Electrician Role

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

Electrician Role

Postby goldtrotter » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:52 pm

THIS ROLE HAS BEEN REWORKED. PLEASE SEE THIS THREAD: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=94447

Role Name: Electrician


Role Alignment: Neutral Killing


Abilities:
The Electrician uses a powerful ray gun to kill their victims. Their ray gun has 4 levels of attack.

Level 1: Basic Attack (starting level)
Level 2: Powerful Attack
Level 3: Unstoppable Attack
Level 4: Unstoppable Rampaging Attack

At night, the Electrician can choose to attack or power up their ray gun. If they choose to power up their ray gun, their attack will increase by one level. Every time they successfully kill someone, their level will reset back to Level 1. However, if they attack someone but are roleblocked or something, their level will not reset.


Attributes: Basic Defense.


Goal: Kill all who should oppose you.


Win Conditions: Same as Serial Killer, except they cannot win with Serial Killer.


Additional Information: Nothing else.
Last edited by goldtrotter on Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:12 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Electrician Role

Postby Chemist1422 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:11 pm

This is just an SK if it makes its best play, which is attacking every night

Otherwise its kpn is too low
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Re: Electrician Role

Postby goldtrotter » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:18 pm

Chemist1422 wrote:This is just an SK if it makes its best play, which is attacking every night

Otherwise its kpn is too low


They don't attack Escort or Jailor like SK, and stuff like that. However, I was thinking, to make it even more different then the Serial Killer, their defense status can be changed to Basic Defense until attacked, just like the Witch.

EDIT: I also had the idea that if they are witched, their attack level will raise by one automatically, but this would have to be limited somehow, such as it only happening the first time, or only happening on full moon nights, or something like that.
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Re: Electrician Role

Postby DragonClaw66 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:12 pm

Chemist is right; if it attacks every night it's a Serial Killer and if it uses the charing ability, it becomes a lot weaker because its KPN dips too low. Not counterattacking the Escort or Jailor is also a nerf in a way because it can be prevented from killing entirely.
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Re: Electrician Role

Postby goldtrotter » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:21 pm

DragonClaw66 wrote:Chemist is right; if it attacks every night it's a Serial Killer and if it uses the charing ability, it becomes a lot weaker because its KPN dips too low. Not counterattacking the Escort or Jailor is also a nerf in a way because it can be prevented from killing entirely.


What is KPN?
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Re: Electrician Role

Postby Bluedetroyer » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:29 pm

goldtrotter wrote:
DragonClaw66 wrote:Chemist is right; if it attacks every night it's a Serial Killer and if it uses the charing ability, it becomes a lot weaker because its KPN dips too low. Not counterattacking the Escort or Jailor is also a nerf in a way because it can be prevented from killing entirely.


What is KPN?

Kill(s) per night
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Re: Electrician Role

Postby goldtrotter » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:33 pm

Bluedetroyer wrote:
goldtrotter wrote:
DragonClaw66 wrote:Chemist is right; if it attacks every night it's a Serial Killer and if it uses the charing ability, it becomes a lot weaker because its KPN dips too low. Not counterattacking the Escort or Jailor is also a nerf in a way because it can be prevented from killing entirely.


What is KPN?

Kill(s) per night


That is supposed to be the tradeoff.
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Re: Electrician Role

Postby DragonClaw66 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:38 pm

goldtrotter wrote:
Bluedetroyer wrote:
goldtrotter wrote:
DragonClaw66 wrote:Chemist is right; if it attacks every night it's a Serial Killer and if it uses the charing ability, it becomes a lot weaker because its KPN dips too low. Not counterattacking the Escort or Jailor is also a nerf in a way because it can be prevented from killing entirely.


What is KPN?

Kill(s) per night


That is supposed to be the tradeoff.

A more powerful attack isn't worth less KPN.
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Re: Electrician Role

Postby goldtrotter » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:12 pm

DragonClaw66 wrote:
goldtrotter wrote:
Bluedetroyer wrote:
goldtrotter wrote:
DragonClaw66 wrote:Chemist is right; if it attacks every night it's a Serial Killer and if it uses the charing ability, it becomes a lot weaker because its KPN dips too low. Not counterattacking the Escort or Jailor is also a nerf in a way because it can be prevented from killing entirely.


What is KPN?

Kill(s) per night


That is supposed to be the tradeoff.

A more powerful attack isn't worth less KPN.


Well, what one could do is either be a Serial Killer and attack every night, or a Werewolf and attack every other night, charging in between. But perhaps with this thinking, the level 2 attack should also rampage? However, beyond Level 2 it wouldn't be worth it most of the time, that is correct.

Hmm, what do you think of this modification?:
Level 1: Basic Attack to one person
Level 2: Powerful Rampaging Attack
Level 3: Unstoppable Attack to one person
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Re: Electrician Role

Postby DragonClaw66 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:46 pm

goldtrotter wrote:
DragonClaw66 wrote:
goldtrotter wrote:
Bluedetroyer wrote:
goldtrotter wrote:
DragonClaw66 wrote:Chemist is right; if it attacks every night it's a Serial Killer and if it uses the charing ability, it becomes a lot weaker because its KPN dips too low. Not counterattacking the Escort or Jailor is also a nerf in a way because it can be prevented from killing entirely.


What is KPN?

Kill(s) per night


That is supposed to be the tradeoff.

A more powerful attack isn't worth less KPN.


Well, what one could do is either be a Serial Killer and attack every night, or a Werewolf and attack every other night, charging in between. But perhaps with this thinking, the level 2 attack should also rampage? However, beyond Level 2 it wouldn't be worth it most of the time, that is correct.

Hmm, what do you think of this modification?:
Level 1: Basic Attack to one person
Level 2: Powerful Rampaging Attack
Level 3: Unstoppable Attack to one person

That basically gives it the choice of being the Serial Killer, Werewolf, or Serial Killer with an unstoppable attack. Now it's too similar to two Neutral Killings. I really don't think that you can change the role in a beneficial way.
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Re: Electrician Role

Postby goldtrotter » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:52 pm

DragonClaw66 wrote:
goldtrotter wrote:
DragonClaw66 wrote:
goldtrotter wrote:
Bluedetroyer wrote:
goldtrotter wrote:
DragonClaw66 wrote:Chemist is right; if it attacks every night it's a Serial Killer and if it uses the charing ability, it becomes a lot weaker because its KPN dips too low. Not counterattacking the Escort or Jailor is also a nerf in a way because it can be prevented from killing entirely.


What is KPN?

Kill(s) per night


That is supposed to be the tradeoff.

A more powerful attack isn't worth less KPN.


Well, what one could do is either be a Serial Killer and attack every night, or a Werewolf and attack every other night, charging in between. But perhaps with this thinking, the level 2 attack should also rampage? However, beyond Level 2 it wouldn't be worth it most of the time, that is correct.

Hmm, what do you think of this modification?:
Level 1: Basic Attack to one person
Level 2: Powerful Rampaging Attack
Level 3: Unstoppable Attack to one person

That basically gives it the choice of being the Serial Killer, Werewolf, or Serial Killer with an unstoppable attack. Now it's too similar to two Neutral Killings. I really don't think that you can change the role in a beneficial way.



What if I left it as it was in the original post, but made it a mafia member instead? So it would be like an independent mafioso who could power up their attacks over time, but would be able to kill independently of the mafioso/godfather.
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Re: Electrician Role

Postby Chemist1422 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:52 pm

goldtrotter wrote:
DragonClaw66 wrote:
goldtrotter wrote:
DragonClaw66 wrote:
goldtrotter wrote:
Bluedetroyer wrote:
goldtrotter wrote:
DragonClaw66 wrote:Chemist is right; if it attacks every night it's a Serial Killer and if it uses the charing ability, it becomes a lot weaker because its KPN dips too low. Not counterattacking the Escort or Jailor is also a nerf in a way because it can be prevented from killing entirely.


What is KPN?

Kill(s) per night


That is supposed to be the tradeoff.

A more powerful attack isn't worth less KPN.


Well, what one could do is either be a Serial Killer and attack every night, or a Werewolf and attack every other night, charging in between. But perhaps with this thinking, the level 2 attack should also rampage? However, beyond Level 2 it wouldn't be worth it most of the time, that is correct.

Hmm, what do you think of this modification?:
Level 1: Basic Attack to one person
Level 2: Powerful Rampaging Attack
Level 3: Unstoppable Attack to one person

That basically gives it the choice of being the Serial Killer, Werewolf, or Serial Killer with an unstoppable attack. Now it's too similar to two Neutral Killings. I really don't think that you can change the role in a beneficial way.



What if I left it as it was in the original post, but made it a mafia member instead? So it would be like an independent mafioso who could power up their attacks over time, but would be able to kill independently of the mafioso/godfather.

That just adds to mafia KP, which is kinda OP.
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Re: Electrician Role

Postby goldtrotter » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:54 pm

Then it could be these levels instead:

Level 1: No Attack
Level 2: Basic Attack
Level 3: Powerful Attack

So every time they attack, they must wait a night to attack again.
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Re: Electrician Role

Postby goldtrotter » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:55 pm

See above.
Last edited by goldtrotter on Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Electrician Role

Postby Chemist1422 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:55 pm

Still adds to mafia KP. This role is too weak to be an NK but too powerful to be part of a faction.
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Re: Electrician Role

Postby goldtrotter » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:58 pm

Chemist1422 wrote:Still adds to mafia KP. This role is too weak to be an NK but too powerful to be part of a faction.


It would kind of be similar to an Ambusher. Ambusher has a chance of killing an extra town but may not. Electrician cannot attack as often. And Ambusher did not break the game. However, thinking along the lines of Ambusher, maybe whoever the Electrician kills will know who the Electrician is?
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Re: Electrician Role

Postby Chemist1422 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:59 pm

That pretty much makes it a 1 for 1 trade. Ambusher is not considered a balanced role by most members of the community.
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Re: Electrician Role

Postby goldtrotter » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:08 pm

Chemist1422 wrote:That pretty much makes it a 1 for 1 trade. Ambusher is not considered a balanced role by most members of the community.


1 for 1 trade with Ambusher? But they still kill in different ways just like the Ambusher and Mafioso kill in different ways. Also, why is Ambusher not considered balanced? Adding extra kill power to the mafia is not necessarily a bad thing as long as you can limit it. With Ambusher, it would be unwise to ambush anyone besides who the Godfather/Mafioso is killing, and many times when doing so, I have not ambushed many people at all. On the Coven weekend alone, I could count on my fingers how many times I ambushed someone during that time span (and I played a ton of Coven games that weekend).

Also, another possibility for Electrician levels:
Level 1: No Attack
Level 2: Basic/Powerful Attack
Level 3: Basic/Powerful Rampaging Attack
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Re: Electrician Role

Postby Chemist1422 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:14 pm

goldtrotter wrote:
Chemist1422 wrote:That pretty much makes it a 1 for 1 trade. Ambusher is not considered a balanced role by most members of the community.


1 for 1 trade with Ambusher? But they still kill in different ways just like the Ambusher and Mafioso kill in different ways. Also, why is Ambusher not considered balanced? Adding extra kill power to the mafia is not necessarily a bad thing as long as you can limit it. With Ambusher, it would be unwise to ambush anyone besides who the Godfather/Mafioso is killing, and many times when doing so, I have not ambushed many people at all. On the Coven weekend alone, I could count on my fingers how many times I ambushed someone during that time span (and I played a ton of Coven games that weekend).

Also, another possibility for Electrician levels:
Level 1: No Attack
Level 2: Basic/Powerful Attack
Level 3: Basic/Powerful Rampaging Attack

I mean having the role out itself when it kills is pretty much a 1 for 1 trade.
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Re: Electrician Role

Postby goldtrotter » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:11 pm

Chemist1422 wrote:
goldtrotter wrote:
Chemist1422 wrote:That pretty much makes it a 1 for 1 trade. Ambusher is not considered a balanced role by most members of the community.


1 for 1 trade with Ambusher? But they still kill in different ways just like the Ambusher and Mafioso kill in different ways. Also, why is Ambusher not considered balanced? Adding extra kill power to the mafia is not necessarily a bad thing as long as you can limit it. With Ambusher, it would be unwise to ambush anyone besides who the Godfather/Mafioso is killing, and many times when doing so, I have not ambushed many people at all. On the Coven weekend alone, I could count on my fingers how many times I ambushed someone during that time span (and I played a ton of Coven games that weekend).

Also, another possibility for Electrician levels:
Level 1: No Attack
Level 2: Basic/Powerful Attack
Level 3: Basic/Powerful Rampaging Attack

I mean having the role out itself when it kills is pretty much a 1 for 1 trade.


They all kill differently though. Ambusher kills one random visitor, Godfather/Mafioso kill by choosing someone, Electrican is required to power up after every attack, and because of this delay has the potential to do more damage then any other mafia role.
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Re: Electrician Role

Postby Chemist1422 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:12 pm

goldtrotter wrote:
Chemist1422 wrote:
goldtrotter wrote:
Chemist1422 wrote:That pretty much makes it a 1 for 1 trade. Ambusher is not considered a balanced role by most members of the community.


1 for 1 trade with Ambusher? But they still kill in different ways just like the Ambusher and Mafioso kill in different ways. Also, why is Ambusher not considered balanced? Adding extra kill power to the mafia is not necessarily a bad thing as long as you can limit it. With Ambusher, it would be unwise to ambush anyone besides who the Godfather/Mafioso is killing, and many times when doing so, I have not ambushed many people at all. On the Coven weekend alone, I could count on my fingers how many times I ambushed someone during that time span (and I played a ton of Coven games that weekend).

Also, another possibility for Electrician levels:
Level 1: No Attack
Level 2: Basic/Powerful Attack
Level 3: Basic/Powerful Rampaging Attack

I mean having the role out itself when it kills is pretty much a 1 for 1 trade.


They all kill differently though. Ambusher kills one random visitor, Godfather/Mafioso kill by choosing someone, Electrican is required to power up after every attack, and because of this delay has the potential to do more damage then any other mafia role.

Which makes it a lot more powerful than any other mafia role. The role is OP as mafia but UP as NK and doesn't work in a ToS environment. It's not a good role.
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Re: Electrician Role

Postby goldtrotter » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:22 pm

Chemist1422 wrote:
goldtrotter wrote:
Chemist1422 wrote:
goldtrotter wrote:
Chemist1422 wrote:That pretty much makes it a 1 for 1 trade. Ambusher is not considered a balanced role by most members of the community.


1 for 1 trade with Ambusher? But they still kill in different ways just like the Ambusher and Mafioso kill in different ways. Also, why is Ambusher not considered balanced? Adding extra kill power to the mafia is not necessarily a bad thing as long as you can limit it. With Ambusher, it would be unwise to ambush anyone besides who the Godfather/Mafioso is killing, and many times when doing so, I have not ambushed many people at all. On the Coven weekend alone, I could count on my fingers how many times I ambushed someone during that time span (and I played a ton of Coven games that weekend).

Also, another possibility for Electrician levels:
Level 1: No Attack
Level 2: Basic/Powerful Attack
Level 3: Basic/Powerful Rampaging Attack

I mean having the role out itself when it kills is pretty much a 1 for 1 trade.


They all kill differently though. Ambusher kills one random visitor, Godfather/Mafioso kill by choosing someone, Electrican is required to power up after every attack, and because of this delay has the potential to do more damage then any other mafia role.

Which makes it a lot more powerful than any other mafia role. The role is OP as mafia but UP as NK and doesn't work in a ToS environment. It's not a good role.


That is why I weakened the levels though to the following 2 possibilities.

Scenario A
Level 1: No Attack
Level 2: Basic/Powerful Attack
Level 3: Basic/Powerful Rampaging Attack

Scenario B
Level 1: No Attack
Level 2: Basic Attack
Level 3: Powerful Attack

In Scenario A, the Electrician is like a non-rampaging Werewolf with the ability to rampage at the same attack level if they power up for an extra day. In Scenario B, they are like a Mafioso who can only kill on full moons with the ability to do an even more powerful attack if they power up for an extra day. By comparing it directly to existing roles, you can see how these 2 versions in Scenario A and B are balanced.

EDIT: Also, in both scenarios, the Electrician can only surpass other attack levels by one but it requires more waiting.
Last edited by goldtrotter on Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Electrician Role

Postby Chemist1422 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:23 pm

Okay but that doesn't make the concept any less flawed
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Re: Electrician Role

Postby goldtrotter » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:25 pm

Chemist1422 wrote:Okay but that doesn't make the concept any less flawed


Depends on what you think the concept is. The concept as I see it is a role that can get more powerful over time, but it is a temporary effect, much like charging a ray gun would be like.
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Re: Electrician Role

Postby Chemist1422 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:26 pm

goldtrotter wrote:
Chemist1422 wrote:Okay but that doesn't make the concept any less flawed


Depends on what you think the concept is. The concept as I see it is a role that can get more powerful over time, but it is a temporary effect, much like charging a ray gun would be like.

What I see the concept as, right now, is an additional mafia killing role OR an NK with <1 KPN, both of which are flawed concepts.
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