Forcing a draw in a no win situation

[cshizzle]

Say it's 2v1v1

2 Townies (non killing roles)
1 Mafia
1 Serial Killer

Often times town will just give up, and hand the win over to either the SK or the mafia. However, if they were more clever they could force a draw.

Town should tell the SK if he kills town, the remaining townie will side with the mafia.
Town should tell the mafia if he kills town, the remaining townie will side with the SK.

Neither mafia nor SK should attack a townie otherwise they will lose, so the game will end in a draw.

[SalemDK82]

The big problem with this strat is that you need 3 other people with functioning brains for this to work. I have tried to do this a few times but even if I have the other townie working with me one of the killers or both of them wouldn't understand the situation and would just kill a townie (or both).

In high elo this should always work tho. Even if one of the killers is trying to act like a townie, town loses if they vote anyone up anyway so no reason to lynch anyone.

[cshizzle]

The big problem with this strat is that you need 3 other people with functioning brains for this to work. I have tried to do this a few times but even if I have the other townie working with me one of the killers or both of them wouldn't understand the situation and would just kill a townie (or both).

In high elo this should always work tho. Even if one of the killers is trying to act like a townie, town loses if they vote anyone up anyway so no reason to lynch anyone.

I just tried this strategy and the SK killed me. My townie teammate refused to punish the SK though because "that role is harder to win".

SIGHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Mathelete]

The big problem with this strat is that you need 3 other people with functioning brains for this to work. I have tried to do this a few times but even if I have the other townie working with me one of the killers or both of them wouldn't understand the situation and would just kill a townie (or both).

In high elo this should always work tho. Even if one of the killers is trying to act like a townie, town loses if they vote anyone up anyway so no reason to lynch anyone.

I just tried this strategy and the SK killed me. My townie teammate refused to punish the SK though because "that role is harder to win".

SIGHHHHHHHHHHHHH

And that's why the SK didn't take that threat seriously, cause they knew the town was not going to follow up on it.

[Tharok]

This assumes that both killers would rather draw than take a loss, this will not always be the case.

[Mathelete]

This assumes that both killers would rather draw than take a loss, this will not always be the case.

Technically, you have to prefer a draw to a loss because if you don't it's gamethrowing. But the real question is, will the town follow up on the threat? It's not a guaranteed loss, so the killers might take the risk in hopes of winning.

[Tharok]

But, it really shouldn't be gamethrowing, so I could see how somebody would ignore that.

[cshizzle]

But, it really shouldn't be gamethrowing, so I could see how somebody would ignore that.

Why shouldn't it be gamethrowin?. IMO if you aren't attempting for the best possible outcome it SHOULD be gamethrowing.

[TigerWolf85]

If I am the SK in this scenario I would attack a Townie anyway. If the remaining town sides with the Mafia so be it. It's hard enough to win as SK to not try to win when you have an opportunity like that and if you lose its only -1 elo.

[Tharok]

Because nobody likes draws, draws might as well be a waste of everybody's time if they can be prevented.

[cshizzle]

Because nobody likes draws, draws might as well be a waste of everybody's time if they can be prevented.

That is just a weak strategy. If you are in a situation where you can't win under any circumstances, a draw is like a victory.

[Tharok]

No, it isn't. A draw is not a victory. Period. Also, the situation you describe outlines a situation in which there is a chance of victory for either side, so it isn't "you can't win under any circumstances," no matter how much your weak claim suggests it is.

[James2]

But, it really shouldn't be gamethrowing, so I could see how somebody would ignore that.

Why shouldn't it be gamethrowin?. IMO if you aren't attempting for the best possible outcome it SHOULD be gamethrowing.

Outside of ranked, a draw is the same as a loss.

[Tharok]

Outside of ranked, a draw is the same as a loss.

Good point, James. I am not talking about ranked at all. In the game modes that I play, a draw is a waste of time and people would rather see the game come to a conclusion than just have everyone win.

[James2]

Personally I would go for the draw (TANSTAAFL and all). But it's absurd to require seeking a draw over a loss.

[cshizzle]

No, it isn't. A draw is not a victory. Period. Also, the situation you describe outlines a situation in which there is a chance of victory for either side, so it isn't "you can't win under any circumstances," no matter how much your weak claim suggests it is.

Yes, a draw isn't a win, but it's much better than a loss. I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I find myself EXTREMELY PUZZLED to how you can possibly prefer a loss over a draw? That makes absolutely no sense to me if you are a serious player.

Even if YOU don't care, I'm sure your teammates would rather have 0 ELO opposed to negative ELO.

Again, I supposed we are close to exhausting the issue, but I just can't understand you prefering a loss over a draw.

[Tharok]

Oh, you are one of those stupid people who only discusses ranked in every single thing.

I am going to direct you back to what James said.

Then, add that a draw is worse than a loss because it means that everyone has now wasted their time seeking a nonexistent conclusion.

I don't understand why you came back a week later just to insist that you are right about everything. Kind of a lame reason to start the discussion again.

[Mathelete]

I actually consider a draw to be a half win. Think of it like chess. A loss is 0 points, a win is 1 point, and a draw is 1/2 point.

[James2]

I actually consider a draw to be a half win. Think of it like chess. A loss is 0 points, a win is 1 point, and a draw is 1/2 point.

This is only true of ranked. Outside of ranked a draw is equivalent to a loss.

[Mathelete]

I actually consider a draw to be a half win. Think of it like chess. A loss is 0 points, a win is 1 point, and a draw is 1/2 point.

This is only true of ranked. Outside of ranked a draw is equivalent to a loss.

How? Doesn't a draw actually count as a draw in your win-loss-draw count? The only time it doesn't is if there was an exe or jester who won, in which case it's not actually a draw (the game incorrectly says it's a draw but it's not).

[Tharok]

Because outside of ranked nobody really cares about their win-loss-draw count.

[cshizzle]

I don't understand why you came back a week later just to insist that you are right about everything. Kind of a lame reason to start the discussion again.

Maybe I waited a week to respond because I have an actual job and a life outside of Town of Salem? I'd advise you to do the same. Not all of us have the luxury of checking these forums 5 times per day.

Since you failed to make a cogent point, I'm going to make this VERY simple for you. Win > draw > loss. If you prefer a loss over a draw you are a gamethrower. People like you ruin the game for everybody else.

[cshizzle]

This is only true of ranked. Outside of ranked a draw is equivalent to a loss.

False!

A draw is a tie, a loss is a loss. What fucked up logic did you use to come to the conclusion that they are equal?

[James2]

You get the exact same merit points for a draw as for a loss.

[Tharok]

Maybe I waited a week to respond because I have an actual job and a life outside of Town of Salem? I'd advise you to do the same. Not all of us have the luxury of checking these forums 5 times per day.

Since you failed to make a cogent point, I'm going to make this VERY simple for you. Win > draw > loss. If you prefer a loss over a draw you are a gamethrower. People like you ruin the game for everybody else.

You are obviously the biggest asshole on the forums. You clearly waited a week because you thought you wouldn't get a response. I'd advise you to be less of a complete dick, maybe you won't be completely wrong as often.

You failed to make a cogent point dipshit. All your saying is "win>draw>loss" without saying anything to back it up. ON TOP OF THAT, your arguments have been bitch slapped multiple times. Allow me to REPEAT why you are wrong ONCE AGAIN, A DRAW means everybody loses because they have wasted their time doing something that didn't change anything from whence they started. No, people like you ruin the game for everyone else. Not only because you shove your shitty opinions down people's throats, but you can't even argue without being a bitch about it. Plain and simple.