Planned Werewolf Changes

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Planned Werewolf Changes

Postby Achilles » Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:00 am

I have been reading what everyone is saying about the Werewolf and I agree with some statements. The two I agree with the most are:

1) Werewolf can be killed on non-full moon nights which kind of sucks
2) Werewolf wins with Sk/Mafia/Arso but tends to kill them a lot and all of those roles will gladly lynch the Werewolf to avoid dying to him so its counter productive

Comments:
1) I like the idea of the Werewolf being vulnerable when he isn't transformed. I think it is an interesting game mechanic that will force Werewolves to want to kill off Vigilantes, Mafia and SerialKillers first. The Werewolf isn't 100% vulnerable like the Mafioso, so it's still better than nothing.

2) This one I agree is a problem. The reason the win conditions were designed this way was because of the full moon being every 3rd night, you could end up in a Town vs Werewolf situation where the WW may only kill off 1 Town member every 3 days.

Proposed changes:
Change the full moon nights to be every other night (n2, n4, n6, n8).

With the Werewolf having night immunity 50% of the time it will mean less deaths, as well as more opportunity to target and kill off the other roles that can kill you.

With the Werewolf being able to kill much more often I think it will be more acceptable for the Werewolf to only win with neutrals. If the Werewolf ends up being the last killing role left alive against 4 Town members he will definitely have to use his wits to stall the Town long enough to kill them off, but maybe that's okay?

What do you guys think?
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Re: Planned Werewolf Changes

Postby Arckas » Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:10 am

I think that having him immunity every other day sounds great, but again evils would want the werewolf dead and can easily kill him the night he's not transformed. It doesn't really stop the problem in where evils still want the werewold dead.


Since he has more chances to kill this time around, it makes him more suitable as having the win conditions of a neutral killing. What are your thoughts on that?
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Re: Planned Werewolf Changes

Postby Achilles » Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:04 am

Achilles wrote:With the Werewolf being able to kill much more often I think it will be more acceptable for the Werewolf to only win with neutrals. If the Werewolf ends up being the last killing role left alive against 4 Town members he will definitely have to use his wits to stall the Town long enough to kill them off, but maybe that's okay?


Neutrals meaning Survivor, Witch, Amn. So yeah going to change the win condition as well.
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Re: Planned Werewolf Changes

Postby Arckas » Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:12 am

Achilles wrote:
Achilles wrote:With the Werewolf being able to kill much more often I think it will be more acceptable for the Werewolf to only win with neutrals. If the Werewolf ends up being the last killing role left alive against 4 Town members he will definitely have to use his wits to stall the Town long enough to kill them off, but maybe that's okay?


Neutrals meaning Survivor, Witch, Amn. So yeah going to change the win condition as well.

Well the only neutrals that truly matter, since all the others don't exactly have to choose the werewolf to win is the serial killer and the arsonist.

Amnesiac would turn into something by that point.
Survivor doesn't need to pick werewolf, and any chance to end the game and win he should take it.
Successful execution doesn't need to choose werewolf.
Jester just needs to get lynched. This I can see helping the werwolf.
Witch can choose team neutral or team mafia.

The only to roles that would welcome, welcome being a loose term, are the serial killer and the arsonist.
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Re: Planned Werewolf Changes

Postby Invenio » Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:21 am

It feels like it will have the same win rate as the arsonist with those changes.
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Re: Planned Werewolf Changes

Postby Arckas » Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:35 am

What about this, and correct me if I'm missing something.

Along with being able to win with neutrals, the werewolf can also win by himself. Should the neutral killing all die, he does not immediately lose.
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Re: Planned Werewolf Changes

Postby Achilles » Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:42 am

Arckas wrote:What about this, and correct me if I'm missing something.

Along with being able to win with neutrals, the werewolf can also win by himself. Should the neutral killing all die, he does not immediately lose.


Correct. If it's 5 Town vs Werewolf the WW can still win.
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Re: Planned Werewolf Changes

Postby Achilles » Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:44 am

Invenio wrote:It feels like it will have the same win rate as the arsonist with those changes.


Possibly. I think the biggest problem with the arsonist is that by round 5 or 6 it is possible that 4 or 5 of the people you have doused already died another way.
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Re: Planned Werewolf Changes

Postby chitownmvp01 » Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:57 am

I agree with these changes! Can't wait to see them!
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Re: Planned Werewolf Changes

Postby Arckas » Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:44 pm

When will these be implemented if they haven't already?
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Re: Planned Werewolf Changes

Postby Santa07 » Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:42 pm

Fully support these changes
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Re: Planned Werewolf Changes

Postby chitownmvp01 » Wed Nov 12, 2014 3:23 pm

DoctorX wrote:I still think it should kill every 3 nights. Its too OP only every 2 nights
Maybe when it kills every 3 nights, the night before the full moon can be a day of "semi-transformation" where the werewolf will be immune, but it cannot kill yet, since it hasnt fully transformed


On average, if the full moon is every 3 nights, WW will kill at least 2 people
If every 2: Kill at least 3 people

I find that every 3 nights can be a bit underpowered. Unless you think that it can win with Mafia and other neutrals cancels that out?
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Re: Planned Werewolf Changes

Postby Sopo » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:33 pm

I'll test out the changes and see what I think. Thanks for listening to the feedback. :D
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Re: Planned Werewolf Changes

Postby theelfoflorien » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:43 pm

I have a suggestion about the Full moon thing, is it possible to maybe speed up the full moons? say after Such and Such day (Like day 4-10) The full moon come a day earlier, so it goes from 3 nights earlier on to 2 nights late game.
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Re: Planned Werewolf Changes

Postby Toshiro46 » Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:22 pm

Actually, that is a good idea. Arso and Werewolf should both win with SK, because both of them are way too hard to win as alone. This actually won't change much in game, as they can all still kill each other, and they often will. Werewolf can kill both of the others, SK can kill WW and find Arso by immunity (death note after that), and arso can burn both of them. But what it'll mean is that assuming they don't kill each other, they'll have a better chance.
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Re: Planned Werewolf Changes

Postby Santa07 » Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:01 am

Toshiro46 wrote:Actually, that is a good idea. Arso and Werewolf should both win with SK, because both of them are way too hard to win as alone. This actually won't change much in game, as they can all still kill each other, and they often will. Werewolf can kill both of the others, SK can kill WW and find Arso by immunity (death note after that), and arso can burn both of them. But what it'll mean is that assuming they don't kill each other, they'll have a better chance.

Arso? Hard winning alone? I disagree - Arso is easy if you know how to use it.
And the latest ww buff makes it fine
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Re: Planned Werewolf Changes

Postby Gobln » Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:05 pm

Seems good.

Arsonist-Can kill multiple in one night but has to set up.
Serial Killer-Can kill only one target but no setting up required.
Werewolf-Can kill multiple people in one night with no set up but has 50% immunity.
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Re: Planned Werewolf Changes

Postby Kinsley » Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:02 am

DoctorX wrote:
DoctorX wrote:I still think it should kill every 3 nights. Its too OP only every 2 nights
Maybe when it kills every 3 nights, the night before the full moon can be a day of "semi-transformation" where the werewolf will be immune, but it cannot kill yet, since it hasnt fully transformed


I still insist on the above

I like the idea of werewolf allying with the neutrals (sk/arso) but however I think it shouldn't be able to ally with the mafia. Mafia shouldnt get a second killing
I also DISAGREE with arsonist allying with sk! Sk and arsonist must be enemies, because otherwise it will get WAY TOO hard for the town


Agreed. Sk and arsonists were never meant to side with each other in the first place.

A werewolf alone standing against 4 town would be difficult enough to wait every other night. Waiting for 3 nights would just be near impossible. However, I'm not sure about the WW siding with Sks or arsos, if we're considering that the WW can't win with mafia. Neutrals evils/benigns and the WW siding with one another is one thing, but I've never heard of a story about a WW teaming up with Sks/Arsos.
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Re: Planned Werewolf Changes

Postby chitownmvp01 » Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:59 pm

Does the Werewolf still win with Mafia in the PTR or is that changed? Somebody in the chat told me that it only wins with other neutrals now. Is that true?
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Re: Planned Werewolf Changes

Postby Arckas » Sun Nov 30, 2014 12:10 am

chitownmvp01 wrote:Does the Werewolf still win with Mafia in the PTR or is that changed? Somebody in the chat told me that it only wins with other neutrals now. Is that true?

It should only win with mafia from what they said they were going to change it too.
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Re: Planned Werewolf Changes

Postby chitownmvp01 » Sun Nov 30, 2014 12:22 am

Arckas wrote:
chitownmvp01 wrote:Does the Werewolf still win with Mafia in the PTR or is that changed? Somebody in the chat told me that it only wins with other neutrals now. Is that true?

It should only win with mafia from what they said they were going to change it too.


What's the exact role card for it?
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Re: Planned Werewolf Changes

Postby Arckas » Sun Nov 30, 2014 12:24 am

chitownmvp01 wrote:
Arckas wrote:
chitownmvp01 wrote:Does the Werewolf still win with Mafia in the PTR or is that changed? Somebody in the chat told me that it only wins with other neutrals now. Is that true?

It should only win with mafia from what they said they were going to change it too.


What's the exact role card for it?

Haven't played in PTR and gotten werewolf in quite awhile.
Though it says right here.
Achilles wrote:With the Werewolf being able to kill much more often I think it will be more acceptable for the Werewolf to only win with neutrals.
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Re: Planned Werewolf Changes

Postby chitownmvp01 » Sun Nov 30, 2014 12:49 am

I'll take a screenshot the next time I get the Werewolf.
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