1.5.9 discarded Transporter update coming in 1.6?

[LevinSnakesRise]

So thanks to this thread I was able to find this which is currently live on the PTR;


I personally hope this doesn't go live. If I'm not mistaken, most of us were against this? (Reference)

Apparently this has changed. Thoughts? Have any of you changed your minds between now and then? Should it be added? Should it be kept out? Should it be tested more before either decision is made?

EDIT: Please note that this may just be a left-over from the originally planned 1.5.9 update, and wasn't removed from PTR since. It doesn't mean it isn't going to be added sure-fire, but it's completely possible it might be getting added after all.

[Jezz92]

It doesn't do too much tbh. One thing it does do though is confirm the confusion behind investigator results.

For example if someone checked player 1 and it comes up with doc/disg/sk, then the next day it comes up with 'player 1 was swapped with player 2', invest will automatically know that player 2 is the doc/disg/sk rather than player 1, and this saves the invest from confusion without the transporter outing themselves or dying.

How it is now, a sheriff might call someone out as mafia, and then the transporter will come out and say 'oh no I swapped him with (name)', which basically reveals the identity of the transporter.

The change kind of helps town in this regard. Sure, evils can claim transporter and people will question real transporters when they claim but then town can just tell them who to swap that night.

[SpellChecker]

Another reference can be found here on this poll: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=55078

No way this change should be added. I think there should be other roles focused on, transporter is fine as it is.

[alex1234321]

Transports should be silent. We need less comfirmability, not more.

[Galaktik]

Why are the devs so insistent on adding this when it was quite clear the entire community hated the change?

This just really messes with the current meta and doesn't have any purpose.

[IndiguanaYT]

Transports should be silent. We need less comfirmability, not more.

Yeah, same opinion here. Gives evils another claim and can easily make a fake will if required. It would require outing yourself as transporter and keeping your will up to date, however, but a far better change than showing it to town.

[Julien8080]

Was this added back to the PTR, or did it ever leave?

I hope they don't keep it in, though. I thought the consensus was pretty clear that it was a bad idea.

And yes, transports should be silent. Yes, it would be a lot easier to claim Transporter, but it will make Transporter claims all that more suspicious. It's not like it's easy to make a will for it, even if transports are silent. Evils need more decent claims anyway - they can (kind of) safely claim only a few roles. Many of the other claims are huge gambles, and that limits you drastically if the meta you play in isn't developed enough for allies to know by experience exactly what you trying to do with a claim. I hope that last sentence made sense. In any case, more claimspace is good.

[oliebollen]

This definitely does not help the town at all (at least with how I play TP):

I do not transport N1. Then on D2 I check the chat on suspicious behavior, and if I find someone who is not in the spotlights but is evil in my eyes will get transported with myself. If I don't find anyone I just wait another day. This way the evils will find out really quick that this one player (myself (or did they take that out as well?)) keeps on getting transported with one of their own (or at least if I'm correct), and they will know that one player is transporter and will not be touched. Plus they know much easier that there is a transporter who is actively trying to get the mafia to kill themselves, which alters mafia strategy (but then again mafia is weak as is blabla upping winrate).

Personally I'd hate to see this actually get implemented, this will take out the 'surprise' factor out of the transporter.

[mdb1023]

This better not be a thing. Seriously, Transporters will insta confirm themselves with this. Having less confusion is not worth confirming a town role in one night!

[HereThereEverywhere]

I honestly don't see why this would even be considered. Sure, there's that itty bitty fact that Transporters cause a ton of chaos sometimes, but a good Transporter can and should reveal to clarify, all this does is buff an already strong role.

[cmitc1]

If the devs overruled majority opinion on this but are still refusing to remove Spoi's ability to read mafchat because of the poll votes, I'm going to be pissed.

lol same.

[Sting]

BMG don't anyway about what any of you mods think, they barely visit here unless they're pulling a PR stunt like they did when they want 'feedback" from the community.

This game would be dead without paid promotions, and from those paid promotions there are 9-10 year olds that BMG have to dumb the game down for. Unfortunately that is the reality is this. It shouldn't come as a shock that they're ignoring the educated part of the community that wish to complicate the game further and make more thought demanding strategies viable.

[Jezz92]

Just make transporter a unique role and/or make them unable to transport themself.

[HereThereEverywhere]

Just make transporter a unique role and/or make them unable to transport themself.

Unique would make silent transports a bit on the useless side, while it would limit confirmability, you couldn't reasonably claim it after the Trans dies. As for self-transporting, that's the only reason I like the role, but if it helps balance out the role then I guess it's for the best.


Also seeing a thread like this made by Naru kind of upsets me, because the Mods should probably be in-the-know on this stuff. I'm gonna assume they just forgot to change it or something stupid though.

[Jezz92]

As for self-transporting, that's the only reason I like the role, but if it helps balance out the role then I guess it's for the best.

I like being able to self transport too, admittedly.
But keep in mind that the transporter being able to transport himself means he has unlimited self protection. Doctor and bodyguard, the actual TP roles, don't even have that, they can both only save themselves once whereas a transporter literally doesn't have to rely on anyone to save him.

[alex1234321]

Self transports need to be abolished, no question. Not even one self transport, as it's not a protective.

Silent transports for removal of confirmability. It would actually be a pretty god-tier fakeclaim afterwards, which is necessary for such a powerful role, even after being Bayonetta-nerfed.

No transporting jester's guilt either, and don't forger the car crash idea.

Also, if possible and without breaking the OoO, make transports able to be roleblocked.

This here

Transporter should be fakeclaimable and should not be protective.

[HereThereEverywhere]

For as long as I can remember, I've never seen a suggestion to make Trans into a protective role, is there any real reason? Like, even if it's a bad idea I can't remember once I've seen it suggested at all.

[Jezz92]

Also people who think silent transports will 'mess up' the town even more - don't you realise that random transporting isn't a good strategy anyway (yes I've known to random transport but still)?

[Julien8080]

Self transports need to be abolished, no question. Not even one self transport, as it's not a protective.

Silent transports for removal of confirmability. It would actually be a pretty god-tier fakeclaim afterwards, which is necessary for such a powerful role, even after being Bayonetta-nerfed.

No transporting jester's guilt either, and don't forger the car crash idea.

Also, if possible and without breaking the OoO, make transports able to be roleblocked.

I think making transports silent and unable to transport Jester guilt would be enough of a nerf. I'm iffy on the self transport thing.

Also, the car crash idea?

[LevinSnakesRise]

If you get rid of self-transport, you will no longer get the auto-wins handed to Mafia and Town, but to all Mafia.

Keep that in mind, as the stalemate detector factors that in before handing a win.

[LevinSnakesRise]

The current situation is that Town wins, and the situation I'm proposing is that mafia wins, as he Mafia can kill the transporter directly.

Why is this a problem?

Because the self-transport gives Town a chance to win when it's Mafioso vs Transporter, and not when it's Godfather vs Transporter?

Let's not have this discussion for the upteenth time here, as there's been countless threads over countless months as to why the stalemate detector is setup this way.

[LevinSnakesRise]

However, if you get rid of Transporter's ability to self-transport, which the stalemate detector currently is based off of for those situations, both situations will result in a Mafia win, as there's no reason to remove the ability to self-teleport, even as just one of the two, and still keep the stalemate detector giving wins to the Transporter for surviving when they lost the ability to do so. That's a free win that wouldn't make sense anymore.

I hope I explained that clearly enough. I literally just woke up and need to be going back to sleep soon.

[orangeandblack5]

The solution here is to fix the stalemate detector as well, then.

^duh

[Myersvandalay]

The one thing I would point out here, while I massively oppose this change if it comes out.

IF bmg wanted this particular change to be implimented, without appearing to oppose the majority opinion, all they'd have to do is add a new poll, and link it in game.

This poll for transporters was 63 for, 17 against.

The spy poll was 7,800 against, 1700 for.

Do you really think the results would be the same if they re-did the poll with it advertised in game? The difference in participation makes it very clear that people who read the forums and pay attention to things, are litterally less than 1% of what would vote in an official poll, and very likely very very unrepresentative fo the masses.

[Julien8080]

The one thing I would point out here, while I massively oppose this change if it comes out.

IF bmg wanted this particular change to be implimented, without appearing to oppose the majority opinion, all they'd have to do is add a new poll, and link it in game.

This poll for transporters was 63 for, 17 against.

The spy poll was 7,800 against, 1700 for.

Do you really think the results would be the same if they re-did the poll with it advertised in game? The difference in participation makes it very clear that people who read the forums and pay attention to things, are litterally less than 1% of what would vote in an official poll, and very likely very very unrepresentative fo the masses.

Yeah, many of those people refuse to look past "A Transporter once made me mix up my Invest results and didn't say so, therefore it's a terrible role and should be changed." Which is, of course, the problem.

I sound like an elitist douche, but shouldn't the people who clearly think more in depth about game changes have a greater say than those who don't care to look past the basics of balance? Look at the Spy poll. Aside from those who just posted "No" and left, most of the arguments for "No" were misguided, based on inaccuracies and flimsy logic. for example, :Mafia is already OP" was a common one, and so was "Spy would be powerless without chat". Clearly untrue. I saw maybe three people who posted good and factual arguments for Spy not getting changed, and that's it. However, almost every post for "Yes" was informed, clear, and based on facts and sound logic. Yet most people probably didn't even look at, or think about the arguments for changing it.

I, for one, greatly hope that BMG doesn't put up another game-wide poll.