoples thoughts on claiming doused or hypoclaiming?

This is one of the better Town-motivated posts I've read so far in xUltiix's ISO. Instead of adding to the tension, he is trying to redirect discussion onto something more useful. I wish there were more posts like this one.

xUltiix wrote:

destinycall wrote:

xUltiix wrote:With claiming doused, we can let mafia+arso crosskill and lose slower. They have the same targets.
We should not claim doused.
If anyone is rbed tomorrow, we should start claiming doused.
If a Lookout hypos someone visiting you and you are doused, you say so.

No. We should just all claim doused from the start.

What are the chances that the Mafia and Arsonist will hit the same person on different nights? How many times will that happen over the course of the game? Once or twice if we are really lucky. Maybe not at all. The odds of Mafia cross-killing multiple doused players is quite low, statistically-speaking, and there's a limited number of opportunities, since most games will be over after five or six nights (or even sooner).

If we don't claim from the beginning, we risk losing information about who was doused early in the game, which makes it more difficult to narrow down Arsonist suspects and increases the likelihood that the Arsonist will live long enough to ignite his victims. Even if we don't have a Lookout or Escort, there is value in knowing who has been targeted by the Arsonist and who has NOT been targeted. Sure, the Arsonist can fake-claim doused on himself, but in order to do that, it means losing a night of dousing or claiming doused when his night victim dies without claiming. Either way, he loses a douse and must hold off igniting to maintain his cover as a "doused" player.

Information that leads to the Arsonist is good for Town. Withholding it doesn't slow down the death toll enough to justify the cost, in my opinion.

Are you mafia?

Are you arso?

xUltiix wrote:Destiny + Wildraven are a scumteam imo.

Since Wildraven HC'ed doctor I would prefer to lynch Destiny, but it seems like doctor claims always turn out to be scum nfm36
/vote destiny

This vote was placed shortly after I posted my top town/scum reads and then logged off to do real life stuff for a while. One of my top scumreads was xUltiix. Coincidence?
Yes, coincidence, as you + wild being a scumteam was a theory by everyone not just me.

xUltiix wrote:We should lynch now as people have work/school tomorrow, including me and may not be able to vote.
I say we should lynch Destiny.
I am also requesting a Town Protective.

Again, he is pushing for a fast lynch. Again he wants to lynch before the lynch target has the opportunity to defend or claim. I let everyone know I was leaving for a short while. Why encourage people to LYNCH before I get back?
Any lynch is better than a nolynch, and it was possible that the day would be over before people had time to vote.
THIRD REQUEST FOR TP

xUltiix wrote:Claiming doused hurts town. If I am doused I will not claim doused and I encourage everyone else to not claim doused.

No it doesn't.
Yes it does.

xUltiix wrote:Olly has also been acting against his meta.
Anyone who votes for a NoLynch is scummy

/vote Olly
I swear to god if we nolynch today due to running out of time...

If there is one point to take away from all of this, it is that xUltiix really really wants someone to get lynched. And he wants his own personal TP.
Because nolynches are bad, you can always get information from a lynch even if they flip town

xUltiix wrote:Requesting a protective.

FOURTH REQUEST FOR TP
Because I was a Sheriff, possibly our only TI role? Leaving a NFM game up to scumreading is like asking for a loss

xUltiix wrote:Oshit thread locked


I messed up, dont twilight post from here on

Yeah. You totally didn't realize it was Twilight. That's why you made one more appeal for protection. Right.
Because I was a sheriff, and I actually didnt realize it was twilight.
Based on his behavior on Day 1, I'm inclined to believe xUltiix is the arsonist. I think all of his requests for protection were intended to reduce the chances of direct mafia attack and so he could lay the groundwork for a PR/Citizen claim later in the game. Baiting the Town Protective to you as Town is a pretty risky move for a real Town player. There are some situations where it is justified or useful, but it depends on the state of the game and generally not a good idea if you have not yet made a hard claim. There are a lot of ways that it can go wrong, since it draws the attention of Mafia/Arso by suggesting that you are worth protecting. If you are an unclaimed PR, you would be less likely to be targeted if you DON'T ask for protection, since no one knows that you are worth attacking. And if you are NOT worth protecting, you risk drawing the TP off worthy targets for no reason. If you didn't need to survive the night, you might be the reason why someone more valuable wasn't being guarded which is bad for Town.

It actually makes more sense as a scum tactic, especially in a NFM game where an inexperienced TP might be more likely to follow someone else's suggestion rather than choose a target based on their own reads. As the arsonist, xUltiix would want to avoid being attacked by mafia, since that would expose his night immunity AND decrease the number of night kills. He would only care about his personal survival, so risking other town players for his own benefit would be an upside. He also might be mafia, seeking to draw away the TP from more worthy targets or gain protection from the Arso/TK. With a possible Bodyguard in play, the Arsonist would be deterred from attacking him, in case tardis decided to guard xUltiix. And if it worked, then real Town would be left vulnerable for attack.

His scummy behavior, rushing to hammer, and weird TP requests all make me think scum. His strong opinions on no dousing suggest arsonist.
TP requests because I was possibly our only TI and I was the second most experienced players. My opinion on not claiming doused is because claiming doused hurts the fucking town.
However, if xUltiix is the arsonist and he did get roleblocked last night, then he is a lower priority threat compared with Mafia since he can't kill anyone tonight if no one is doused. So I'm not super interested in pushing for his lynch for today, assuming we can find another decent lynch target who has more chance of being mafia.

destinycall wrote:Hey xUltiix - since you are no longer un-cc'd, would you mind looking at this giant wall and addressing my concerns. Currently I am having a hard time choosing between you and frop for most likely to be a real TI.

destinycall wrote:GIANT WALL INCOMING ...

Depending on how the rest of Day 2 goes, we may end up going for a different lynch candidate, but since xUltiix is topping my list of scummy players right now I decided to go ISO diving for some quotes that explain what I am thinking.

If he is Scum, hopefully this will let other folks see the same things I am seeing. If he is Town, maybe he can explain things in a way that makes some sense to me so I can go looking for scum elsewhere.

Spoiler:

infinitix wrote:

BS4125 wrote:Also

/vote Wildraven

Appears to be very scummy in the way he is acting and desperately wants a lynch. Plus went after me when I voted against him before, defensive about his role, maybe because it's rare and exciting (Mafia)

Anyone else see this as scum trying to quickhammer?

Also, wildraven may just be bad town, its kind of hard to read him due to him usually acting like a dumbass in all of his previous games. He is pretty much just mislynch bait and I doubt he is mafia however if he flips town, there is probably at least 2 scum on his wagon.

This first post was not especially bad, although I disagree with the idea that BS4125's vote on Wild was "scum trying to quickhammer". His assessment of WildRaven being easy mislynch bait is pretty much spot-on.

infinitix wrote:

Dragonfire77111 wrote:I'd agree with it being a mistake tbh, whatever his alignment.

infinitix wrote:Also, wildraven may just be bad town, its kind of hard to read him due to him usually acting like a dumbass in all of his previous games. He is pretty much just mislynch bait and I doubt he is mafia however if he flips town, there is probably at least 2 scum on his wagon.

In his previous game, the votes piled on him extremely quickly. Here they've taken longer to pile up and people have been defending / townreading him throughout. I'd say he's got a fairly good chance of being mafia.

infinitix wrote:And I havent been following this game whatsoever, all I know is that wanting to quickhammer is scummy af and that wildraven is similar to STAA in that he is scummy no matter his alignment.
Someone give me the situation please

The difference between Wild and STAA is that STAA can play okay when he isn't being angry and toxic, whereas Wildraven seems to actually like being annoying and unhelpful (case in point: his other game, where he fakeclaimed BG as Citizen).

Anyway, the situation: I replaced in a few hours ago so I'm not the best person to ask, but from reading the thread it's quite clear that Wildraven's been scumming it up and causing significant controversy and debate among people. I'd recommend reading Wild's ISO and then reading page 9-10 and Exceen's case on Wild/destiny (since that's the only associative case that's been made so far).

I agree with all of these points except STAA being able to play well at all.
If he doesnt come on to defend, he is possible scum due to evasion by inactivity. While inactivity is NAI, evasion by inactivity is AI. It happens somewhat often (babyshock in a previous game) so we can hammer if he doesnt come to defend somewhat soon.

Now this one started off good, but then it went downhill pretty fast. I agree with the idea that lurking is more scummy than pure inactivity. There are a lot of reasons for people to be "inactive". Timezones exist. Real life is a thing. Sometimes it takes a full day for someone to check back in on the game and find out they have been put at L-2. Not responding immediately to being voted up isn't a sign of evasion. But skulking around the forums for a long time without posting is much more worrisome.

If he had stopped right there, I would be happy. But he kept going and added "so we can hammer if he doesn't come to defend somewhat soon". That doesn't sound like good Town play to me. At this point in the game, we were right in the middle of Day 1. We had about half the day left to go - roughly two full real-life days. There was no need to push a hammer on an "easy mislynch" before he even had the chance to log on and defend himself or make a hard claim.

infinitix wrote:

destinycall wrote:

The Train will arrive in 120 Hours (Or 5 Days)
This will be on Jan 23rd 2017 5 PM UTC

I can't find the count-down timer, but we do still have over 24 hours left in the day.

Do not hammer early. Some people have not had an opportunity to comment today and there is now plenty of stuff to talk about.

If you are bored, make some reads, infinitix. Your slot has contributed very little so far.

I can definitely see a destinycall + Wildraven mafia team now.
My slot has contributed very little because I just started posting 2 hours ago.
If wildraven hasnt defended himself in lets say 6 or 7 hours we should hammer because while he has previously posted during those hours he is now not due to possible trying to end the day with a NL.
Wish I had image posting permissions on this account

When I pointed this out to him, his response was to call me Wild's scumbuddy and blow off my attempt to gather more content from his previously inactive slot.

Then he continued to push for an early hammer if wildraven didn't defend in the next "6 or 7 hours". Which sounds like plenty of time, until you realize that we still had 40+ hours on the clock to discuss and make plans. Even if Wild was confirmed scum, it would make sense to wait until closer to the end of the day before hammering his lynch. And xUltiix himself had previously stated that he felt it was unlikely for Wild to be mafia. Why rush a possible mislynch?

infinitix wrote:Wild I see you on other forums but not in here


Stop evading and defend yourself
Refrain from hardclaiming please

Why?

xUltiix, even if you ignore the rest of this wall, could you please answer this one question - why did you tell Wild to refrain from hardclaiming?

infinitix wrote:What about how you posted after death in 2 previous games?
Im actually really surprised you were allowed into this one
Anyway you are the only actually good lynch target, if you are town we can use your associations and TIs to find scum
/vote Wildraven
We have had plenty of discussion in the day and I will leave it up to someone else to hammer when they are also ready to end the day.
We arent in mylo unless we get a NFM36 vigilante.
I will also be requesting the Town Protective on me, and the Vigilante to shoot Destiny if wild flips mafia.

This whole post sounds like an excuse to lynch someone he doesn't believe is actually Scum. Maybe this is a personal vendetta between these two players. Maybe he didn't like his play in past games and wants to force a policy lynch. Any way I look at this, it doesn't look very Town-motivated. He wants Raven dead and he doesn't care if he flips Town. At the point when he placed this vote, WildRaven was at L-2 and Dragon had warned everyone to avoid placing any more votes on Wild in case the Mafia (or Wild himself) tried to quickhammer the day. This vote along with the comment "I will leave it up to someone else to hammer when they are also ready to end the day" just makes it very obvious that xUltiix was trying to force a quick-hammer. I suspect that he was expecting Wild to self-hammer. Again, this is really piss-poor behavior from a Town player and very scummy behavior in general. Even if he thought Wild was the best available lynch, it makes no sense to end the day so early ESPECIALLY when you consider that our town was very quiet and relatively inactive up to that point. Before the excitement around Exceen and Wildraven, we had very little to discuss. Now we actually had quite a bit to talk about and we were finally starting to see some assocations developing between players. Ending the day before everyone was done talking about what happened just doesn't make sense from a Town perspective. But it would be quite useful for Scum, who don't want Town to organize and gather more info.

FIRST REQUEST FOR TP
do i have to

infinitix wrote:

Dragonfire77111 wrote:/unvote

It's very interesting how Wild's behaviour has completely changed now that he's facing a lynch... I kinda like this new switch in attitude.


Also infinitix, are you an alt? I'm almost certain you are, and I'm almost certain I know whose alt it is

Yes this is an alt and im pretty certain you know who I am too

If there are other TP's, go on Wild. Wild, go on me. Lookout should be the only TI who goes on Wild, other TIs should go for their highest reads.

SECOND REQUEST FOR TP

infinitix wrote:We arent nolynching.
Lets have some pressure on someone else
/vote tardispaten

xUltiix - another question. Why did you select tardispaten for this pressure vote? Did you have a scumread on him? If so, what was it based upon? I'm just curious to know your reasoning.

xUltiix wrote:And FYI one of the reasons I wanted to use my alt was because I was following the game and saw the town was doing so badly I didnt want to put it on my FM record

Towntell or fake Towntell? You decide.

xUltiix wrote:

TheBooty wrote:The metagaming is strong. Let's stop it at that.

Now that you're out of your cage, xUlti, how do you feel about Wild's Doctor claim and the resurgence of Exceen within the day(s)?

I dont like wild's doctor claim since we had a CC and he has been buddying up with destiny and he has been scummy and he has been flaming throughout the day rather than defending and playing properly- the list could go on however I dont want to lynch a PR claim d1


What do you mean by "resurgence of exceen"?

You don't want to lynch a PR ... or you don't want to admit to wanting to lynch a PR? Because it sounds like you really want to, but you know it would look bad to keep pushing on him now. But you really want to.
Not sure if that means anything about your alignment, since you could just really believe Wild deserves to die.

xUltiix wrote:I would like discussion to start

Wild stfu about your previous game grudges and play competently
Exceen you too

I am not willing to lynch either of you today so stop trying

Lets discuss something else

What are peoples thoughts on claiming doused or hypoclaiming?

This is one of the better Town-motivated posts I've read so far in xUltiix's ISO. Instead of adding to the tension, he is trying to redirect discussion onto something more useful. I wish there were more posts like this one.

xUltiix wrote:

destinycall wrote:

xUltiix wrote:With claiming doused, we can let mafia+arso crosskill and lose slower. They have the same targets.
We should not claim doused.
If anyone is rbed tomorrow, we should start claiming doused.
If a Lookout hypos someone visiting you and you are doused, you say so.

No. We should just all claim doused from the start.

What are the chances that the Mafia and Arsonist will hit the same person on different nights? How many times will that happen over the course of the game? Once or twice if we are really lucky. Maybe not at all. The odds of Mafia cross-killing multiple doused players is quite low, statistically-speaking, and there's a limited number of opportunities, since most games will be over after five or six nights (or even sooner).

If we don't claim from the beginning, we risk losing information about who was doused early in the game, which makes it more difficult to narrow down Arsonist suspects and increases the likelihood that the Arsonist will live long enough to ignite his victims. Even if we don't have a Lookout or Escort, there is value in knowing who has been targeted by the Arsonist and who has NOT been targeted. Sure, the Arsonist can fake-claim doused on himself, but in order to do that, it means losing a night of dousing or claiming doused when his night victim dies without claiming. Either way, he loses a douse and must hold off igniting to maintain his cover as a "doused" player.

Information that leads to the Arsonist is good for Town. Withholding it doesn't slow down the death toll enough to justify the cost, in my opinion.

Are you mafia?

Are you arso?

xUltiix wrote:Destiny + Wildraven are a scumteam imo.

Since Wildraven HC'ed doctor I would prefer to lynch Destiny, but it seems like doctor claims always turn out to be scum nfm36
/vote destiny

This vote was placed shortly after I posted my top town/scum reads and then logged off to do real life stuff for a while. One of my top scumreads was xUltiix. Coincidence?

xUltiix wrote:We should lynch now as people have work/school tomorrow, including me and may not be able to vote.
I say we should lynch Destiny.
I am also requesting a Town Protective.

Again, he is pushing for a fast lynch. Again he wants to lynch before the lynch target has the opportunity to defend or claim. I let everyone know I was leaving for a short while. Why encourage people to LYNCH before I get back?

THIRD REQUEST FOR TP

xUltiix wrote:Claiming doused hurts town. If I am doused I will not claim doused and I encourage everyone else to not claim doused.

No it doesn't.

xUltiix wrote:Olly has also been acting against his meta.
Anyone who votes for a NoLynch is scummy

/vote Olly
I swear to god if we nolynch today due to running out of time...

If there is one point to take away from all of this, it is that xUltiix really really wants someone to get lynched. And he wants his own personal TP.

xUltiix wrote:Requesting a protective.

FOURTH REQUEST FOR TP

xUltiix wrote:Oshit thread locked


I messed up, dont twilight post from here on

Yeah. You totally didn't realize it was Twilight. That's why you made one more appeal for protection. Right.

Based on his behavior on Day 1, I'm inclined to believe xUltiix is the arsonist. I think all of his requests for protection were intended to reduce the chances of direct mafia attack and so he could lay the groundwork for a PR/Citizen claim later in the game. Baiting the Town Protective to you as Town is a pretty risky move for a real Town player. There are some situations where it is justified or useful, but it depends on the state of the game and generally not a good idea if you have not yet made a hard claim. There are a lot of ways that it can go wrong, since it draws the attention of Mafia/Arso by suggesting that you are worth protecting. If you are an unclaimed PR, you would be less likely to be targeted if you DON'T ask for protection, since no one knows that you are worth attacking. And if you are NOT worth protecting, you risk drawing the TP off worthy targets for no reason. If you didn't need to survive the night, you might be the reason why someone more valuable wasn't being guarded which is bad for Town.

It actually makes more sense as a scum tactic, especially in a NFM game where an inexperienced TP might be more likely to follow someone else's suggestion rather than choose a target based on their own reads. As the arsonist, xUltiix would want to avoid being attacked by mafia, since that would expose his night immunity AND decrease the number of night kills. He would only care about his personal survival, so risking other town players for his own benefit would be an upside. He also might be mafia, seeking to draw away the TP from more worthy targets or gain protection from the Arso/TK. With a possible Bodyguard in play, the Arsonist would be deterred from attacking him, in case tardis decided to guard xUltiix. And if it worked, then real Town would be left vulnerable for attack.

His scummy behavior, rushing to hammer, and weird TP requests all make me think scum. His strong opinions on no dousing suggest arsonist.

However, if xUltiix is the arsonist and he did get roleblocked last night, then he is a lower priority threat compared with Mafia since he can't kill anyone tonight if no one is doused. So I'm not super interested in pushing for his lynch for today, assuming we can find another decent lynch target who has more chance of being mafia.

destinycall wrote:Hey xUltiix - since you are no longer un-cc'd, would you mind looking at this giant wall and addressing my concerns. Currently I am having a hard time choosing between you and frop for most likely to be a real TI.

destinycall wrote:GIANT WALL INCOMING ...

Depending on how the rest of Day 2 goes, we may end up going for a different lynch candidate, but since xUltiix is topping my list of scummy players right now I decided to go ISO diving for some quotes that explain what I am thinking.

If he is Scum, hopefully this will let other folks see the same things I am seeing. If he is Town, maybe he can explain things in a way that makes some sense to me so I can go looking for scum elsewhere.

Spoiler:

infinitix wrote:

BS4125 wrote:Also

/vote Wildraven

Appears to be very scummy in the way he is acting and desperately wants a lynch. Plus went after me when I voted against him before, defensive about his role, maybe because it's rare and exciting (Mafia)

Anyone else see this as scum trying to quickhammer?

Also, wildraven may just be bad town, its kind of hard to read him due to him usually acting like a dumbass in all of his previous games. He is pretty much just mislynch bait and I doubt he is mafia however if he flips town, there is probably at least 2 scum on his wagon.

This first post was not especially bad, although I disagree with the idea that BS4125's vote on Wild was "scum trying to quickhammer". His assessment of WildRaven being easy mislynch bait is pretty much spot-on.

infinitix wrote:

Dragonfire77111 wrote:I'd agree with it being a mistake tbh, whatever his alignment.

infinitix wrote:Also, wildraven may just be bad town, its kind of hard to read him due to him usually acting like a dumbass in all of his previous games. He is pretty much just mislynch bait and I doubt he is mafia however if he flips town, there is probably at least 2 scum on his wagon.

In his previous game, the votes piled on him extremely quickly. Here they've taken longer to pile up and people have been defending / townreading him throughout. I'd say he's got a fairly good chance of being mafia.

infinitix wrote:And I havent been following this game whatsoever, all I know is that wanting to quickhammer is scummy af and that wildraven is similar to STAA in that he is scummy no matter his alignment.
Someone give me the situation please

The difference between Wild and STAA is that STAA can play okay when he isn't being angry and toxic, whereas Wildraven seems to actually like being annoying and unhelpful (case in point: his other game, where he fakeclaimed BG as Citizen).

Anyway, the situation: I replaced in a few hours ago so I'm not the best person to ask, but from reading the thread it's quite clear that Wildraven's been scumming it up and causing significant controversy and debate among people. I'd recommend reading Wild's ISO and then reading page 9-10 and Exceen's case on Wild/destiny (since that's the only associative case that's been made so far).

I agree with all of these points except STAA being able to play well at all.
If he doesnt come on to defend, he is possible scum due to evasion by inactivity. While inactivity is NAI, evasion by inactivity is AI. It happens somewhat often (babyshock in a previous game) so we can hammer if he doesnt come to defend somewhat soon.

Now this one started off good, but then it went downhill pretty fast. I agree with the idea that lurking is more scummy than pure inactivity. There are a lot of reasons for people to be "inactive". Timezones exist. Real life is a thing. Sometimes it takes a full day for someone to check back in on the game and find out they have been put at L-2. Not responding immediately to being voted up isn't a sign of evasion. But skulking around the forums for a long time without posting is much more worrisome.

If he had stopped right there, I would be happy. But he kept going and added "so we can hammer if he doesn't come to defend somewhat soon". That doesn't sound like good Town play to me. At this point in the game, we were right in the middle of Day 1. We had about half the day left to go - roughly two full real-life days. There was no need to push a hammer on an "easy mislynch" before he even had the chance to log on and defend himself or make a hard claim.

infinitix wrote:

destinycall wrote:

The Train will arrive in 120 Hours (Or 5 Days)
This will be on Jan 23rd 2017 5 PM UTC

I can't find the count-down timer, but we do still have over 24 hours left in the day.

Do not hammer early. Some people have not had an opportunity to comment today and there is now plenty of stuff to talk about.

If you are bored, make some reads, infinitix. Your slot has contributed very little so far.

I can definitely see a destinycall + Wildraven mafia team now.
My slot has contributed very little because I just started posting 2 hours ago.
If wildraven hasnt defended himself in lets say 6 or 7 hours we should hammer because while he has previously posted during those hours he is now not due to possible trying to end the day with a NL.
Wish I had image posting permissions on this account

When I pointed this out to him, his response was to call me Wild's scumbuddy and blow off my attempt to gather more content from his previously inactive slot.

Then he continued to push for an early hammer if wildraven didn't defend in the next "6 or 7 hours". Which sounds like plenty of time, until you realize that we still had 40+ hours on the clock to discuss and make plans. Even if Wild was confirmed scum, it would make sense to wait until closer to the end of the day before hammering his lynch. And xUltiix himself had previously stated that he felt it was unlikely for Wild to be mafia. Why rush a possible mislynch?

infinitix wrote:Wild I see you on other forums but not in here


Stop evading and defend yourself
Refrain from hardclaiming please

Why?

xUltiix, even if you ignore the rest of this wall, could you please answer this one question - why did you tell Wild to refrain from hardclaiming?

infinitix wrote:What about how you posted after death in 2 previous games?
Im actually really surprised you were allowed into this one
Anyway you are the only actually good lynch target, if you are town we can use your associations and TIs to find scum
/vote Wildraven
We have had plenty of discussion in the day and I will leave it up to someone else to hammer when they are also ready to end the day.
We arent in mylo unless we get a NFM36 vigilante.
I will also be requesting the Town Protective on me, and the Vigilante to shoot Destiny if wild flips mafia.

This whole post sounds like an excuse to lynch someone he doesn't believe is actually Scum. Maybe this is a personal vendetta between these two players. Maybe he didn't like his play in past games and wants to force a policy lynch. Any way I look at this, it doesn't look very Town-motivated. He wants Raven dead and he doesn't care if he flips Town. At the point when he placed this vote, WildRaven was at L-2 and Dragon had warned everyone to avoid placing any more votes on Wild in case the Mafia (or Wild himself) tried to quickhammer the day. This vote along with the comment "I will leave it up to someone else to hammer when they are also ready to end the day" just makes it very obvious that xUltiix was trying to force a quick-hammer. I suspect that he was expecting Wild to self-hammer. Again, this is really piss-poor behavior from a Town player and very scummy behavior in general. Even if he thought Wild was the best available lynch, it makes no sense to end the day so early ESPECIALLY when you consider that our town was very quiet and relatively inactive up to that point. Before the excitement around Exceen and Wildraven, we had very little to discuss. Now we actually had quite a bit to talk about and we were finally starting to see some assocations developing between players. Ending the day before everyone was done talking about what happened just doesn't make sense from a Town perspective. But it would be quite useful for Scum, who don't want Town to organize and gather more info.

FIRST REQUEST FOR TP
do i have to

infinitix wrote:

Dragonfire77111 wrote:/unvote

It's very interesting how Wild's behaviour has completely changed now that he's facing a lynch... I kinda like this new switch in attitude.


Also infinitix, are you an alt? I'm almost certain you are, and I'm almost certain I know whose alt it is

Yes this is an alt and im pretty certain you know who I am too

If there are other TP's, go on Wild. Wild, go on me. Lookout should be the only TI who goes on Wild, other TIs should go for their highest reads.

SECOND REQUEST FOR TP

infinitix wrote:We arent nolynching.
Lets have some pressure on someone else
/vote tardispaten

xUltiix - another question. Why did you select tardispaten for this pressure vote? Did you have a scumread on him? If so, what was it based upon? I'm just curious to know your reasoning.

xUltiix wrote:And FYI one of the reasons I wanted to use my alt was because I was following the game and saw the town was doing so badly I didnt want to put it on my FM record

Towntell or fake Towntell? You decide.

xUltiix wrote:

TheBooty wrote:The metagaming is strong. Let's stop it at that.

Now that you're out of your cage, xUlti, how do you feel about Wild's Doctor claim and the resurgence of Exceen within the day(s)?

I dont like wild's doctor claim since we had a CC and he has been buddying up with destiny and he has been scummy and he has been flaming throughout the day rather than defending and playing properly- the list could go on however I dont want to lynch a PR claim d1


What do you mean by "resurgence of exceen"?

You don't want to lynch a PR ... or you don't want to admit to wanting to lynch a PR? Because it sounds like you really want to, but you know it would look bad to keep pushing on him now. But you really want to.
Not sure if that means anything about your alignment, since you could just really believe Wild deserves to die.

xUltiix wrote:I would like discussion to start

Wild stfu about your previous game grudges and play competently
Exceen you too

I am not willing to lynch either of you today so stop trying

Lets discuss something else

What are peoples thoughts on claiming doused or hypoclaiming?

This is one of the better Town-motivated posts I've read so far in xUltiix's ISO. Instead of adding to the tension, he is trying to redirect discussion onto something more useful. I wish there were more posts like this one.

xUltiix wrote:

destinycall wrote:

xUltiix wrote:With claiming doused, we can let mafia+arso crosskill and lose slower. They have the same targets.
We should not claim doused.
If anyone is rbed tomorrow, we should start claiming doused.
If a Lookout hypos someone visiting you and you are doused, you say so.

No. We should just all claim doused from the start.

What are the chances that the Mafia and Arsonist will hit the same person on different nights? How many times will that happen over the course of the game? Once or twice if we are really lucky. Maybe not at all. The odds of Mafia cross-killing multiple doused players is quite low, statistically-speaking, and there's a limited number of opportunities, since most games will be over after five or six nights (or even sooner).

If we don't claim from the beginning, we risk losing information about who was doused early in the game, which makes it more difficult to narrow down Arsonist suspects and increases the likelihood that the Arsonist will live long enough to ignite his victims. Even if we don't have a Lookout or Escort, there is value in knowing who has been targeted by the Arsonist and who has NOT been targeted. Sure, the Arsonist can fake-claim doused on himself, but in order to do that, it means losing a night of dousing or claiming doused when his night victim dies without claiming. Either way, he loses a douse and must hold off igniting to maintain his cover as a "doused" player.

Information that leads to the Arsonist is good for Town. Withholding it doesn't slow down the death toll enough to justify the cost, in my opinion.

Are you mafia?

Are you arso?

xUltiix wrote:Destiny + Wildraven are a scumteam imo.

Since Wildraven HC'ed doctor I would prefer to lynch Destiny, but it seems like doctor claims always turn out to be scum nfm36
/vote destiny

This vote was placed shortly after I posted my top town/scum reads and then logged off to do real life stuff for a while. One of my top scumreads was xUltiix. Coincidence?

xUltiix wrote:We should lynch now as people have work/school tomorrow, including me and may not be able to vote.
I say we should lynch Destiny.
I am also requesting a Town Protective.

Again, he is pushing for a fast lynch. Again he wants to lynch before the lynch target has the opportunity to defend or claim. I let everyone know I was leaving for a short while. Why encourage people to LYNCH before I get back?

THIRD REQUEST FOR TP

xUltiix wrote:Claiming doused hurts town. If I am doused I will not claim doused and I encourage everyone else to not claim doused.

No it doesn't.

xUltiix wrote:Olly has also been acting against his meta.
Anyone who votes for a NoLynch is scummy

/vote Olly
I swear to god if we nolynch today due to running out of time...

If there is one point to take away from all of this, it is that xUltiix really really wants someone to get lynched. And he wants his own personal TP.

xUltiix wrote:Requesting a protective.

FOURTH REQUEST FOR TP

xUltiix wrote:Oshit thread locked


I messed up, dont twilight post from here on

Yeah. You totally didn't realize it was Twilight. That's why you made one more appeal for protection. Right.

Based on his behavior on Day 1, I'm inclined to believe xUltiix is the arsonist. I think all of his requests for protection were intended to reduce the chances of direct mafia attack and so he could lay the groundwork for a PR/Citizen claim later in the game. Baiting the Town Protective to you as Town is a pretty risky move for a real Town player. There are some situations where it is justified or useful, but it depends on the state of the game and generally not a good idea if you have not yet made a hard claim. There are a lot of ways that it can go wrong, since it draws the attention of Mafia/Arso by suggesting that you are worth protecting. If you are an unclaimed PR, you would be less likely to be targeted if you DON'T ask for protection, since no one knows that you are worth attacking. And if you are NOT worth protecting, you risk drawing the TP off worthy targets for no reason. If you didn't need to survive the night, you might be the reason why someone more valuable wasn't being guarded which is bad for Town.

It actually makes more sense as a scum tactic, especially in a NFM game where an inexperienced TP might be more likely to follow someone else's suggestion rather than choose a target based on their own reads. As the arsonist, xUltiix would want to avoid being attacked by mafia, since that would expose his night immunity AND decrease the number of night kills. He would only care about his personal survival, so risking other town players for his own benefit would be an upside. He also might be mafia, seeking to draw away the TP from more worthy targets or gain protection from the Arso/TK. With a possible Bodyguard in play, the Arsonist would be deterred from attacking him, in case tardis decided to guard xUltiix. And if it worked, then real Town would be left vulnerable for attack.

His scummy behavior, rushing to hammer, and weird TP requests all make me think scum. His strong opinions on no dousing suggest arsonist.

However, if xUltiix is the arsonist and he did get roleblocked last night, then he is a lower priority threat compared with Mafia since he can't kill anyone tonight if no one is doused. So I'm not super interested in pushing for his lynch for today, assuming we can find another decent lynch target who has more chance of being mafia.

destinycall wrote:

xUltiix wrote:Exceen and Dragon are the two most helpful and actually trying to do something citizens.
Unless we have a third Sheriff with a red result on one of them, I am not willing to lynch either.

Destiny, stop with the shit, just tell us which TK you are. We need to know for night planning.

No.