Swordsworth wrote:Kmenx wrote:ALSO I AM DIAMOND 1 BOIS
I guess that makes me Wood 5
melanora wrote:I'm reporting all of you. Nelly is going to rise from her grave and backhand you all.
orangeandblack5 wrote:melanora wrote:I'm reporting all of you. Nelly is going to rise from her grave and backhand you all.
We actually all got a talking to from Naru and Jerme
melanora wrote:orangeandblack5 wrote:melanora wrote:I'm reporting all of you. Nelly is going to rise from her grave and backhand you all.
We actually all got a talking to from Naru and Jerme
Since you can still post here, they went easy on you.
tazar wrote:Developers are blind and deaf to hear what the experienced players are trying to say.
They have literally zero idea how their game works you can see by their clueless posts.
They are trying to push their half-arsed bug fix of a bug that never existed in the first place.
Instead of listening to what the community wants they push this.. whatever this abomination is.
But sure go ahead keep listening to players with a hundred games instead of the ones with thousands of games played.
I'll watch and laugh when you realize your new system fails miserably because problems will worsen as time goes on.
Just an example:
Everyone who drops to 1k elo will get matched with 0 elo players and since ur 1k elo above em u will keep losing till you go all the way down. No way getting out of elo hell with your GREAT NEW SYSTEM.
High elos will queue at the same time and will inflate eachothers elo(bcuz of discord queues) to the point where they are impossible to catch up to.
But actually im not sure if there will be a discord queue because a few people are dumb enough to start grinding elo all over again.
So good luck finding idiots to play ranked and keep ruining your game you are doing an awesome job.
We will be giving out Legacy Season rewards depending on your Elo bracket.
rickms wrote:tazar wrote:Developers are blind and deaf to hear what the experienced players are trying to say.
We are listening to every word. Not agreeing with you does not mean we are not listening.They have literally zero idea how their game works you can see by their clueless posts.
They are trying to push their half-arsed bug fix of a bug that never existed in the first place.
ELO is a thing. It has math behind it. Our implementation of the ELO algorithm was wrong. So to say there was never a bug in the first place is factually incorrect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_systemInstead of listening to what the community wants they push this.. whatever this abomination is.
But sure go ahead keep listening to players with a hundred games instead of the ones with thousands of games played.
I'll watch and laugh when you realize your new system fails miserably because problems will worsen as time goes on.
We have a responsibility to all players to create an enjoyable and fair ranked system, not just the < 1% of players that are 2k+Just an example:
Everyone who drops to 1k elo will get matched with 0 elo players and since ur 1k elo above em u will keep losing till you go all the way down. No way getting out of elo hell with your GREAT NEW SYSTEM.
The bug is what created 0 and very low ELO players to begin with. The ELO calculation for the losing players was broken. It was subtracting too much for low ELO players and too little for high ELO players. This fix should prevent anyone from getting to extremely low ELOs, thus impacting those queued with them less.High elos will queue at the same time and will inflate eachothers elo(bcuz of discord queues) to the point where they are impossible to catch up to.
If the ELO system is working correctly then this should lead to high elo players being evenly matched, with the cream of the crop rising to the top.But actually im not sure if there will be a discord queue because a few people are dumb enough to start grinding elo all over again.
Fundamental misunderstanding of ELO. You should NOT be able to grind it. That's not the intent of any rating system. Playing more should not, inherently raise your ELO. Beating evenly matched/better opponents should.
If you were say 2200 as town and lost to 1800 average opponents. Then again at 2200 as town and won against 1800 average opponents. As it was before the net change for the 2200 team and 1800 team was 0. This is incorrect ELO calculation. The 2200 team should have lost ELO. They drew a 2 game series against an inferior opponent. The 1800 team should have gained because they drew against a superior opponent.
2k + users had minimal risk in losing ELO to lower ranked players before, with that lower ranked user facing large losses if they lost to that same team.So good luck finding idiots to play ranked and keep ruining your game you are doing an awesome job.
Please keep it constructive.
alex1234321 wrote:Also, can BMG release the new algorithm? I'm just curious about the math behind it.
rickms wrote:tazar wrote:Developers are blind and deaf to hear what the experienced players are trying to say.
We are listening to every word. Not agreeing with you does not mean we are not listening.They have literally zero idea how their game works you can see by their clueless posts.
They are trying to push their half-arsed bug fix of a bug that never existed in the first place.
ELO is a thing. It has math behind it. Our implementation of the ELO algorithm was wrong. So to say there was never a bug in the first place is factually incorrect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_systemInstead of listening to what the community wants they push this.. whatever this abomination is.
But sure go ahead keep listening to players with a hundred games instead of the ones with thousands of games played.
I'll watch and laugh when you realize your new system fails miserably because problems will worsen as time goes on.
We have a responsibility to all players to create an enjoyable and fair ranked system, not just the < 1% of players that are 2k+Just an example:
Everyone who drops to 1k elo will get matched with 0 elo players and since ur 1k elo above em u will keep losing till you go all the way down. No way getting out of elo hell with your GREAT NEW SYSTEM.
The bug is what created 0 and very low ELO players to begin with. The ELO calculation for the losing players was broken. It was subtracting too much for low ELO players and too little for high ELO players. This fix should prevent anyone from getting to extremely low ELOs, thus impacting those queued with them less.High elos will queue at the same time and will inflate eachothers elo(bcuz of discord queues) to the point where they are impossible to catch up to.
If the ELO system is working correctly then this should lead to high elo players being evenly matched, with the cream of the crop rising to the top.But actually im not sure if there will be a discord queue because a few people are dumb enough to start grinding elo all over again.
Fundamental misunderstanding of ELO. You should NOT be able to grind it. That's not the intent of any rating system. Playing more should not, inherently raise your ELO. Beating evenly matched/better opponents should.
If you were say 2200 as town and lost to 1800 average opponents. Then again at 2200 as town and won against 1800 average opponents. As it was before the net change for the 2200 team and 1800 team was 0. This is incorrect ELO calculation. The 2200 team should have lost ELO. They drew a 2 game series against an inferior opponent. The 1800 team should have gained because they drew against a superior opponent.
2k + users had minimal risk in losing ELO to lower ranked players before, with that lower ranked user facing large losses if they lost to that same team.So good luck finding idiots to play ranked and keep ruining your game you are doing an awesome job.
Please keep it constructive.
LRyuzakiL wrote:Tazar is correct. You aren't listening to your good players, youre listening to amateurs who don't know what they are talking about.
The fact that you are mentioning "beating evenly matched/better opponents should raise ELO" proves youre still clueless about ELO. The biggest problem, by far, with the ELO system is the way it works with difference in ELOs. If a high elo player loses when the average ELO of the other players is less, his elo crashes. If a low elo player wins with the average ELO being higher, high elo skyrockets. In case you don't see the problem, I''ll spell it out.
If someone with high ELO (lets say 2500) is playing a game in which the average ELO is about 1400, and he loses, his ELO crashes. It will easily go down 10+ points a game. He doesn't deserve that because if his teammates are about 1400 ELO and don't play right. This past weekend, I went down about 100 ELO in 10 games because every fucking game, town was absolute trash. They refused to vote people up without "proof". They thought VFR favored evils, even with town was low on numbers. Jailor wouldn't exe NE claims, thinking "its a waste of an exe." Mediums were claiming GF in fake whispers that everyone could see. I couldn't do shit to make my team win because my teammates were horribly incompetent and my ELO crashed. I was one of the few competent townies and I was punished the most for the loss? Thats absurd. On the flip side, trash noobs, such as the ones stated above, can easily get carried by high ELO teammates (when the majority aren't idiots) and their ELO can skyrocket while they do nothing to earn it.
Having this apply to just "teams" doesn't work either. Lets say town has 4 good players averaging 2400 ELO and 5 noobs averaging 1300 ELO. Their average ELO is 1788. Lets say the evils are averaging 1500 elo. Theyre above the noobs but below the good players. When town ELO is compared to evils, they are higher by 288. The system records this as "town being better" and will harshly punish town if they lose. Now, 4 good players can't do jack shit when the other 5 townies say ignorant shit like "dont vote without proof" or fake claim to be Ne so "maf doesnt hit them" or some other stupid bullshit. 4 good players cannot carry town to a win if the other 5 players do not cooperate because of their ignorance. Jailors refusing to execute ne claims, Ti not coming forward with important results, people refusing to claim on stand, etc will prevent those 4 good players from leading the town to a win. ELO is NEVER going to work with a comparison of ELO factored in for the simple fact that the game is collective and even just 1 bad townie can totally throw the game, meanwhile that 1 bad townie barely drags down the average ELO and the ELO system sees the town as "better."
If you want to argue that ELO in general is not a good rating system for ToS, that's an entirely different discussion than the one that's being had here, which is the now correct implementation of the ELO system.
Granted, this doesn't happen much, except for when the game has updates or when there aren't many people online (in which case, this crap happens constantly). However, there is still a problem. High ELO players can be very strategic, creative, anti-meta, etc to scrape out a tough win with Nk and get +1 for it, which is total nonsense. High players have no room to move up if every win is a +1 and every loss is a -10. Noobs cant help but go up if every win is a +10 and every loss is a -1. High level players are not getting the ELO they deserve to move even further from low elo players, and low elo players are inevitably gaining ELO they shouldn't have.
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