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Return to: [Newcomer FM] NFM32 | Game Over [Town Wins!]

Re: [Newcomer FM] NFM32 | Day 1

TazmanianBrit wrote:Yeah it might be on my end. I had to quote the thing to see t. I don't know why its not working, I think its my phone


It is on your end.

Dama 8 Dragon, death, Wolf, Samuel, Top, Taz, Noodle, Jab
Blazin 1 lucias

9 votes needed for majority.
by Vannish
Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:46 pm
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: [Newcomer FM] NFM32 | Game Over [Town Wins!]
Replies: 1749
Views: 116782

Re: [Newcomer FM] NFM32 | Day 1

TheWolfBuddy wrote:does witch win after death in FM?

or would witch just hammer so scum could get an advantage if Dama reveals as a PR?

Assuming
A: Dama isn't witch
B: Dama reveals as a PR


PR?
by Vannish
Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:42 pm
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: [Newcomer FM] NFM32 | Game Over [Town Wins!]
Replies: 1749
Views: 116782

Re: [Newcomer FM] NFM32 | Day 1

I think Damafaud's defence was a bit lackluster and was just "let's accompany what others were doing and bring in a late scum read" but idk, I'd put him on a scum leaning now, so while I'm still a bit itchy about whether we should lynch day 1 or not, I completly understand if you want to go through with it. And indeed TheWolfBuddy, I think the best for Dama right now would be to claim a role and explain why he's acting the way he is.

Damafaud, review all people said they find scummy about you and explain why its not exactly the way we're seeing it, for now, your defence was really lackluster and I'm sure won't save you.
by Vannish
Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:41 pm
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: [Newcomer FM] NFM32 | Game Over [Town Wins!]
Replies: 1749
Views: 116782

Re: [Newcomer FM] NFM32 | Day 1

PAGEGET, I deserve 1 page too...
by Vannish
Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:59 am
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: [Newcomer FM] NFM32 | Game Over [Town Wins!]
Replies: 1749
Views: 116782

Re: [Newcomer FM] NFM32 | Day 1

Dragonfire77111 wrote:Triple post:

I read through Damafaud's previous game, NFM29, where he was a town Doctor, and it's quite interesting to compare that to this one:

Spoiler: - He supported a D1 no-lynch
- He didn't want to act without "solid evidence"
- He was against people claiming witched
- He constantly flip-flopped his opinions and sheeped votes
- He admitted to sheeping and said his posts were "scarce and suspicious"
- In his reads list, he described himself as "scummy town" and said he was "town that chats like scum"
- However, he did provide reasons for a scumread of his and analysed their posts
- He also tried to compare the behaviour of dead scum with the behaviour of living players, and correctly identified a scum from this


In this game so far:

Spoiler: - His posts look forced and fake, unlike NFM29
- After one of his posts garnered suspicion, he claimed it was a reaction-test to "purposely stimulate conversation and reads"; again, this looked really forced
- Similar to NFM29, he supported a D1 no-lynch
- Similar to NFM29, he declared that he was scummy and "people who claimed otherwise are scummy to me"
- He tried to defend himself by saying that there was no solid evidence against him and so that didn't warrant a lynch
- He tried to divert attention from himself and focus on the inactive people instead, while he was being suspected
- He kept implying that we would end up random-lynching or lynching with no evidence, and seemed not to believe that we could correctly hit scum (but in NFM29, scum was lynched on D1)


So, what have I learned from this meta-read?

- It seems that his desire for "solid evidence" and his constant referral to himself as "scummy" are not indications of him being scum, as he did these things as town too
- However, as town he was contributing (albeit only a little) and trying to join the scumhunt, whereas here he has only focused on inactive players
- The forced feel of his posts is absent in NFM29, and the so-called "reaction test" and diverting attention are scummier than anything he's done in that game.

Overall, I'm still happy with my vote where it is, but I'm more wary of those who are voting him for reasons such as "he's giving up as scum" (or without any reasons at all).


That is interesting, I don't have him in my scumread list because his strategy seems ... funny... it doesn't sound like a good strategy for scum, nor does it seem like a good strategy for town, it just seems non-sensical and suicidal, perhaps he wants to sound suspicious so scum doesn't kill him so he can, perhaps, continue whatever important role he may have? But that seems counter intuitive because while he keeps the scum out of him, it disturbs the town's readings and may end up with him getting lynched instead of killed.

Dragonfire77111 wrote:
Vannish wrote:By the way, thank you Dragonfire, I think I'm kind of starting to understand how the game works, its my first ever experience with forum mafia, so I was just kind of lost, and I was even a bit lazy to read and post in the beginning, I wasn't sure what I was supposed to say or do, especially in a Day 1, but I get it now, we interpret each others' posts, we try to make something out of it, we try to discuss what strategy will be best for the town and we try to make the scum slip in their own words. Because of this I understand why a lot of you may be reading me as slight scum, I was lazy to discuss, was confused and didn't know what to do so most of my posts were simply about discussions that were already over or that weren't really that meaningful to the town, so I can see why you may think that this was intentional and therefore scummy, but it was really just my lack of experience and understanding of how the game works in practice.

Thanks for this and your explained reads-list, you've now moved solidly into my leaning-town pool. Don't worry about seeming ignorant/confused, and if you have any queries about how the game works or whatever, feel free to ask us :) It's always good to see newer players learning the ropes and getting into FM.


No idea why you're thanking me, but no problem!

[quote="luciasimonetti"
Vannish – slight scum (or at least not pro-town). Their posts indicate not reading the thread or furthering the discussion. I can quote it if someone wants, but twice now they have asked essentially the same question that I asked and already had answered earlier in thread. Maybe it’s not scummy, but it shows that they are halfhearted in their efforts to help town.[/quote]

I was never half-hearted about helping the town but in reality I was just half-hearted about playing FM in general, when I got the PM for NFM32 I didn't even remember I had applied for FM anymore, but just went along with it anyways, that's why I wasn't particularly excited about reading like 10 pages of post on detail, plus I didn't even know it would be so important and so core to the game to actually discuss things like this on Day 1, I've explained this more deeply before, but I'm enjoying this now, and I should have a lot more free time, so I'll try to be more active and read more frequently so things don't pile up.
by Vannish
Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:52 am
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: [Newcomer FM] NFM32 | Game Over [Town Wins!]
Replies: 1749
Views: 116782

Re: [Newcomer FM] NFM32 | Day 1

I agree we should give Dama some time to defend himself but remember that the day is over soon-ish.

Ok my current list would be (and by the way this is by no particular order):

Lean Town:
Cenvil - Seems to be trying to contribute and bring fair points to the table, and shows worry about the town and the methods we should use
TheWolfBuddy - Probably one of the most active posters, especially in the beginning, while he does meme a lot he also contributes, and I don't think a scum would want to talk as much as him in fear of slipping or something.
TopkekeroniXX - I honestly don't remember why I placed him here, I should keep more notes, so I can't really explain this one.
TazmanianBrit - Brings rational points to the table that like Cenvil's show worry about the town and what methods we should use.
Forg - Generates discussion and is overall like TheWolfBuddy but less meme-y and more rational.
Dragonfire77111 - Forcing discussion and dismantling bs, which is good for the town.

Lean Scum:
Noodlelick - Talks a bit but brings nothing in
MichaelgRook - His post pool is quite small, so he still has a big chance to get out of my "scum-leaning list" but how easily he changed his opinion just makes it seem like he's trying to "fit in" and sound like "every other town"
DeathGhost12 - Is gradually bringing more stuff into the table, but he used to just talk a lot, say confusing and meaningless things

By the way, thank you Dragonfire, I think I'm kind of starting to understand how the game works, its my first ever experience with forum mafia, so I was just kind of lost, and I was even a bit lazy to read and post in the beginning, I wasn't sure what I was supposed to say or do, especially in a Day 1, but I get it now, we interpret each others' posts, we try to make something out of it, we try to discuss what strategy will be best for the town and we try to make the scum slip in their own words. Because of this I understand why a lot of you may be reading me as slight scum, I was lazy to discuss, was confused and didn't know what to do so most of my posts were simply about discussions that were already over or that weren't really that meaningful to the town, so I can see why you may think that this was intentional and therefore scummy, but it was really just my lack of experience and understanding of how the game works in practice.

And I did not remember that, but still, mafia/sk can hit witch and only 1 town will die that night, even if witch doesn't die.
by Vannish
Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:36 pm
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: [Newcomer FM] NFM32 | Game Over [Town Wins!]
Replies: 1749
Views: 116782

Re: [Newcomer FM] NFM32 | Day 1

Spoiler:
Dragonfire77111 wrote:
Vannish wrote:Yes, an overly agressive, brainless town would be a dead town too, no? I agree with lynching any other day, but I'm a bit reluctant about doing it day 1 unless its someone who is being quite obvious or slipped somehow.

About the witches, yes I know we've been through this, witches ARE immune to roleblocks here, just clarifying that they are in ToS too.

As Topkek said, we have been over this topic before. Many people have pointed out that the same is true for ToS and I have acknowledged that I was mistaken. Could you please stop bringing old issues up and actually read the thread?

Vannish wrote:Not the easiest thing for me to attempt to scumread people, some things like random lynching would give a very scummy vibe in ToS, but here it seems to be much more of a norm, so it confuses me. For now I don't think I have any definites but I have some people that seem to lean town, and others that seem to lean mafia

Lean Town:
Cenvil
TheWolfBuddy
TopkekeroniXX
TazmanianBrit

Lean Mafia:
Noodlelick
MichaelgRook
DeathGhost12

All others I either don't see anything that makes them lean either way, or I see things that makes me think they are both things.

Tbh I find your read list rather strange, much like Ralozey's but probably a bit less scummy. Why is Cenvil at the top of your townlist, and why do you townread him? Why do you have a scumread on Michael but not one on any of the other inactives? Why are more active people like Forg, myself and Lucia completely missed off? What about Damafaud?

Something about this reads list really rubs me the wrong way.


I am reading thread, and answering to things I see. I am bad at scumreading (even though I already gave my thoughts on who I think leans town/mafia) and don't really know what to say since its my first time around, but I need to keep talking so I don't get replaced, so I'm just answering stuff I see along the way.

Both Forg and Damafaud have things that make me think they may be town, things that make me think that they may be mafia, hence I can't properly give a guess on them, Lucia I've barely seen talking and what I've seen is quite neutral stuff that doesn't really make me think anything, you are starting to lean town, because while its annoying to me that you are complaining about what I say (answer already answered questions and stuff like that) I see how that makes sense (break up nonsense and create more discussion for the town) even if I'm terrible at doing the same.

(Since a lot of people seem to want more info about my reads I'll give it in a separate post, also after a bit more reading, Forg leans town too)

Spoiler:
Cenvil wrote:
Dragonfire77111 wrote:
Cenvil wrote:
Forg wrote:
TazmanianBrit wrote:I never said that I was against a day 1 lynch full stop. If anyone had bothered to read my other posts I mentioned that unless we find someone extremely scummy or someone seems to have scumslipped (no slight scum read targets just anything who's been acting extremely scummy) then we don't do a lynch day 1.

As for no lynching means extra discussion its true. When people start voting they only discuss that person up until the lynch so that's 2 irl days sometimes talking about the one person when we could coke up with a plan for the other nights as well. We have to plan ahead as well. So once wr have discussed all we can we talk about who the possible lynch targets are for the next day. We can do that every other day before the lynching starts but we have to plan ahead.

So are you not finding anyone scummy atm? Yes, it's not good to lynch town d1. But what if we get the witch,mafia, or sk d1? Is that also bad? All you people against d1 lynch need to chll, and look for scummy people anyways. Maybe we don't reach a consensus at the end of the day as to who is the most scummy. Maybe we do. But it would be nice to have something other than this "i don't wanna lynch d1 we can hit town".


Yeah, totally that was my reason....

Lynching mafia gives information not just to the town.
It gives information to the witch and SK as well...
It would be better if those two are in darkness as well, right now.

Sorry, what? You'd rather we didn't lynch mafia because it might benefit the witch and SK? If you're town, which I'm doubting now, you need to lynch all evil roles in order to win, yes that includes mafia. This, coupled with your earlier comment about the SK, is making me think you're mafia. Not scum in general, but specifically mafia.


I never said I dont want mafia lynched.
I said if we got lucky, and lynch mafia D1 we can(!)* learn much from associations, but mafia and SK still kill 2 town per night.
(*I still bad at scumreading so I dont believe I can do that.)
We cant hope that stage that Sk will attack mafia, because town will solve his problem with lynching.
worst case SK will attacked at most 1 times by mafia.(but very unlikely)

Most likely scenario:
1 mafia dead.
Everyone know around 2-3 one who defended them (assuming they are the mafia)
SK and witch know this as well.
N1 2 townie will die (ofc SK wont attack mafia)
D2 most likely the mafia will be in center, SK can be in distance or even accusing the mafias, getting himself high towncred. I dont think the town will/can do anything against that SK.
and if we are have bad luck 2 other townies will die at N2.

11 player left.
1 mafia 1 sk, 1 witch and the leftover are town. But this is true only if we get mafia with D1 and D2 in a row, what I dont believe . And we still dont know anything about SK, who might give you a nice comeback

D1 lynching a town.
We know some player who defended him (if they are) they wont be attacked. (They are either mafia or TP will be on them, maybe both)
N1 kills will most likely according what we got from D1.
D2 mafia will get other misslynch most likely.
N3 11 player left 5 scum and 6 town: MyLo if I am correct.

D1 lynching SK, we can focus on mafia. (And maybe witch) KPN will decreased, town will have more time.

D1 lynching Witch. (This scenario leans toward mafia)
The mafia can plan accordingly, and they wont risk that they vote/attack one of their scumbuddy.

So lynching scum D1 is not always the best for town, and maybe we cant do it anyway.

The scenario with D1 no lynch:
Town make his moves according to plan. (If we have any)
Sk/witch dont know who can be mafia. Might killing/controlling them (which is good for the town, right?)
And mafia has the chance attacking one of their buddies. (Which is good for town too, right?)

And my avoid lynch statement was for D1 only. We can learn the associations and the thinking of scums from SK kill/mafia kill as well.
(Without D1 lynch we can learn more from their kills btw)


I understand where you're coming from, but the scenario where we catch mafia D1 doesn't seem that bad, even if SK starts just killing town (which actually, he may hit witch, and mafia may hit witch/SK too, so its not necessarily 2 dead townies each day), in the scenario you presented it becomes 3 evils vs 8 town, which seems good, problem is if town is lynched, as you've shown.
by Vannish
Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:12 pm
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: [Newcomer FM] NFM32 | Game Over [Town Wins!]
Replies: 1749
Views: 116782

Re: [Newcomer FM] NFM32 | Day 1

With lean mafia I mean, lean scum in general. I keep forgetting to check my posts, I forget you can't edit here.
by Vannish
Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:25 pm
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: [Newcomer FM] NFM32 | Game Over [Town Wins!]
Replies: 1749
Views: 116782

Re: [Newcomer FM] NFM32 | Day 1

Not the easiest thing for me to attempt to scumread people, some things like random lynching would give a very scummy vibe in ToS, but here it seems to be much more of a norm, so it confuses me. For now I don't think I have any definites but I have some people that seem to lean town, and others that seem to lean mafia

Lean Town:
Cenvil
TheWolfBuddy
TopkekeroniXX
TazmanianBrit

Lean Mafia:
Noodlelick
MichaelgRook
DeathGhost12

All others I either don't see anything that makes them lean either way, or I see things that makes me think they are both things.
by Vannish
Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:23 pm
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: [Newcomer FM] NFM32 | Game Over [Town Wins!]
Replies: 1749
Views: 116782

Re: [Newcomer FM] NFM32 | Day 1

TopkekeroniXX wrote:
Vannish wrote:I did see your post, was that you who explained how lynching day 1 would result on a very early "Lynch or Lose" scenario? I think I still stand with you on no lynch day 1, but really seems like an issue people are split on. About witching however yeah, I see what you mean, and I've changed my mind, the town doesn't win that much by saying they were witched, and it allows the mafia to signal the witch, so maybe remaining silent about it is the way to go.

The thing that you need to remember is a passive town is a dead town.

Vannish wrote:Witches are immune to roleblocks in ToS too btw...

Dude, we've been over this. Are you reading the whole thread?

I suggest you read carefully and try to decide whose posts are town-motivated and who seems like they're trying to deceive or mislead town. When you have some scum reads, you might change your mind about the day 1 lynch. If you don't, you should explain why you think everyone is town.


Yes, an overly agressive, brainless town would be a dead town too, no? I agree with lynching any other day, but I'm a bit reluctant about doing it day 1 unless its someone who is being quite obvious or slipped somehow.

About the witches, yes I know we've been through this, witches ARE immune to roleblocks here, just clarifying that they are in ToS too.
by Vannish
Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:51 pm
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: [Newcomer FM] NFM32 | Game Over [Town Wins!]
Replies: 1749
Views: 116782

Re: [Newcomer FM] NFM32 | Day 1

Dragonfire77111 wrote:
TheWolfBuddy wrote:...

witch is immune to roleblocks...

what do you mean gambling that we don't get unlucky, they literally can't be 1/2 scum roles.

Wait, witches are immune to roleblocks? I don't think that's the case, it's not on ToS and I doubt it would be the case here. I'll have to go check the rolecards.

What do you mean "gambling that we don't get unlucky"? Did I say that somewhere, because I'm not sure I did (just looked at my ISO, and I can't find it anywhere).


Witches are immune to roleblocks in ToS too btw...
by Vannish
Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:40 pm
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: [Newcomer FM] NFM32 | Game Over [Town Wins!]
Replies: 1749
Views: 116782

Re: [Newcomer FM] NFM32 | Day 1

TazmanianBrit wrote:4. I'm against a day 1 lynch. I've already explained it like 3 fucking times and nobody seems to have acknowledged my posts so fuck it. If no one even acknowledges my thoughts and posts what's the fucking point of trying to contribute to the discussion. Another thing ill add is that voting isn't towns greatest weapon. Discussion is. No lynch day 1 means a lot more discussion time and more chance for scum to hit citizen and not a PR.

5. That's a definite no to claiming witched. If everyone stays quiet about the witch then there wont be any witch signalling from mafia and any signals would be easily noticed in peoples ISOs if there is something about a witch mentioned. I think any mention of the witch/what the witch couldve done at night should be stopped altogether until like day 3 or something I think. Just mentioning things about a possible witch night action can be signalling in itself.


I did see your post, was that you who explained how lynching day 1 would result on a very early "Lynch or Lose" scenario? I think I still stand with you on no lynch day 1, but really seems like an issue people are split on. About witching however yeah, I see what you mean, and I've changed my mind, the town doesn't win that much by saying they were witched, and it allows the mafia to signal the witch, so maybe remaining silent about it is the way to go.
by Vannish
Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:37 pm
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: [Newcomer FM] NFM32 | Game Over [Town Wins!]
Replies: 1749
Views: 116782

Re: [Newcomer FM] NFM32 | Day 1

1) What is your Mafia experience so far (Can include other sites and IRL)?
2) Do you enjoy playing as Mafia or Town more, and why?
3) What are your strengths and weaknesses when playing (Forum) Mafia?
4) What is your opinion on a Day 1 lynch?
5)What is your opinion on townies claiming witched if they were witched? Should or shouldn't they?

1) This is my first time
2) Since its my first time, I'm unsure, but since it seems similar to ToS and in ToS I vastly prefer to be town, I'd say town.
3) No idea yet.
4) Not really a fan of lynching without evidence
5) Why would they not claim witched?
by Vannish
Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:37 am
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: [Newcomer FM] NFM32 | Game Over [Town Wins!]
Replies: 1749
Views: 116782

Re: [Newcomer FM] NFM32 | Day 1

Well I guess you can try to read people, and we may have majority, but doesn't change the fact that we have no information. Regardless I only read a couple of posts directed at me... I'll try to read as much as I can during lunch in a bit.
by Vannish
Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:44 am
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: [Newcomer FM] NFM32 | Game Over [Town Wins!]
Replies: 1749
Views: 116782

Re: [Newcomer FM] NFM32 | Day 1

I don't see why we'd lynch someone Day 1, there's obviously a higher chance of hitting town than scum, its just non-sensical.
by Vannish
Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:19 pm
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: [Newcomer FM] NFM32 | Game Over [Town Wins!]
Replies: 1749
Views: 116782

Re: [Newcomer FM] NFM32 | Day 1

I still have to catch up to all your posts, but hi.
by Vannish
Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:41 pm
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: [Newcomer FM] NFM32 | Game Over [Town Wins!]
Replies: 1749
Views: 116782

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