Religious Discussion

[James2]

Like the one we had last year, this is intended to be a thread for discussion and asking questions. It's likely inevitable that it will turn into a debate/argument, but please try to keep things civil. Remember that it's very unlikely that other participants in this thread will be convinced to change their minds, but that it is entirely possible for people to reach a deeper understanding of the beliefs of others. Also remember that if anyone is convinced by arguments made in this thread, it will likely be spectators to the arguments, not the other participants.

In order to provide for more fruitful discussion, I invite participants to provide a treatise or essay (whether you write it yourself or use one written by someone else does not matter) describing the distinctive worldview associated with their religion. Ideally this should be reasonably short (10-20 pages), but also subdivided for easy reference by those who lack the time or interest to read the whole thing. I will cite an essay written by a blogger I sometimes read. It's a bit hyperbolic at points, but overall a good read and a good overview of the Catholic outlook:

Spoiler: https://bonald.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/thecatholicperspective.pdf

Chapter 1: Escape from Subjectivity (p. 1-4)
-What Do You Say Catholics Have Too Much Of? (p. 1-2)
-What Do You Say Catholics Have Too Little Of? (p. 2)
-Against Spirituality (p. 3)
-Public Meanings (p. 3-4)
-Catholic Authenticity (p. 4)
Chapter 2: The Sign of the Cross (p. 5-7)
-The Central Dogmatic Claim (p. 5)
-Man’s Alienation from God (p. 5-6)
-Sacrifice (p. 6-7)
Chapter 3: The Sacramental Life (p. 8-9)
-Symbolism: The Objective Element of the Sacraments (p. 8-9)
-Faith: The Subjective Element of the Sacraments (p. 9)
Chapter 4: Vows (p. 10-13)
-A Sacred Vow Gives Form to a Life. (p. 10)
-Marriage and Ordination Are Gifts That Enlarge the Soul. (p. 10-11)
-Marriage and the Wisdom of Recklessness (p. 11)
-Career as Modernity’s Replacement for Marriage (p. 11-12)
-The Priesthood Is Not a Job. (p. 12)
-Religious life: A Deliberate Scandal to the Worldly (p. 12-13)
Chapter 5: Moral Rules (p. 13-15)
-Morality Cannot Be Reduced to Intentions and Consequences (p. 13)
-Man the Symbol-Bearer; Inviolability of Human Life (p. 14)
-Sexual Purity (p. 14)
-Social Justice (p. 14-15)
Chapter 6: Last Things (p. 15-16)
-Being Towards Judgement (p. 15-16)
-The Ascent of Mount Purgatory (p. 16)

If you have any questions about Catholicism, or if you want to post about your own religion or ask questions of others who've posted, go ahead. My PM box is also open if you don't want to ask your question in public.

[James2]

This may help with keeping the discussion fruitful and civil:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method

[James2]

There are multiple disjointed threads on religious topics right now, so I figured we could do for a unified religious discussion thread. The last one ended nearly 7 months ago.

[James2]

That user has no posts.

If you mean the one from last year, it's better imo to have a new one, since bumping that one would just revive the specific arguments that were ongoing when it ended (also I think necrobumping other people's threads is against the rules).

[chitownmvp01]

My family's Jewish, but I'm Atheist. I don't believe in God.

[NDM]

Christianity is just a Jewish heresy by a guy who came out of a coma.
Change my mind.

[Gobln]

Christianity is just a Jewish heresy by a guy who came out of a coma.
Change my mind.

sounds kind of anti-Semitic

[NDM]

Christianity is just a Jewish heresy by a guy who came out of a coma.
Change my mind.

sounds kind of anti-Semitic

How is that anti-Semintic, when I am Jewish?

Christianity is just a Jewish heresy by a guy who came out of a coma.
Change my mind.

Jesus actually came for the Jews and you can find Jesus' name all through the old testament. Not to mention that Jesus was criminal number one. They made sur ehe was dead before they put him in that tomb.

Found a site where his name was removed to keep the Christians from killing Jews. It stated he was hung on the eve of Passover. And even if that were the case, Jews don't crucify or really hang. Stoning is more common. Even than, he is only mentioned as, and I quote this, his Hebrew name, the only name known, Yeshu of Nazarene. Second word I cannot confirm or deny if the same as his.

Also, to annoy even more, Daniel stated that a false prophet will happen. Who changes the Torah, and leads the world to worship a false God. And caused Jews to be killed and exile. From the Mishneh Torah.

[NDM]

To answer that question, the Hebrew word for salvation is Yeshua. Yeshua is Jesus' name in the Hebrew tongue. In the Old testament, and the Hebrew Bible; every time the Lord's salvation is spoken of, the name of Jesus is spoken.

You do know most Hebrew names are named after figures/common prayer words, right? Like my Hebrew name is that of a Kohen. Eli. Does that mean every time you learn of him, it is me? No, it just means, that it is a Hebrew word.

[NDM]

To answer that question, the Hebrew word for salvation is Yeshua. Yeshua is Jesus' name in the Hebrew tongue. In the Old testament, and the Hebrew Bible; every time the Lord's salvation is spoken of, the name of Jesus is spoken.

You do know most Hebrew names are named after figures/common prayer words, right? Like my Hebrew name is that of a Kohen. Eli. Does that mean every time you learn of him, it is me? No, it just means, that it is a Hebrew word.

You know that your Hevrew Bible is full of prophecies fortelling the Messiah, correct? Are you aware that Jesus fulfilled all of those?

Was he, by father, related to David? Did he bring all Jews to Israel? Did he become the king, and a military leader?

[NDM]

To answer that question, the Hebrew word for salvation is Yeshua. Yeshua is Jesus' name in the Hebrew tongue. In the Old testament, and the Hebrew Bible; every time the Lord's salvation is spoken of, the name of Jesus is spoken.

You do know most Hebrew names are named after figures/common prayer words, right? Like my Hebrew name is that of a Kohen. Eli. Does that mean every time you learn of him, it is me? No, it just means, that it is a Hebrew word.

You know that your Hevrew Bible is full of prophecies fortelling the Messiah, correct? Are you aware that Jesus fulfilled all of those?

Was he, by father, related to David? Did he bring all Jews to Israel? Did he become the king, and a military leader?

He was in the family of David , it didn't have to be by father. Yes. He has. Or is doing so right now. Yes. He did. Right now he sits on the right hand of the throne of God, which will be given to him at the wedding supper of the lamb, and he commands ten thousand legions of Angels.

It must be in life. And Jewish custom is by the father. Well, Jewish law is. Your tribe is passed by father to son, daughters get their fathers until their kids, which gain their husbands. That is how Jews trace family.

[NDM]

To answer that question, the Hebrew word for salvation is Yeshua. Yeshua is Jesus' name in the Hebrew tongue. In the Old testament, and the Hebrew Bible; every time the Lord's salvation is spoken of, the name of Jesus is spoken.

You do know most Hebrew names are named after figures/common prayer words, right? Like my Hebrew name is that of a Kohen. Eli. Does that mean every time you learn of him, it is me? No, it just means, that it is a Hebrew word.

You know that your Hevrew Bible is full of prophecies fortelling the Messiah, correct? Are you aware that Jesus fulfilled all of those?

Was he, by father, related to David? Did he bring all Jews to Israel? Did he become the king, and a military leader?

He was in the family of David , it didn't have to be by father. Yes. He has. Or is doing so right now. Yes. He did. Right now he sits on the right hand of the throne of God, which will be given to him at the wedding supper of the lamb, and he commands ten thousand legions of Angels.

It must be in life. And Jewish custom is by the father. Well, Jewish law is. Your tribe is passed by father to son, daughters get their fathers until their kids, which gain their husbands. That is how Jews trace family.

And Mary was of the family of David when she gave birth ti Jesus. Since she was not married. And where does it say these things had to be fulfilled in life?

To be the Messiah, you must be alive to lead. And can you confirm her being direct line to the throne, which I think was men only?

[NDM]

Jesus died. And you have to be able to pass it along. Without a father, he would not be of the House of David. He has to have a father of the house. That is how Jewish life works. And the Messiah must not be a demigod or god, and alive to lead. Not dead. Because, and I quote, "Jesus died for our sins."

[NDM]

Jesus died. And you have to be able to pass it along. Without a father, he would not be of the House of David. He has to have a father of the house. That is how Jewish life works. And the Messiah must not be a demigod or god, and alive to lead. Not dead. Because, and I quote, "Jesus died for our sins."

And then came back. Alive is alive. You seem to be finding a lot of Messianic rules that have no biblical backing. If Jesus had no earthly father, he would inherit his mother's family name. That's how life works everywhere.

Not Jewish law. You get your father's. Without a father, I do not think you get the family name, but just the tribe. And if he came back and shit, he still died. Also, Messianic? You mean, the type of Jews no other Jews say are Jews?

[Dodowarrior44]

1) There are thousands of religions
2) There are even more subsets of religions
3) There are even more religions that do not exist anymore
4) There are even more religions that will exist
5) In total, there are probably millions of religions that will ever exist (#1, #2, #3, #4)
6) If we chose even one subset wrong, we will most likely burn in hell
7) We cannot chose religions that do not exist yet
8) Even if the religion does not exist yet, we will still be damned to hell (#6 and #7)
9) Popularity =/= correctness (#3 and #4)
10) Therefor, just because a religion is popular now (Catholicism, Shiism, Sunnism, Lutheran, Pastafarianism) or popular in the past (Chalcedonianism, Arianism, Zoroastrianism, Aztec Religion, Animism, Ashurism) doesn't mean it is true (#9)
11) Remember, our immortal lives are on the line here! We must make the right choice out of millions!
12) Assuming 1 million religions will ever exist, we have only an 0.0001% chance of not burning in hell
13) However, if 33% of religions are lost today and 33% do not exist yet (VERY LOW ESTIMATES), we will only have an 0.00006% chance
14) 0.00000006 inches (% -> decimal) is less than the size of a virus. This is a ridiculously small number.
15) Therefor, we are most likely screwed.

[Dodowarrior44]

Unless, of course, science is right and this whole thing is silly.

[chitownmvp01]

Unless, of course, science is right and this whole thing is silly.

Yeah I believe that science is right.

[ARandomDouche]

Unless, of course, science is right and this whole thing is silly.

Yeah I believe that science is right.

I believe science builds up everything. Well, this is actually pretty obvious. However, have you considered why our universe functions the way it does and not something else that doesn't apply to our universe, or that Earth just so happened to be the perfect place for life in an empty, vast medium? Here's why, it has 3 letters.

[Dodowarrior44]

Unless, of course, science is right and this whole thing is silly.

Yeah I believe that science is right.

I believe science builds up everything. Well, this is actually pretty obvious. However, have you considered why our universe functions the way it does and not something else that doesn't apply to our universe, or that Earth just so happened to be the perfect place for life in an empty, vast medium? Here's why, it has 3 letters.

The Earth is NOT a perfect place. EX: The sun can cause cancer, flooding, volcanoes, ETC.. Would a non-sociopathic (eg. the Christian God) ever do this? No.

[NDM]

Unless, of course, science is right and this whole thing is silly.

Yeah I believe that science is right.

I believe science builds up everything. Well, this is actually pretty obvious. However, have you considered why our universe functions the way it does and not something else that doesn't apply to our universe, or that Earth just so happened to be the perfect place for life in an empty, vast medium? Here's why, it has 3 letters.

The Earth is NOT a perfect place. EX: The sun can cause cancer, flooding, volcanoes, ETC.. Would a non-sociopathic (eg. the Christian God) ever do this? No.

The Jewish one too. As a Jew, HE FLOODED THE WHOLE WORLD. And he also called for the deaths of all the women and kids of a kingdom. And sheep and cows, can't forget those.

[Dodowarrior44]

Unless, of course, science is right and this whole thing is silly.

Yeah I believe that science is right.

I believe science builds up everything. Well, this is actually pretty obvious. However, have you considered why our universe functions the way it does and not something else that doesn't apply to our universe, or that Earth just so happened to be the perfect place for life in an empty, vast medium? Here's why, it has 3 letters.

The Earth is NOT a perfect place. EX: The sun can cause cancer, flooding, volcanoes, ETC.. Would a non-sociopathic (eg. the Christian God) ever do this? No.

The Jewish one too. As a Jew, HE FLOODED THE WHOLE WORLD. And he also called for the deaths of all the women and kids of a kingdom. And sheep and cows, can't forget those.

So now we have three options.
1)

1) There are thousands of religions
2) There are even more subsets of religions
3) There are even more religions that do not exist anymore
4) There are even more religions that will exist
5) In total, there are probably millions of religions that will ever exist (#1, #2, #3, #4)
6) If we chose even one subset wrong, we will most likely burn in hell
7) We cannot chose religions that do not exist yet
8) Even if the religion does not exist yet, we will still be damned to hell (#6 and #7)
9) Popularity =/= correctness (#3 and #4)
10) Therefor, just because a religion is popular now (Catholicism, Shiism, Sunnism, Lutheran, Pastafarianism) or popular in the past (Chalcedonianism, Arianism, Zoroastrianism, Aztec Religion, Animism, Ashurism) doesn't mean it is true (#9)
11) Remember, our immortal lives are on the line here! We must make the right choice out of millions!
12) Assuming 1 million religions will ever exist, we have only an 0.0001% chance of not burning in hell
13) However, if 33% of religions are lost today and 33% do not exist yet (VERY LOW ESTIMATES), we will only have an 0.00006% chance
14) 0.00000006 inches (% -> decimal) is less than the size of a virus. This is a ridiculously small number.
15) Therefor, we are most likely screwed.

this is correct, and a religion we haven't discovered yet / humanity forgot about / only a handful of people still practice it today is the correct one. (Examples being: Ancient Egyptians, Zoroastrianism, Ahurism, Bon, Muism, Whatever future religions there are). In this scenario we are all screwed.

2) An Abrahamic religion is correct and we have a sociopathic murdering god who supports incest and pedos. In this scenario we are all screwed because if Judaism or Islam is correct, we are giving women rights and if Christianity is correct, we are not churching and we have tatoos.

3) Atheism/science is correct and there is no god, we are just random bags of nuerons. In this scenario, after we die we are just nothing, kind of like sleeping. This is the depressing scenario.

4) There is some future/past religion that is correct where the god wants anyone who is not a murderer to be in eternal happiness. This is the only happy outcome.

EDIT:

5) Buddhism, Taoism or some other 'go with the flow' religion is correct. In this scenario, results vary. If there is reincarnation we are screwed, because odds are we'll hit a population cieling or never learn about the correct religion. If not, the outcome is the same as #4.

[DestroyerR225]

To answer that question, the Hebrew word for salvation is Yeshua. Yeshua is Jesus' name in the Hebrew tongue. In the Old testament, and the Hebrew Bible; every time the Lord's salvation is spoken of, the name of Jesus is spoken.

Actually, not accurate. Yeshuah in Hebrew has the letter ‘heh’ (ה) at the end of it, while Jesus’s name doesn’t. Plus, the Torah was waaaaaaaaaay before the Old Testament and Jesus’s name is nowhere in it. Way to go taking the reworked-to-fit-Christian-belief version of the Torah, there.

[DestroyerR225]

To answer that question, the Hebrew word for salvation is Yeshua. Yeshua is Jesus' name in the Hebrew tongue. In the Old testament, and the Hebrew Bible; every time the Lord's salvation is spoken of, the name of Jesus is spoken.

You do know most Hebrew names are named after figures/common prayer words, right? Like my Hebrew name is that of a Kohen. Eli. Does that mean every time you learn of him, it is me? No, it just means, that it is a Hebrew word.

You know that your Hevrew Bible is full of prophecies fortelling the Messiah, correct? Are you aware that Jesus fulfilled all of those?

Was he, by father, related to David? Did he bring all Jews to Israel? Did he become the king, and a military leader?

Don’t forget ending all wars and building the third Temple. Jesus is dead, so he can’t do that.

[NDM]

To answer that question, the Hebrew word for salvation is Yeshua. Yeshua is Jesus' name in the Hebrew tongue. In the Old testament, and the Hebrew Bible; every time the Lord's salvation is spoken of, the name of Jesus is spoken.

Actually, not accurate. Yeshuah in Hebrew has the letter ‘heh’ (ה) at the end of it, while Jesus’s name doesn’t. Plus, the Torah was waaaaaaaaaay before the Old Testament and Jesus’s name is nowhere in it. Way to go taking the reworked-to-fit-Christian-belief version of the Torah, there.

I forgot the heh letter ending bullshit. Though I spell it as hey, like it is said.

And for your other points with the Messiah. I think building the Third Temple goes along with the being king and stuff. And for the wars, Christianity has caused more wars.

[ARandomDouche]

Unless, of course, science is right and this whole thing is silly.

Yeah I believe that science is right.

I believe science builds up everything. Well, this is actually pretty obvious. However, have you considered why our universe functions the way it does and not something else that doesn't apply to our universe, or that Earth just so happened to be the perfect place for life in an empty, vast medium? Here's why, it has 3 letters.

The Earth is NOT a perfect place. EX: The sun can cause cancer, flooding, volcanoes, ETC.. Would a non-sociopathic (eg. the Christian God) ever do this? No.

Of course, the Earth is not fucking perfect. That's obvious. I can't deny its conditions is perfect for life, it's still a bad place just to live in general. You may believe in Science, I believe God isn't the benign and forgiving entity all other Christians believe.