When are we gonna fix disguiser?

[MoldyFeces]

Useless role, pretty sure it takes the title of being #1 at useless

Make it clean the targets LW or something

[ElderSivart]

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=53659

Disguiser (rework)
Probably the biggest and most important role balance change will be the Disguiser. The Disguiser role has had many problems ranging from last wills nullifying the roles usefulness to players using other names to break rules and make reporting more difficult and confusing. Thus we are completely reworking the role while keeping the theme of what the Disguiser is all about!

* The Disguiser will no longer take other players names, characters and positions
* The Disguiser can choose one player each night to Disguise as. If an Investigator checks the Disguiser that night the Investigator will see the results of the role the Disguiser selected.
* The Sheriff will still see the Disguiser as Mafia.
Example: Disguiser chooses to disguise as the player 1 who is the Sheriff. The Investigator will then see the investigative results of a Sheriff when checking the Disguiser that night.
* If the Disguiser is killed the night they disguise or lynched the following day, the role shown to the town (and on the graveyard list) will be the role of the player the Disguiser disguised as the previous night.
This is a pretty big meta change since the Disguiser will now have the ability to cast doubt on the graveyard list. It creates a new way for evil roles to deceive the town and adds a whole new layer of deception to the game!

[Hellpest]

http://blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=53659

Disguiser (rework)
Probably the biggest and most important role balance change will be the Disguiser. The Disguiser role has had many problems ranging from last wills nullifying the roles usefulness to players using other names to break rules and make reporting more difficult and confusing. Thus we are completely reworking the role while keeping the theme of what the Disguiser is all about!

* The Disguiser will no longer take other players names, characters and positions
* The Disguiser can choose one player each night to Disguise as. If an Investigator checks the Disguiser that night the Investigator will see the results of the role the Disguiser selected.
* The Sheriff will still see the Disguiser as Mafia.
Example: Disguiser chooses to disguise as the player 1 who is the Sheriff. The Investigator will then see the investigative results of a Sheriff when checking the Disguiser that night.
* If the Disguiser is killed the night they disguise or lynched the following day, the role shown to the town (and on the graveyard list) will be the role of the player the Disguiser disguised as the previous night.
This is a pretty big meta change since the Disguiser will now have the ability to cast doubt on the graveyard list. It creates a new way for evil roles to deceive the town and adds a whole new layer of deception to the game!

OH GOD NO PLEASE NO. WHY. NO. BAD.

This is shit. It requires either being investigated by an investigator or dying to a Vig/NK to actually do anything. A role that depends on a particular role not only being in play, but checking them at night, or instead being killed by only 1/2 select players, is ridiculous.

Gamethrowing will be pretty much impossible to check for or report, as the player could always be a Disguiser.

There's no way for the Disguiser to know who they are disguising as, meaning they have no idea what role to claim. Unless, of course, there is a Consig or BMer (because whispers), but that's no better that it is at the moment needing a Janitor/Forger. In fact, it's even worse, as this buffs both Consig and BMer, which are leaning on OP as it is, and nerfs Forger, which needs a buff.

[ElderSivart]

http://blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=53659

Disguiser (rework)
Probably the biggest and most important role balance change will be the Disguiser. The Disguiser role has had many problems ranging from last wills nullifying the roles usefulness to players using other names to break rules and make reporting more difficult and confusing. Thus we are completely reworking the role while keeping the theme of what the Disguiser is all about!

* The Disguiser will no longer take other players names, characters and positions
* The Disguiser can choose one player each night to Disguise as. If an Investigator checks the Disguiser that night the Investigator will see the results of the role the Disguiser selected.
* The Sheriff will still see the Disguiser as Mafia.
Example: Disguiser chooses to disguise as the player 1 who is the Sheriff. The Investigator will then see the investigative results of a Sheriff when checking the Disguiser that night.
* If the Disguiser is killed the night they disguise or lynched the following day, the role shown to the town (and on the graveyard list) will be the role of the player the Disguiser disguised as the previous night.
This is a pretty big meta change since the Disguiser will now have the ability to cast doubt on the graveyard list. It creates a new way for evil roles to deceive the town and adds a whole new layer of deception to the game!

OH GOD NO PLEASE NO. WHY. NO. BAD.

This is shit. It requires either being investigated by an investigator or dying to a Vig/NK to actually do anything. A role that depends on a particular role not only being in play, but checking them at night, or instead being killed by only 1/2 select players, is ridiculous.

Gamethrowing will be pretty much impossible to check for or report, as the player could always be a Disguiser.

There's no way for the Disguiser to know who they are disguising as, meaning they have no idea what role to claim. Unless, of course, there is a Consig or BMer (because whispers), but that's no better that it is at the moment needing a Janitor/Forger. In fact, it's even worse, as this buffs both Consig and BMer, which are leaning on OP as it is, and nerfs Forger, which needs a buff.

I agree it's probably less helpful than Framer, but it's a step in the right direction...
Disguiser goes from being entirely useless to almost entirely useless.

However, if a role list change makes there be 4 mafia every game (I personally think a 9v4v1+1evil is good instead of the 8v3v1+1+1evil+any we have now), and Consig/Disguiser pairs become something that happens fairly frequently, it could be a very good change.

It would've been better when pairings like BG/Jailor/Lookout existed, though.

[boysilver]

http://blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=53659

Disguiser (rework)
Probably the biggest and most important role balance change will be the Disguiser. The Disguiser role has had many problems ranging from last wills nullifying the roles usefulness to players using other names to break rules and make reporting more difficult and confusing. Thus we are completely reworking the role while keeping the theme of what the Disguiser is all about!

* The Disguiser will no longer take other players names, characters and positions
* The Disguiser can choose one player each night to Disguise as. If an Investigator checks the Disguiser that night the Investigator will see the results of the role the Disguiser selected.
* The Sheriff will still see the Disguiser as Mafia.
Example: Disguiser chooses to disguise as the player 1 who is the Sheriff. The Investigator will then see the investigative results of a Sheriff when checking the Disguiser that night.
* If the Disguiser is killed the night they disguise or lynched the following day, the role shown to the town (and on the graveyard list) will be the role of the player the Disguiser disguised as the previous night.
This is a pretty big meta change since the Disguiser will now have the ability to cast doubt on the graveyard list. It creates a new way for evil roles to deceive the town and adds a whole new layer of deception to the game!

Honestly I'm just glad there was SOME change to the role.

Useless role, pretty sure it takes the title of being #1 at useless

Remember, Survivor, Vamps and Mediums also exist....(my opinion)

[Hellpest]

http://blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=53659

Disguiser (rework)
Probably the biggest and most important role balance change will be the Disguiser. The Disguiser role has had many problems ranging from last wills nullifying the roles usefulness to players using other names to break rules and make reporting more difficult and confusing. Thus we are completely reworking the role while keeping the theme of what the Disguiser is all about!

* The Disguiser will no longer take other players names, characters and positions
* The Disguiser can choose one player each night to Disguise as. If an Investigator checks the Disguiser that night the Investigator will see the results of the role the Disguiser selected.
* The Sheriff will still see the Disguiser as Mafia.
Example: Disguiser chooses to disguise as the player 1 who is the Sheriff. The Investigator will then see the investigative results of a Sheriff when checking the Disguiser that night.
* If the Disguiser is killed the night they disguise or lynched the following day, the role shown to the town (and on the graveyard list) will be the role of the player the Disguiser disguised as the previous night.
This is a pretty big meta change since the Disguiser will now have the ability to cast doubt on the graveyard list. It creates a new way for evil roles to deceive the town and adds a whole new layer of deception to the game!

Honestly I'm just glad there was SOME change to the role.

Useless role, pretty sure it takes the title of being #1 at useless

Remember, Survivor, Vamps and Mediums also exist....(my opinion)

Better to have an extra vote than a role that encourages gamethrowing and needs to kill itself to do anything. The one or two players this Disg could get lynched still hurts town less than losing the player hurts mafia.

Also, Vamps have the highest winrate of all roles :/

[Sweekoon]

Also, Vamps have the highest winrate of all roles :/

Proof please

[Jezz92]

'Fix' disguiser, by throwing it far, far, away from anywhere remotely near Salem.

[twelvethousandants]

Spoiler: http://blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=53659

Disguiser (rework)
Probably the biggest and most important role balance change will be the Disguiser. The Disguiser role has had many problems ranging from last wills nullifying the roles usefulness to players using other names to break rules and make reporting more difficult and confusing. Thus we are completely reworking the role while keeping the theme of what the Disguiser is all about!

* The Disguiser will no longer take other players names, characters and positions
* The Disguiser can choose one player each night to Disguise as. If an Investigator checks the Disguiser that night the Investigator will see the results of the role the Disguiser selected.
* The Sheriff will still see the Disguiser as Mafia.
Example: Disguiser chooses to disguise as the player 1 who is the Sheriff. The Investigator will then see the investigative results of a Sheriff when checking the Disguiser that night.
* If the Disguiser is killed the night they disguise or lynched the following day, the role shown to the town (and on the graveyard list) will be the role of the player the Disguiser disguised as the previous night.
This is a pretty big meta change since the Disguiser will now have the ability to cast doubt on the graveyard list. It creates a new way for evil roles to deceive the town and adds a whole new layer of deception to the game!

OH GOD NO PLEASE NO. WHY. NO. BAD.

This is shit. It requires either being investigated by an investigator or dying to a Vig/NK to actually do anything. A role that depends on a particular role not only being in play, but checking them at night, or instead being killed by only 1/2 select players, is ridiculous.

Gamethrowing will be pretty much impossible to check for or report, as the player could always be a Disguiser.

There's no way for the Disguiser to know who they are disguising as, meaning they have no idea what role to claim. Unless, of course, there is a Consig or BMer (because whispers), but that's no better that it is at the moment needing a Janitor/Forger. In fact, it's even worse, as this buffs both Consig and BMer, which are leaning on OP as it is, and nerfs Forger, which needs a buff.

Well, I have to say that at least the disguiser does something other than sit around, waiting to get lynched.

It also means that visits no longer have to be stacked for the disguiser to do something (as before, you'd have to stack 3 mafia on 1 person to actually achieve something), which I believe slightly (not much, but slightly) nerfs the Spy (as well as the WW, but let's not talk about that); now it can be framer, consig or disguiser as a RM which vists every night.

It also means that, if a disguiser does die, its sacrifice actually benefits the mafia by revealing someone's role, as well as the mentioned messing up of the graveyard. It also means that there's the option for RM to claim they are actually a role, and that a player in the graveyard was actually a disguiser. I believe this could work particularly well with a forger, to make the "disguiser's" will blank.

Not as good as actually changing the ranked rolelist to stop being so Town-biased, but it does help a little.



And if reported, the Trials System can see all actions in any case.
Additionally, I can't say that this situation is very different from a disguiser successfully disguising - except for the fact that they can now actually use their ability instead of being a literal potato. This also isn't so different to a Forger forcing someone to leave a blank will.
If you want to complain about one, you have to complain about all of them.

> I have to say though, I agree with what you've said, and I don't know why BMG are still hanging on to Forger/Disguiser without giving them meaningful abilities that don't require highly specific conditions to work.

[Nellyfox]

All that was needed to fix disguiser was making its will show instead of the dead person's. I'm not sure why the devs completely ignored these suggestions.

[Facehunter66]

All that was needed to fix disguiser was making its will show instead of the dead person's. I'm not sure why the devs completely ignored these suggestions.

Because it would make the Forger and the Disguiser practically the same? No even better,the disguiser can randomly accuse people of being suspicious and quickly pick another guy to disguise at... it would turn from UP to OP.

[Hellpest]

Spoiler: http://blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=53659

Disguiser (rework)
Probably the biggest and most important role balance change will be the Disguiser. The Disguiser role has had many problems ranging from last wills nullifying the roles usefulness to players using other names to break rules and make reporting more difficult and confusing. Thus we are completely reworking the role while keeping the theme of what the Disguiser is all about!

* The Disguiser will no longer take other players names, characters and positions
* The Disguiser can choose one player each night to Disguise as. If an Investigator checks the Disguiser that night the Investigator will see the results of the role the Disguiser selected.
* The Sheriff will still see the Disguiser as Mafia.
Example: Disguiser chooses to disguise as the player 1 who is the Sheriff. The Investigator will then see the investigative results of a Sheriff when checking the Disguiser that night.
* If the Disguiser is killed the night they disguise or lynched the following day, the role shown to the town (and on the graveyard list) will be the role of the player the Disguiser disguised as the previous night.
This is a pretty big meta change since the Disguiser will now have the ability to cast doubt on the graveyard list. It creates a new way for evil roles to deceive the town and adds a whole new layer of deception to the game!

OH GOD NO PLEASE NO. WHY. NO. BAD.

This is shit. It requires either being investigated by an investigator or dying to a Vig/NK to actually do anything. A role that depends on a particular role not only being in play, but checking them at night, or instead being killed by only 1/2 select players, is ridiculous.

Gamethrowing will be pretty much impossible to check for or report, as the player could always be a Disguiser.

There's no way for the Disguiser to know who they are disguising as, meaning they have no idea what role to claim. Unless, of course, there is a Consig or BMer (because whispers), but that's no better that it is at the moment needing a Janitor/Forger. In fact, it's even worse, as this buffs both Consig and BMer, which are leaning on OP as it is, and nerfs Forger, which needs a buff.

Well, I have to say that at least the disguiser does something other than sit around, waiting to get lynched.

It also means that visits no longer have to be stacked for the disguiser to do something (as before, you'd have to stack 3 mafia on 1 person to actually achieve something), which I believe slightly (not much, but slightly) nerfs the Spy (as well as the WW, but let's not talk about that); now it can be framer, consig or disguiser as a RM which vists every night.

It also means that, if a disguiser does die, its sacrifice actually benefits the mafia by revealing someone's role, as well as the mentioned messing up of the graveyard. It also means that there's the option for RM to claim they are actually a role, and that a player in the graveyard was actually a disguiser. I believe this could work particularly well with a forger, to make the "disguiser's" will blank.

Not as good as actually changing the ranked rolelist to stop being so Town-biased, but it does help a little.



And if reported, the Trials System can see all actions in any case.
Additionally, I can't say that this situation is very different from a disguiser successfully disguising - except for the fact that they can now actually use their ability instead of being a literal potato. This also isn't so different to a Forger forcing someone to leave a blank will.
If you want to complain about one, you have to complain about all of them.

> I have to say though, I agree with what you've said, and I don't know why BMG are still hanging on to Forger/Disguiser without giving them meaningful abilities that don't require highly specific conditions to work.

As an active user of the trial system, I can tell you it really falls short on displaying player's roles. It only shows what role they were at the end of the game.

Also, this change doesn't make it anywhere near equal in power to Forger - whom is able to use their ability three times to confirm/cast doubt on any player (if played well), and can stay completely inconspicuous. This Disguiser, however, does nothing but give a slight hinderance to an investigator - which may not even be in the game - unless it is killed, in which case it will have about the same effect as a single forgery could. It's basically a Forger for noobs.

Although I do agree, that is better than being a potato.

(Ew, I used 'whom', I feel so pretentious now )

[Bspray]

I don't want disguiser to change :/ I kinda like it. If you get accused of being evil you can just change characters no be all good...

[twelvethousandants]

I don't want disguiser to change :/ I kinda like it. If you get accused of being evil you can just change characters no be all good...

Except that everyone would know that you switched characters, so you'd get lynched anyway.

Spoiler: http://blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=53659

Disguiser (rework)
Probably the biggest and most important role balance change will be the Disguiser. The Disguiser role has had many problems ranging from last wills nullifying the roles usefulness to players using other names to break rules and make reporting more difficult and confusing. Thus we are completely reworking the role while keeping the theme of what the Disguiser is all about!

* The Disguiser will no longer take other players names, characters and positions
* The Disguiser can choose one player each night to Disguise as. If an Investigator checks the Disguiser that night the Investigator will see the results of the role the Disguiser selected.
* The Sheriff will still see the Disguiser as Mafia.
Example: Disguiser chooses to disguise as the player 1 who is the Sheriff. The Investigator will then see the investigative results of a Sheriff when checking the Disguiser that night.
* If the Disguiser is killed the night they disguise or lynched the following day, the role shown to the town (and on the graveyard list) will be the role of the player the Disguiser disguised as the previous night.
This is a pretty big meta change since the Disguiser will now have the ability to cast doubt on the graveyard list. It creates a new way for evil roles to deceive the town and adds a whole new layer of deception to the game!

Spoiler: OH GOD NO PLEASE NO. WHY. NO. BAD.

This is shit. It requires either being investigated by an investigator or dying to a Vig/NK to actually do anything. A role that depends on a particular role not only being in play, but checking them at night, or instead being killed by only 1/2 select players, is ridiculous.

Gamethrowing will be pretty much impossible to check for or report, as the player could always be a Disguiser.

There's no way for the Disguiser to know who they are disguising as, meaning they have no idea what role to claim. Unless, of course, there is a Consig or BMer (because whispers), but that's no better that it is at the moment needing a Janitor/Forger. In fact, it's even worse, as this buffs both Consig and BMer, which are leaning on OP as it is, and nerfs Forger, which needs a buff.

Spoiler: Well, I have to say that at least the disguiser does something other than sit around, waiting to get lynched.

It also means that visits no longer have to be stacked for the disguiser to do something (as before, you'd have to stack 3 mafia on 1 person to actually achieve something), which I believe slightly (not much, but slightly) nerfs the Spy (as well as the WW, but let's not talk about that); now it can be framer, consig or disguiser as a RM which vists every night.

It also means that, if a disguiser does die, its sacrifice actually benefits the mafia by revealing someone's role, as well as the mentioned messing up of the graveyard. It also means that there's the option for RM to claim they are actually a role, and that a player in the graveyard was actually a disguiser. I believe this could work particularly well with a forger, to make the "disguiser's" will blank.

Not as good as actually changing the ranked rolelist to stop being so Town-biased, but it does help a little.



And if reported, the Trials System can see all actions in any case.
Additionally, I can't say that this situation is very different from a disguiser successfully disguising - except for the fact that they can now actually use their ability instead of being a literal potato. This also isn't so different to a Forger forcing someone to leave a blank will.
If you want to complain about one, you have to complain about all of them.

> I have to say though, I agree with what you've said, and I don't know why BMG are still hanging on to Forger/Disguiser without giving them meaningful abilities that don't require highly specific conditions to work.

As an active user of the trial system, I can tell you it really falls short on displaying player's roles. It only shows what role they were at the end of the game.

Also, this change doesn't make it anywhere near equal in power to Forger - whom is able to use their ability three times to confirm/cast doubt on any player (if played well), and can stay completely inconspicuous. This Disguiser, however, does nothing but give a slight hinderance to an investigator - which may not even be in the game - unless it is killed, in which case it will have about the same effect as a single forgery could. It's basically a Forger for noobs.

Although I do agree, that is better than being a potato.

(Ew, I used 'whom', I feel so pretentious now )

Gamethrowing will be pretty much impossible to check for or report, as the player could always be a Disguiser.

^^^
I compared it to the forger's ability in reference to this, since in that case forgers can also make it look like a Townie is gamethrowing in death, and that the Trial System can see night actions and whether they were a disguiser/forged.

Other than that, I agree - I'd take a forger over a disguiser any day.

[darkabsol]

Never, apparently.

[testaccount1234]

Never, apparently.

Man, reading the previous 13 replies sure sounds like hard work...

[darkabsol]

Never, apparently.

Man, reading the previous 13 replies sure sounds like hard work...

I know, it is really hard, almost as hard as distinguishing whether someone is being sarcastic or not.